Morphology Search Does Not Work
I cannot perform morphological searches in the NT or in the Hebrew OT. I think this may have something to do with my options in
the drop-down box next to "morphology." The only option that available is "Greek Morphology (GRAMCORD)." The only option in the "Bible" drop-down
box is "LXX." However, morphological searches always come up empty even when I search the LXX for specific verb conjugations.
Is there an update that I need? Perhaps for searching "Logos
morphology?"
Thanks
Comments
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Sorry about that--I just noticed that half of my post was cut off.
I am unable to perform morphological searches in the NT or in
the Hebrew OT. I think this may have something to do with my options in
the drop-down box next to "morphology." The only option that it has is
"Greek Morphology (GRAMCORD)." The only option in the "Bible" drop-down
box is "LXX." However, morphological searches always come up empty even
when I search the LXX for specific verb conjugations.
Is there an update that I need? Perhaps for searching "Logos
morphology?"0 -
What library package do you have eg. Leader's, Scholar's?
What Hebrew/Greek bibles do you have?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I have Scholar's Library, but I got it a long time ago (1999). I only recently upgraded to Libronix 3. Here are the Bibles I'm trying to search:
Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia :
With Westminster Hebrew Morphology. electronic ed. Stuttgart; Glenside PA:
German Bible Society; Westminster Seminary, 1996, c1925; morphology c1991.Nestle Aland 26th Edition Greek New Testament
Morphological Edition: Black, Matthew, Carlo M. Martini, Bruce M. Metzger, and Allen Wikgren. The
Greek New Testament. electronic ed. of the 3rd ed. (Corrected). Federal
Republic of Germany: United Bible Societies, 1997, c1982.Septuaginta : With Morphology.
electronic ed. Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1979; Published in
electronic form by Logos Research Systems, 1996.0 -
Try the resource update below as I suspect you have lsf/lsx format files when you need Libronix format (lbxlls):-
http://www.logos.com/media/update/ResourceAutoUpdate.lbxupd
An Upgrade to a newer package will also get some more resources - see http://www.logos.com/ - but this might also involve upgrading to Logos Bible Software 4. You might want to discuss the options with Customer Service or Sales.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Try the resource update below as I suspect you have lsf/lsx format files when you need Libronix format (lbxlls):-
http://www.logos.com/media/update/ResourceAutoUpdate.lbxupd
An Upgrade to a newer package will also get some more resources - see http://www.logos.com/ - but this might also involve upgrading to Logos Bible Software 4. You might want to discuss the options with Customer Service or Sales.
I agree. You probably need the lbxlls resources. If the <Tools | Libronix Update> doesn't do the trick, you can download directly from the Logos ftp site -- ftp://ftp.logos.com/lbxbooks will have the files you need.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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The update did the trick! I had to expand it to "optional updates," and select the resources separately.
Thank you both! You just changed my life!
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Hey, I just got a new computer, and I'm having the same problem. I updated my resources, but I'm getting a result of "0" every time I search for a result by entering in something under "lemma," then pressing enter in a morphological search. Can anyone help me?
Thanks!
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After you enter a lemma, you have to press "Add to Search" and then the Search button. Is this what you are doing?
Are you getting the same selection of resources for the Morphology as before, and setting an appropriate range eg. NT for a Greek lemma. It might help if you posted a screen shot.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Ryan Armstrong said:
Hey, I just got a new computer, and I'm having the same problem. I updated my resources, but I'm getting a result of "0" every time I search for a result by entering in something under "lemma," then pressing enter in a morphological search. Can anyone help me?
Thanks!
It would be difficult to help without more information. Can you give an example of a failed search ?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Sure.
I have Libronix 3.0.
I click "search"-->"Hebrew Morphological Search"
I click on the "Lemma" box and type חדש. Several options come up in the box below.
I choose "month; New Moon חֹדֶש". Then "חֹדֶש" appears in the "lemma" box, followed by n #1 (WTS) in the next box.
I click "Add to search". The following appears in the "search" box: [חֹדֶשׁ{n #1 (WTS)}=]
The other options are marked as follows:
Return: Verses
Bibles: All Resources of specified morphology
Morphology: Hebrew Morphology (Westminster)
Range: Old Testament/Tanakh Gen-Mal
I click "search."
The search results appear in a window, with "" at the top. It says, "0 verses, There were no results for this search"
I experimented with several different words, and I was able to find different verb forms of "Renew, חדש." I searched for a verb, 1st person plural, Piel, and got results. I don't know what's going wrong.
Thank you!
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Ryan Armstrong said:
I click "search"-->"Hebrew Morphological Search"
I click on the "Lemma" box and type חדש. Several options come up in the box below.
I choose "month; New Moon חֹדֶש". Then "חֹדֶש" appears in the "lemma" box, followed by n #1 (WTS) in the next box.
I click "Add to search". The following appears in the "search" box: [חֹדֶשׁ{n #1 (WTS)}=]
The other options are marked as follows:
Return: Verses
Bibles: All Resources of specified morphology
Morphology: Hebrew Morphology (Westminster)
Range: Old Testament/Tanakh Gen-Mal
I click "search."
The search results appear in a window, with "" at the top. It says, "0 verses, There were no results for this search"
When I do the same as you state you do, I get 284 occurences. It seems you have a problem with the program. Perhaps you might try redownloading the program. It also works in L4 though I get 283 occurences there.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ryan Armstrong said:
Bibles: All Resources of specified morphology
Morphology: Hebrew Morphology (Westminster)
If you click Bibles with above Morphology what BHS bibles are listed?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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The only BHS Bible listed is BHS (WTS) | Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (Westminster)
In the drop-down menu, I see an NA27 and LXX, as well.
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Thank you for your help.
Should I just uninstall it completely and then erase everything? I've tried running updates for both the program and the resources, and it says it's completely up to date.
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Ryan Armstrong said:
Thank you for your help.
Should I just uninstall it completely and then erase everything? I've tried running updates for both the program and the resources, and it says it's completely up to date.
Before you do that, tell me what package do you have ? I need to know that you have a package which supports morphological searching.
You can run PurgeLDLS.bat to remove the program. This should not remove your resources. After that you can re-install.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I have Scholar's Library, but it's the 1999 edition. I installed it on my computer before this, and it ran morphological searches fine, once I updated the old Logos Library files. I don't know why it's suddenly not working on this one.
Thank you.
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I ran PurgeLDLS.bat; uninstalled and rebooted, then downloaded the software again.
I'm still getting the same results.
Does it have to do with my sources?
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Our tools for working with Greek and Hebrew have come a LONG way since 1999. I highly recommend upgrading. It's not just that the databases have gotten better (they have), but the level of support for searching and linking to lexicons and so on is vastly improved with the newer data sets. I'm positive that the data types have changed enough since 1999 that even if you could get some searches to work against those old versions, others would fail. I'm sure that isn't what you want to hear, but I think you'll be impressed with how far things have come in eleven years.
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I appreciate you all for thinking through these issues. I understand how that might explain some issues, but I don't see how that could be my situation now, for two reasons:
1. I'm not using any software from 1999. Yes, that's when I purchased the program, but I'm using Libronix 3.0, downloaded from the website, and all of my .LSF files have been upgraded to .lbxlls.
2. As far as I can remember, I was able to perform these kinds of searches until just a few weeks ago.
You can see that I posted above in this thread, and that my situation was fixed when I upgraded my files to .lbxlls. When I got a new computer, I didn't transfer my old files. I just installed them from the disc and then upgraded them with the link posted above in this thread.
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Ryan Armstrong said:
I appreciate you all for thinking through these issues. I understand how that might explain some issues, but I don't see how that could be my situation now, for two reasons:
1. I'm not using any software from 1999. Yes, that's when I purchased the program, but I'm using Libronix 3.0, downloaded from the website, and all of my .LSF files have been upgraded to .lbxlls.
2. As far as I can remember, I was able to perform these kinds of searches until just a few weeks ago.
You can see that I posted above in this thread, and that my situation was fixed when I upgraded my files to .lbxlls. When I got a new computer, I didn't transfer my old files. I just installed them from the disc and then upgraded them with the link posted above in this thread.
Apparently you're using an older version of the BHS Morph. You need to get BHS with Westminster Morphology 4.2. You should also get NA27.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ryan Armstrong said:
1. I'm not using any software from 1999.
Sure, those files were re-compiled at some point, but the underlying databases were not changed - you're still working from 11 year old data with all its limitations, even if it was re-packaged for some backwards compatibility in 2006 (or whenever your build date is). The BHSMORPH file you're working from, for example, is the Westminster 2.0 database. The Westminster 3.5 was released from WTS on June 20, 2001, and the current version we ship is the 4.2 (with the 4.14 now in preparation). So regardless of the timestamps on your files, the databases are very old. I'm not trying to pull one over on you.
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Ryan Armstrong said:
Notice the 'n #1 (WTS)' that is indicating a homograph number used to distinguish between two words are spelled the same but have a different meaning, because the Westminster lemma list you are choosing words from was based on the 4.2 data, which supports homograph distinction. Your old version did not (you can tell this simply by right clicking on one of these words - you won't see any numbers as part of the 'lemma' options). You might still be able to run searches off right clicking the word you want to find all occurrences of, or maybe by typing in the lemma without picking a form from the list, but I don't know. I don't have the old file lying around to try it. You really are missing out on significant improvements by sticking with such old data.
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Thank you very much. This is really helpful information. I've been looking at the updates.
1. I couldn't find an update to LXX. Is there one?
2. Both NA27 and BHS WTS 4.0 are $100 each! Neither one will let me pay a smaller fee to upgrade from the level I have. That's a bit steep for a struggling PhD student--especially when the only thing I'm paying for is more detailed searches. Do you know what the discount will be like at SBL?
3. Do they allow you to search for two words occurring withing the same verse, or within X number of words from each other?
[4. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this, and I don't mind if you delete this post] Why are these resources nearly twice the price of the competitors? I'd love to stay with Logos. It's been a great program for me for a long time, and I like supporting the home team (I'm from the Seattle area), but if I have to pay full price for an upgrade anyway, then I'm going to have to weigh my options. The only advantage that I could see from staying with Logos would be if there was an upgrade discount instead of starting from scratch. I'd be interested in hearing what you think.
Again, I appreciate your help.
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Thank you Vincent. You're right, I am able to search by right-clicking, and by entering the "lemma." I can also perform much of the morphological searches on verbs. That's part of what confused me.
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Ryan Armstrong said:
Thank you very much. This is really helpful information. I've been looking at the updates.
1. I couldn't find an update to LXX. Is there one?
2. Both NA27 and BHS WTS 4.0 are $100 each! Neither one will let me pay a smaller fee to upgrade from the level I have. That's a bit steep for a struggling PhD student--especially when the only thing I'm paying for is more detailed searches. Do you know what the discount will be like at SBL?
3. Do they allow you to search for two words occurring withing the same verse, or within X number of words from each other?
[4. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this, and I don't mind if you delete this post] Why are these resources nearly twice the price of the competitors? I'd love to stay with Logos. It's been a great program for me for a long time, and I like supporting the home team (I'm from the Seattle area), but if I have to pay full price for an upgrade anyway, then I'm going to have to weigh my options. The only advantage that I could see from staying with Logos would be if there was an upgrade discount instead of starting from scratch. I'd be interested in hearing what you think.
Again, I appreciate your help.
I suggest that you contact a Logos representative by phone. You may be able to get L4 for little cost with what you need. Jared Bryant is the one with whom I have worked. I should warn you that there will be something of a learning curve involved in switching from L3 to L4.
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Ryan Armstrong said:
1. I couldn't find an update to LXX. Is there one?
The old LXX you have is from a very early version of the CCAT data. The latest CCAT data is very nice, but we don't have a license to that directly. So we created our own morphological database for the LXX that uses the Logos Greek Morphology. The latest CCAT data IS included in the SESB 3.0 package from the German Bible Society (which uses Logos/Libronix and integrates with all our other tools). The SESB package, BTW, also contains the critical apparatuses for the LXX, Vulgate, BHS, NA27 and the BHQ fascicles. It's actually a pretty impressive collection for the price, though the Hebrew Bible and related WIVU Syntax Search tool hasn't been completely updated for Logos 4 yet (you can always run those tools through Libronix 3 in the meantime) [Edit: The WIVU syntax search might only be part of the full edition, at least if the web copy is up to date].
Ryan Armstrong said:2. Both NA27 and BHS WTS 4.0 are $100 each!
I know that Westminster 3.5 customers have the option of upgrading to the 4 series for a mere $10. You'd have to call sales to see what they could do for you upgrading from version 2.0. Generally when we come out with new base packages, we have pretty reasonable upgrade or 'cross-grade' prices for folk who want to be working on the latest data, but it can be tough to accommodate upgrades that have skipped many major release cycles. But I'm not in sales, and they might be able to work out something that works for you.
Those $100 prices aren't really what we typically sell these databases for. Almost everyone gets their databases as part of one of the base packages like Scholar's Library. We sell them a la carte if people want them, but we're more interested in having folk see what an integrated library can do than to have a product that's just one database.
Ryan Armstrong said:3. Do they allow you to search for two words occurring withing the same verse, or within X number of words from each other?
Yes, with a minor qualification. Libronix 3's 'WITHIN X WORDS' syntax used character counts to estimate the number of words that could occur. Usually when you're doing that sort of search, you're casting a wide net anyway, so an estimate approach is fine, but for people who then count the intervening words, it can be a bit confusing as to why a particular verse showed up - you might say 'WITHIN 4 WORDS' and something within 5 words makes it through because each of the words was small, so it was inside the character count. The Logos 4 syntax search interface (which uses the Andersen-Forbes database) does allow very precise handling of segment counts (and I mean segments, not words - what does 'word' even mean for Hebrew? Is 'bereshit' one 'word' or two? Graphically it is one item, but lexically it is two. The Logos 4 Syntax search counts by lexical segment).
Ryan Armstrong said:4. .. Why are these resources nearly twice the price of the competitors
Like I said, we're more about selling the base packages that get you tools for the Greek NT, Hebrew Bible, LXX and all sorts of other tools for one low price. You might look at the Original Languages Library, the smallest collection that has the tools you're looking for, though it doesn't contain the Westminster database, it will have Andersen-Forbes and all the syntax search materials as well as the Logos LXX, and you can ask sales about what they can do for a Westminster upgrade if you still want the latest of that database as well (and as much as I love the advanced search capabilities of AF and the accompanying phrase graphs to visualize syntax, for more mundane tasks, I really like the Westminster database).
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Thank you. I appreciate your time and your quick responses. I'll try to call a rep this weekend and figure out my budget. You've been very helpful.
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Glad to help.
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