Has Letter to Romans been studied at secular law schools?
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Bob said:David Paul said:Bob said:
Thanks, I know where you stand now.
Bob
Kinda sorta, I suppose, but not really. Care to explain how "being led by" and "openly defying" can share the same space? Keep it philosophical rather than theological if you like...if you can.
No thanks. I know where you stand. That‘s fine with me.
BobWell, I asked because I honestly don't get where you stand, so I thought an explanation might help. Oddly and ironically enough, though, I have now come to know where you stand, too.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Good. We understand where each of of stands. No problem.
Bob
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I apologize for the mis-pronunciation.
Bob0 -
David Paul said:
Paulus was an astoundingly bad exegete on many levels.
I'm always surprised when we agree ... maybe statistically it's unavoidable. Being a member of the Literal Denomination (separate the Writings from 'stands'/later-doctrines), I think (?) I'm pretty opposite your takes, especially in the jewish Bible.
https://www.logos.com/product/168013/echoes-of-scripture-in-the-letters-of-paul
I just found this one. It's (very) slow going ... the gentleman seems to select each word choice carefully, so demanding 'why'. But it starts out in the same opinion as yours ... that acceptance of bouncy Pauline exegesis demands a later theology(s).
Ironically it's from Yale. Maybe the author is a theology-lawyer. Smiling.
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Are you able to advise which Schaefer book this Udo Middleman quote was derived?
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David Paul said:Bob said:David Paul said:
Paulus was an astoundingly bad exegete on many levels.
Wasn‘t Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
Bob
I don't think Paul was a bad exegete. I think Paul (being Jewish and a Pharisee) took a more midrashic approach to interpreting and applying scripture, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Neither the ancient writers nor the Holy Spirit are obligated to abide by our modern and western standards of what constitutes good vs. bad interpretation. And there are different approaches to interpretation even in our context so why wouldn't there be in Paul's?
As for Acts, I do believe Paul was let by the Spirit to go to Jerusalem (Acts 20:22) and the prophets were warning him by the Spirit that he would face hardship there. The Spirit also warns Paul he would face hardship (Acts 20:23). We just had this discussion in a Bible study at my church. Is it possible that they were all hearing from the Spirit about Paul's impending imprisonment but had come to different conclusions about what Paul should do about it? The prophets heard rightly from the Spirit about imprisonment but they weren't privy to everything Paul had already heard from both the Spirit and Jesus himself.
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Kiyah said:
I don't think Paul was a bad exegete. I think Paul (being Jewish and a Pharisee) took a more midrashic approach to interpreting and applying scripture, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Neither the ancient writers nor the Holy Spirit are obligated to abide by our modern and western standards of what constitutes good vs. bad interpretation. And there are different approaches to interpretation even in our context so why wouldn't there be in Paul's?
From the above cited book ('Echos'), the author breaks the issues into 5 groups (you'd be in #3 and 5, I assume):
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DMB said:Kiyah said:
I don't think Paul was a bad exegete. I think Paul (being Jewish and a Pharisee) took a more midrashic approach to interpreting and applying scripture, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Neither the ancient writers nor the Holy Spirit are obligated to abide by our modern and western standards of what constitutes good vs. bad interpretation. And there are different approaches to interpretation even in our context so why wouldn't there be in Paul's?
From the above cited book ('Echos'), the author breaks the issues into 5 groups (you'd be in #3 and 5, I assume):
Great discussion. I've added this book to my wishlish. Too bad it's not in a bundle or a base package <shakes fist at Faithlife>.
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I heard Stanford law school 100 years ago had Romans as required reading. My how times have changed. Probably couldn't even find a bible there now let alone required reading.
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don wright said:
I heard Stanford law school 100 years ago had Romans as required reading
Welcome to the forums ... and please don't be misled by our OT rabbit trails. The forums are actually for the discussion of FaithLife software products and electronic resources.
I don't buy into hearsay evidence but the history of the Stanford Law school (founded in 1893) notes that it was 1600 years after the initial law education (Roman law) Roman Legal Education - A Companion to Ancient Education - Wiley Online Library. I would suggest that there is a bit of urban legend floating around here bolstered by a misunderstanding of the reference to "Roman". BTW I don't buy into speculative evidence either, even when it is my own.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I went to Law School as well, and certainly it was never mentioned when I was there. Of course, what I COULD see (you know, in times past before everyone got all "Separation of Church and State!" (which is quite funny since this is Canada, not the US...) would be some Christian teacher bringing Romans into his classes as an example of good argumentation. From there of course, it can only get turned into "Law schools used to require studying Romans!", as people will do...
Just my two cents.
C.
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When you have been "educated" beyond your own intellect, you show off your education which is void of true wisdom and common sense...of course, most secular thinking gets its roots from people who have never even read the Bible, except on the surface, if that. If you had ever really "open-mindedly read the Bible (not a book for class), it would be impossible to have your attitude, without dismissing most of what you read.
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One of my mentors earlier in life was our county attorney who graduated from Kansas University School of Law in the mid 1980s prior to when he came to Christ. He shared that they looked at Paul‘s book to the Romans from the point of view of its example as a legal argument. It was a part of one class, not necessarily a full class in the curriculum. But it was instrumental in his coming to Christ.
I’m sure all of these years later that it is most likely no longer utilized, but he is someone I know personally who experienced it.
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