The Kingdom of God
Would someone help me with the Kingdom of God from a pretribulational premillennial dispensation viewpoint? I'm not too familiar with it but I think it's something along the lines of this:
- Rapture first
- the great tribulation which lasts 7 years. Mark of the Beast.
- people get saved? Or just the Jewish ppl get saved?
- the anti Christ appears and makes an agreement with the nation of Israel
- he breaks it after 3.5 years
- the temple is rebuilt
- after 7 years Christ comes back and I 'think' He wipes out the bad guys and establishes his earthly reign from Jerusalem? Which is a 1000 years long, but after that I have no clue what happens.
What I don't know is when is the kingdom of God on earth established? I think it's a 1000 years long.
So if someone would pls help me out with this and suggest some resources to clarify this I would much appreciate it.
mm.
Comments
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Which dispensational view? Classical, progressive? [;)]
Here's an excerpt from https://www.logos.com/product/16628/four-views-on-the-book-of-revelation (Chapter 4)
Standard disclaimers apply.
16. The Millennial Kingdom of 20:1–10
Dispensationalism and progressive dispensationalism part ways abruptly from preterist and idealist interpretations of Revelation in dealing with 20:1–10. The former two understand the verses to speak of a future kingdom on earth, in contrast with the latter two, which envision a past or present fulfillment of the passage. This categorizes the former as premillennial in their outlook and the latter as postmillennial or amillennial, because of the timing of Christ’s second coming relative to the millennium in 20:1–10. “Premillennial” means he comes before, “post-millennial” means after, and “amillennial” means there is or will be no specific thousand-year period as such.
Grammatical-historical exegesis of chapter 20 dictates that the kingdom portrayed therein will be future. Several considerations provide cumulative weight to this conclusion. (1) The verses constitute the fourth and fifth scenes of the seventh bowl judgment (16:17), which is the last of the seven last plagues (15:1). The judgment consists of eight scenes, each introduced by “and I saw” (kai eidon): the second coming of Christ (19:11–16), the summons of the birds to a human feast (19:17–18), the slaughter of Christ’s human opponents (19:19–21), Satan’s imprisonment (20:1–3), Satan’s release and final defeat (20:4–10), the setting of the Great White Throne (20:11), the sentencing to the lake of fire (20:12–15), the sketch of the new Jerusalem (21:1–8). For these to be the “last” in the series of God’s last judgments, they all must be future.
...
17. The New Creation of 21:1ff.
Almost all evangelical viewpoints on Revelation allow for a new creation to follow the present creation. They include those which have no room for a future Millennium on earth, such as the preterist and the idealist. A dispensationalist view accepts the new creation too, but places it after the future temporal kingdom of a thousand years on earth. Revelation 21:1–22:5 provides the most extensive biblical revelation about the new heaven and the new earth (cf. also Ps. 102:25–26; Isa. 24:23; 26:2; 51:6, 16; 54:11–12; 60:11, 19; 65:17; 66:22).
That new creation will be the scene of Christ’s eternal kingdom, which will follow his temporal kingdom on the present earth. John’s overview of the new creation constitutes the eighth and last scene of the seventh bowl judgment in 21:1–8. Though the bulk of the scene tells of future bliss and not judgment (21:1–7), the last verse (21:8) describes exclusion from the new creation because of God’s relegation of the rebels to the lake of fire (cf. 20:12–15). An extensive elaboration regarding the new Jerusalem, the wonder of the new creation, follows in 21:9–22:5.
Some preterists doubt the future reference of 21:1ff., preferring to interpret it as a picture of the present age of the Christian church. That view imposes a symbolic view of the language that violates the obvious chronological progression in Revelation’s framework. At the same time, of course, it taxes beyond limits the grammatical-historical system of interpretation.
Progressive dispensationalism also argues for symbolism in Revelation’s description of the new creation, but not to the extreme of the preterists. It justifies a nonliteral interpretation on the basis of the book’s apocalyptic imagery. It does not go so far as denying it is a prophecy of future reality, but questions the literality of specific features of the new Jerusalem. For example, because no oysters large enough to produce pearls of sufficient size exist, 21:21 cannot be literal because it says the twelve gates of the city will be pearls. Also, because not enough gold is available to pave all the streets of such a large city, the same verse cannot be literal.57 Yet these are paltry reasons for denying literality; the resources available to an infinite God to create such a city are beyond present comprehension. Far more materials are available to him than humans of the present era can possibly comprehend.
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Yikes! Didn't realize it was so complicated. I'll have to take some time to read through your reply...…. [*-)]
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Would someone help me with the Kingdom of God from a pretribulational premillennial dispensation viewpoint? I'm not too familiar with it but I think it's something along the lines of this:
- Rapture first
- the great tribulation which lasts 7 years. Mark of the Beast.
- people get saved? Or just the Jewish ppl get saved?
- the anti Christ appears and makes an agreement with the nation of Israel
- he breaks it after 3.5 years
- the temple is rebuilt
- after 7 years Christ comes back and I 'think' He wipes out the bad guys and establishes his earthly reign from Jerusalem? Which is a 1000 years long, but after that I have no clue what happens.
What I don't know is when is the kingdom of God on earth established? I think it's a 1000 years long.
So if someone would pls help me out with this and suggest some resources to clarify this I would much appreciate it.
mm.
Hi Milkman - My understanding of a common held pre-tribulational view is the following -
- Rapture of the church (born again saved believers in Christ in accordance with the scriptures).
- A 7 year agreement between Israel and her enemies is concluded.
- The Tribulation period (7 years) begins once the agreement is made.
- The Two Witnesses appear in Jerusalem and testify of Christ for 3 1/2 years (until mid-tribulation).
- At some time between the rapture and mid-Tribulation the Third Temple is constructed.
- Possibly at mid-tribulation (3 1/2 years) the Antichrist desecrates the Temple.
- At mid-tribulation the two witnesses are killed and after 3 days are resurrected and bodily ascend to heaven.
- During the Tribulation period unsaved people will come to faith in Christ (Jews and gentiles), but life may be short!
- The Tribulation period involves progressively worse judgments on the earth.
- The Antichrist will progressively persecute and kill believers and Jewish people.
- At the end of the 7 years the Antichrist will seek to exterminate the Jewish people and their leaders will cry out to Christ to save them.
- Christ returns with the host of heaven (including the raptured church), achieves victory and deals with Antichrist and false prophet.
- At Christ's return Satan is chained and will be powerless for 1000 years.
- All who are unsaved and have survived to Christ's appearing will be judged - and not allowed to enter the Millennium Kingdom.
- All who are saved and have survived to Christ's appearing as well as the returned glorified church will live in the Millennium Kingdom.
- Christ's millennium kingdom will be on earth a literal 1000 years - a time of peace, joy and prosperity on earth.
- Those born in the millennium period will have to come to personal faith in Christ - some will not.
- On the expiry of the 1000 years, Satan is temporarily released, the unsaved revolt and the Lord intervenes victoriously.
- Note - the White throne judgement in Revelation is for the unsaved only. The unsaved and Satan committed to the lake of fire.
- Note - the saved are judged at the 'bema' of Christ and rewarded for their service - their salvation is not in doubt.
- After the Millennium, a clean sweep happens with the new heaven and new earth created.
Of course this isn't the only view out there, but its a pretty common one. In my view one of the best writers in this field is John F. Walvoord and there are a few Logos resources that outline the progression of events from a dispensationalist perspective. Walvoord takes time to present the various arguments and examine the scriptures.
J.F. Walvoord - "End times prophesy: Ancient wisdom for uncertain times"
https://www.logos.com/product/55729/end-times-prophecy-ancient-wisdom-for-uncertain-times
J.F. Walvoord - "The Prophecy Knowledge Handbook"
https://www.logos.com/product/600/the-prophecy-knowledge-handbook
He also explores different perspectives on the rapture in "The rapture question" which may be found at -
https://www.logos.com/product/167649/the-rapture-question
Hope that helps. Keep well Paul
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Thanks Paul and Wow again. I didn't realize how complicated the answer would be.
Is there a way to categorize these events into blocks or sections? The big picture. Then divide certain events that take place at a certain time, then all other events that take place at another time so that there's a simple picture with what happens when. Of course with scripture references as well.
Almost like a time line but made real simple. I can't imagine there's not something on Logos like this. Maybe I see if there's an 'end time chart' of something like that to get me started.
thanks to both of you for pointing me in a direction to start this.
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Almost like a time line but made real simple. I can't imagine there's not something on Logos like this. Maybe I see if there's an 'end time chart' of something like that to get me started.
The Complete Book of Biblical Prophecy has:
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I just looked at the preview on amazon and it sure looks like what I'm looking for. I think I'll get it.
Do you know of another book/resource that compares the different views? Chart/graph form would be preferred [:$]
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The Footsteps of the Messiah: A Study of the Sequence of Prophetic Events contains 15 charts and 3 diagrams. His frame of reference is dispensational, pretribulational, premillennialism.
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Looks like I have that. I need to add that to my 'end times' collection. Thanks!
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Another helpful resource available in Logos is the three-volume work by George N. H. Peters, The Theocratic Kingdom of Our Lord Jesus, the Christ.
It is heavy reading at first, but likely the most scholarly and thorough work on the subject.
I have found these volumes worth the time it takes to read them.
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Nobody ever beat Clarence Larkin for dramatic Premil charts and images, and Logos has heaps of Larkin.
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Nobody ever beat Clarence Larkin for dramatic Premil charts and schematics.
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Yeah that's pretty cool. Too bad it's not in colour.
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If you like charts and tables for prophecy there's one book I have on my shelf which is good for reference (though no colour charts). It's paperback with 175 pages, but not available in Logos I'm afraid:
H. Wayne House & Randall Price "Charts of Biblical Prophecy" (Zondervan, 2003)
https://www.amazon.com/Charts-Bible-Prophecy-Wayne-House/dp/0310218969
This book covers teaching on prophecy generally, the prophetic texts, systems of eschatology, the Rapture, Second Coming,Israel, the Olivet discourse, the millennium, Daniel and Revelation etc s its title suggests its primarily charts and tables. Its also an easy read. Keep well Paul
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Have you suggested this yet?
House does have this in Logos
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No - I haven't formally suggested it to Faithlife, but it might be useful for people. Keep well Paul
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Yeah that's pretty cool. Too bad it's not in colour.
Here you go:
https://drraytharpray.wixsite.com/larkin-color-charts/giving
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Even better are the charts by Thomas Ice in the book Charting the End Times. These are available in book form and in PowerPoint but are not available in Logos.
https://www.amazon.com/Charting-End-Times-Understanding-LibraryTM/dp/0736901388
When you click on the chart it comes out clearer not like this black background.
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If you have the Bible Knowledge Commentary there is a list of end time events in chronological order. This is right before the comments on the book of Daniel.
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Magic man! Nice.
Yeah that's pretty cool. Too bad it's not in colour.
Here you go:
https://drraytharpray.wixsite.com/larkin-color-charts/giving
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I do and I see. thanks.
If you have the Bible Knowledge Commentary there is a list of end time events in chronological order. This is right before the comments on the book of Daniel.
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HI Milkman:
Not an expert, but see not many talk about the distinction:
Saved means not only from the lake of fire, but also from the tribulation.
Different groups have different views, from different sources, here is a short and rough synthesis for your consideration:
If by Church is meant Ekklessia, then in the OT there was also such.
As far as the "gathering of saints" at Pentecost, that was unique because the Holy Spirit came atop believers so they could worship in Spirit and truth due to the atonement already operant.
Jesus came to restore Koinonia of man and God, and that was done through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the One that was lost at transgression. This particularity only could happen in the time after Jesus was glorified and sent the promised Holy Spirit. So yes Pentecost church is different to OT assembly.
When will it end?
Some groups believe that the parable of the wise and foolish virgins actually mean that there will be two groups in the Church:
those that have oil in their lamps (Holy Spirit), and those that do not have enough.
The ones hot with the Holy Spirit will be taken to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb, while the ones that are lukewarm / cold without enough Holy Spirit (oil in their lamp), will go through the tribulation, and will be rescued at the end by Jesus and the full of oil group.
The low on oil group are the ones referred as having had to clean their garments in the tribulation. So you can say one group stays while the other is with Jesus.
Also some think that the story of Joseph of Egypt is a type of what will happen with Israel: before Joseph (type of Jesus) reveals to his brothers, everyone had to leave the hall (his wife was sent to the royal chambers (gentile wife type of the wise full of oil group). Then when Joseph revealed to his brothers, they would weep understanding that they did something seemingly wrong, but Jesus will explain that such happened to preserve lives (gentiles).
Peace and grace.
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It is the proper question that often needs to be asked, in order to find the right answers. The Kingdom of God and the things concerning it are mysteries and are hidden the Bible says.
Watch this video. https://youtu.be/0FcYWkANO4M
It will explain it. It is unlike anything you've heard.
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