ATTN: Some resources may be locked temporarily
There is a small problem with our license server and it is not returning the correct license sets when logging in at the moment. Please hold off on reporting issues with missing resources for a few hours.
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I agree with you Joe, the cloud is nice, but unless there is sufficient redundnacy in place to ensure that this does not happen then it should not be used. Working on computers the last 20 years, it WILL happen so this give one concerns about it.
The concept is good, but it should be setup in such a way that the Logos application should fall back to a local copy of the license as it was last sync'd with the license server. This is a way that would hopefully prevent resources from being locked even if there was an issue on the server (cloud).
Any thoughts?
In Christ,
Ken
Lenovo Yoga 7 15ITL5 Touch Screen; 11th Gen Intel i7 2.8Ghz; 12Gb RAM; 500Gb SDD;WIN 11
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Kenneth Shawver said:
The concept is good, but it should be setup in such a way that the Logos application should fall back to a local copy of the license as it was last sync'd with the license server. This is a way that would hopefully prevent resources from being locked even if there was an issue on the server (cloud).
Yeah, but in this case, it seems the sync was successful, and it transmitted bad data. So there's no way to detect that it needs to use the local copy of the licenses.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Kenneth Shawver said:
The concept is good, but it should be setup in such a way that the Logos application should fall back to a local copy of the license as it was last sync'd with the license server. This is a way that would hopefully prevent resources from being locked even if there was an issue on the server (cloud).
I agree. There needs to be some local override system. I lost close to 1/3 of my 1400 resources. I needed to use them.... glad I have LDLS 3 to fall back on
Guess that is why we call it beta testing. But this needs to be figured out before going live.
Jim
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Simlar question raised here and other places that I can't recall off-hand..... I am sure the publishers like licenses being totally out of our control and that might open up opportunities for more publishers coming on board... but I am a customer and I want to have control of my license files for the reasons outlined here.
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George Allakhverdyan said:
There is a small problem with our license server and it is not returning the correct license sets when logging in at the moment. Please hold off on reporting issues with missing resources for a few hours.
Is this fixed yet? Will you be posting a new thread when this is fixed?
BTW. this is not a small problem. A third of my library has disappeared... most of the resources which I use for homily preparation....
When it is fixed, could we please be told how this happened and what processes have been put in place to ensure that it cannot happen again?
BTW. I'm aware that the program is in Beta and that things like this can happen.
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At this point, I'm apprehensive of the cloud. If my books can be "lost" for whatever reason than I think the benefit is of less value than its cost and it is not in my best interest as a consumer. I realize this present problem is beta glitch but it highlights a serious consumer issue in that the publisher has all the control over the books even after full payment has been made. Who would pay $100 for a paper reference if the publisher held the right to take back the book whenever they wanted. I understand that publishers want to control their books etc., but there must be a balance between their rights as publisher and my rights as a consumer.
If the cloud is going to control our resource updating (which I think on its own is a great idea), it should never delete files from the resource directory (forcing a re-download when things get corrected) and there needs to be a way to override the cloud with a local copy of our licenses.
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Damian McGrath said:
what processes have been put in place to ensure that it cannot happen again?
Basically, the licence server should never be able to override the local situation, and that may involve a local copy of our licences. It should never allow a logical deletion of resources that have a perpetual licence. If a resource has been moved to the resource folder by the Logos software then it is a valid resource unless the metadata indicates that it is locked or expired. etc. The licence server only tells Logos about possible discrepancies.
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My Logos4 just shut down because "we are experiencing a problem" (I had earlier confirmed that I had all my resources in Library). I'm apprehensive about restarting it until this situation is resolved.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I had an update come up that I ran this afternoon, apparently in response to the problem we were having with some resources being locked. After running the install, I did have resources show back up, but I am not certain all of them are actually available. Like many of you, my library is very extensive on Libronix and I would like to know if I still have all the books I have paid for over the years.
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I am guessing that this did not get fixed today. [:(]
Back to LDLS 3....
Jim
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The license server has now been fixed.
From what I can tell on this end, this bug only affected users who changed their licenses in the last few days (e.g., purchased a new resource on logos.com, activated a new prepub, etc.) However, to make sure everyone is fixed, we have instructed the license server to send everyone a full copy of their licenses; this means that the new time you sign in, the program will assume that your licenses have changed and will rescan your LDLS3 discovery paths for newly-unlocked resources. The "Preparing your library" screen will appear during this phase, while the program scans your hard drive. If new resources are found, your library will be re-indexed. If the "Preparing" phase concludes that everything is the same as before, no indexing will occur.
The bug was a result of inadequate testing of the server code; we will add more tests to prevent another regression error of this sort. (Also, this is a beta test, so everything is not tested as thoroughly as it would be in a production environment.)
Regarding “resources that have a perpetual licence”, many customers have asked (for many years) to be able to legally transfer resources to other users. Supporting the removal of licenses is a built-in feature of Logos 4 for this purpose. (See also http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/faq#transferlicenses.) Allowing users to easily override the official record of their licenses with a local copy would allow unscrupulous users to greatly abuse the system. (We do have a non-insignificant amount of piracy, which pushes up the cost for you: the ethical, legitimate users.)
Regarding revoking licenses due to publisher demands, please see this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/1734.aspx
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Bradly, regarding your statement on not allowing us to backup our licenses. So this means that in the future, we will be at the mercy of the Logos server. If it goes down for any reason, we can loose our licenses for hours or days and not have access until you fix the problem? So in an effort to reduce a minimal amount of piracy, everyone will be placed at risk of having their licenses lost or accidently removed by the Logos cloud? Please help clarify if I have misunderstood this new cloud control approach.0
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I think this would be a "deal breaker" for me personally. I would have to have a copy of LDLS 3 around and probably choose to purchase only LDLS 3 resources. Not sure that I would wanna have the possibility of this kinda thing happening to me in the future... especially with the investment I have in Logos books. I wouldn't want to lose the ability to use them due to a cloud glitch.
I would think that you could set up some sort of monitoring that would show that people who have sold/given away a resource and it had been taken off of their "cloud" account but being readded after a sync would send a red flag or alert. Then address the issue on a case by case basis instead of punishing/inconveniencing everyone. I am one of those who bought his pastor Scholar Gold with a few extra resources in order to keep it honest. BTW his sermons did improve... thank you Logos [:D]
For What It is Worth,
Jim
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Bradley Grainger said:
The license server has now been fixed.
From what I can tell on this end, this bug only affected users who changed their licenses in the last few days (e.g., purchased a new resource on logos.com, activated a new prepub, etc.) However, to make sure everyone is fixed, we have instructed the license server to send everyone a full copy of their licenses; this means that the new time you sign in, the program will assume that your licenses have changed and will rescan your LDLS3 discovery paths for newly-unlocked resources. The "Preparing your library" screen will appear during this phase, while the program scans your hard drive. If new resources are found, your library will be re-indexed. If the "Preparing" phase concludes that everything is the same as before, no indexing will occur.
The bug was a result of inadequate testing of the server code; we will add more tests to prevent another regression error of this sort. (Also, this is a beta test, so everything is not tested as thoroughly as it would be in a production environment.)
Regarding “resources that have a perpetual licence”, many customers have asked (for many years) to be able to legally transfer resources to other users. Supporting the removal of licenses is a built-in feature of Logos 4 for this purpose. (See also http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/faq#transferlicenses.) Allowing users to easily override the official record of their licenses with a local copy would allow unscrupulous users to greatly abuse the system. (We do have a non-insignificant amount of piracy, which pushes up the cost for you: the ethical, legitimate users.)
Regarding revoking licenses due to publisher demands, please see this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/1734.aspx
Thank you, Bradley! Peace and Joy to you! *smile*
You come through loud and clear! Indeed! I truly appreciate all the hard work you are doing for us, and many of you I am sure are physically very tired. I know some of our concerns are your concerns also. What I want to communicate in this "post" is that I, for one, do trust Logos. A number of very clear statements have been made by Bob and you and others at Logos. Thank you for them.
Yours in Christ,
...... Mel
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Joe Miller said:
If it goes down for any reason, we can loose our licenses for hours or days and not have access until you fix the problem?
No, you will not lose your licenses if the logos.com server is inaccessible, or your network cable is unplugged, or your firewall blocks it, etc.
You will lose your licenses if there is a bug in the code being beta-tested that incorrectly prevents some of your licenses being sent to you over the internet.
While this problem had been reportedly informally on the forums, I wasn't made aware of a reproducible case until 9:47am this morning, at which point I escalated the issue. The bug was fixed at 11:29am. (The announcement wasn't posted until 5:42pm, because I didn't hear that it was fixed until then.) To put this in perspective: in LDLS 3.0, we introduced a bug that prevented the system from reading your LLS 2.x license backup correctly, so you would not have access to the licenses in it. It took us six months to fix that (because the fix wasn't deployed until LDLS 3.0a was shipped). Admittedly that wasn't a serious issue that affected many users (so we didn't have to rush the fix), but my main point is that there has always been the possibility of license loss due to bugs for the entire time you've used Libronix; only now, the locus of bugs has moved from the client to the server. I think the current system lets us fix these rare licensing bugs faster than ever before, so we can restore your access to the library you purchased as soon as possible.
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Bradley,
I am glad that the problem has been fixed and that steps are being taken to ensure it cannot happen again. Not so happy about reindexing again - 3rd time this week - but I understand that these things can happen in Beta testing.
At the very least I can check out the indexing logs - they make for fascinating reading - hope that indexing of LSJ can be improved (but it is a whopper of a file).
Bradley Grainger said:While this problem had been reportedly informally on the forums,
How exactly do we "formally" report such a problem? I would have thought that describing what happened, including screen shots, on these forums would be described as formal reporting of the problem. Is there another mechanism which we should use in cases such as this?
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Bradley Grainger said:
this is a beta test, so everything is not tested as thoroughly as it would be in a production environment.
Bradley, signed in again with no indexing and all resources present. I think we can be grateful that beta testing did its job, although the apparent lack of thoroughness has again exposed concerns about "cloud" resource management.
Bradley Grainger said:Allowing users to easily override the official record of their licenses with a local copy
A local copy does not imply an easy override because it can have metadata to validate it for a particular user. It would carry the same risk as someone logging in to the server with valid credentials! How easy it would be to copy depends on how exposed the file is, but its use would depend on the metadata that can link it to a specific computer i.e. it is put in place by, and validated by, the server when online. When off-line a meaningful validation can still be performed by the software.
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Your (Bradley's) second post appeared whilst this message was being composed, so I'll concede that your assurance of off-line access reduces the need for a local copy in that situation, where we can still use logos4 unhindered.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I have to be honest, as much as I do like a lot of what V4 seems to offer or will offer, things like this disturb me. I do not look forward to the indexing fiasco whenever there is an update or a new purchase as it is, but now there could be potential for something like this to happen again and with a slight possibility of indexing being necessary due to it...
I'm really not liking the thought of this "cloud"/"big brother" deal. I would much rather have full control over library management, license back-up, etc. It's a shame that those that can function with these "power user" tools will not have that option due to those that can't handle it. I understand the cost savings, but if the cost savings costs the customers valuable time and energy - this could be a severe negative overall.
I really hope that something can be done to alleviate this deal, as of today if all does stay the same, unless there is significant upgrades to the base packages, something Bob alluded to, but did not get into specifics I may stay a V3 user....
I know as beta testers we are getting these free upgrades, which I appreciate, but I hope for what the estimated cost of upgrade that was mentioned there are some very good additions of resources, otherwise as of B3 for this user the negatives outweigh the positives...
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Damian McGrath said:Bradley Grainger said:
While this problem had been reportedly informally on the forums,
How exactly do we "formally" report such a problem?
Sorry, that was a confusing choice of words. The forums are the way that bugs should be reported. What I was trying to say was that the reports on the newsgroup had not become bugs in our bug-tracking system, with exact steps to reproduce the problem, logs, detailed hardware specs, etc. I had seen the reports of resource loss, but hadn't looked into it in detail because I assumed it was probably just a bug in resource discovery in the client. (For non-clear-cut bugs, I usually wait for Melissa or George to collect logs, try to reproduce the problem, etc.)
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I realize this is the case. My question is what safeguards are in place either locally or over the cloud to insure that a user is not locked out of their resources during a critical time in either their research or sermon prep. During Beta testing... I really don't care. As per the guidelines, this Beta is not my primary working system so the loss of access is merely an error to be reported and fixed. My real concern Bradly is what happens out of Beta testing. From my perspective (meaning not as well informed as you) this can happen again when L4 is live on thousands of machines. What happens then? If I had a paper due in 5 hours and was reading a Logos book, what happens with this "minor" bug hits? Can it hit again? is there a safeguard that can be built in locally to keep the resources open until the big is corrected? That is what I am asking about now in the Beta phase before it becomes significant.Bradley Grainger said:Joe Miller said:If it goes down for any reason, we can loose our licenses for hours or days and not have access until you fix the problem?
No, you will not lose your licenses if the logos.com server is inaccessible, or your network cable is unplugged, or your firewall blocks it, etc.
You will lose your licenses if there is a bug in the code being beta-tested that incorrectly prevents some of your licenses being sent to you over the internet.
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BTW, I should like to add Bradley, that my concern is not one of trust for Logos. I have no reason to doubt you or Bob on an ethical level to do something to our resources. I am also a cloud supporter knowing that it will save Logos $$ that can go to better things like resource development. Generally, I prefer the convenience of the cloud approach and syncing. So please don't read into my concern a general mistrust or rejection of the system. I just want to know how you will guarantee this beta glitch will never go beyond today? Can you guarantee that? What has been done to build in these safeguards? Or maybe my questions are just misguided because of my ignorance to the design process, so please tell me if that is the case as well. :-)0
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Bradley Grainger said:Damian McGrath said:Bradley Grainger said:
While this problem had been reportedly informally on the forums,
How exactly do we "formally" report such a problem?
Sorry, that was a confusing choice of words. The forums are the way that bugs should be reported. What I was trying to say was that the reports on the newsgroup had not become bugs in our bug-tracking system, with exact steps to reproduce the problem, logs, detailed hardware specs, etc. I had seen the reports of resource loss, but hadn't looked into it in detail because I assumed it was probably just a bug in resource discovery in the client. (For non-clear-cut bugs, I usually wait for Melissa or George to collect logs, try to reproduce the problem, etc.)
I been looking at too many bright white backgrounds in these forum and L4 and had to read that twice for a moment I thought you had written you were waiting on Melissa George....and wondered since when she had been working for Logos but my eyes eventually focussed and saw you acutally wrote melissa and george... [H]
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One final note: In order to support users with partial or no Internet access, Logos 4 will support "offline activation", which will use an activation file that is sent by email or on a disc (S&H fees may apply). This activation file can function as a license backup (that restores all the licenses that were on the account when it was created).
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Bradley Grainger said:
This activation file can function as a license backup (that restores all the licenses that were on the account when it was created).
That sounds like good news considering the two treads running at the moment discussing the risks of loosing data in many ways.
I have always kept a backup of my licences and I look forward to having one for L4.
When will the e-mailed file be available?
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Bradley Grainger said:
This activation file can function as a license backup
Ahhh, another titbit ...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I'm a bit confused by the term "non-insignificant" which sounds straight from Washington, D.C.
And I'm surprised (a little) that people monkey around with Bible licenses. On the other hand, the local Lifeway store reports that the theft of Bibles is a big problem.
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