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Parallel Resource Sets REALLY slow

Fred Greco

I have been having a problem with parallel resources for a while now. It is so bad that I had stopped even using the parallel resources, and so had forgotten about the problem for a month or more. It takes an unbelievable amount of time to get the parallel resources to show up when I click the icon for it.

For example, I created a parallel resource set for Acts Commentaries so I could cycle through them easily in my sermon prep. When I click the drop down, it is typically 2-3 minutes before anything but the spinning wheel shows up. This happens even if I click the drop down, select a resource and a couple seconds later click the drop down again (for another resource). It makes cycling through commentaries useless.

I also (it might be related) am unable to use the keyboard shortcuts at all. I believe it is supposed to be Ctrl+Shift+Right arrow (or left arrow) to go forward (or backward) through resources. That does nothing.

I'm running 4.0d B4, but I have had the problem with other versions. Any help would be appreciated.

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Mark Barnes

Could you post a log?

Fred Greco

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140276#Comment_140276

What would be the best way to do that? I have run a log in a long time. Also, how would I make sure I capture this behavior? If you can help with that, I know how to post the file that would result.

Thanks!

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140278#Comment_140278

Follow "How to ask for help" in my signature to turn on logging.

Then open Logos, open a commentary or Bible Dictionary, and switch to a different parallel resource. Then move to a different entry in that new dictionary/commentary and switch to a third parallel resource. Then exit Logos.

If you upload the log and let me know the 'path' you took (e.g. Anchor on Jesus -> NDB on Jesus; NBD on Galilee -> EBD on Galilee), and your timings. I'll replicate here.

The normal behaviour is that the first lookup will take a long time (30s to 1 minute), but that subsequent lookups should be relatively short (5-10 seconds). A slow hard drive will slow down the first lookup, lack of memory will slow down subsequent ones. Obviously the number of resources (and probably the number of collections that are shown in PRS) will slow down both.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140278#Comment_140278

The normal behaviour is that the first
lookup will take a long time (30s to 1 minute), but that subsequent
lookups should be relatively short (5-10 seconds). A slow hard drive
will slow down the first lookup, lack of memory will slow down
subsequent ones. Obviously the number of resources (and probably the
number of collections that are shown in PRS) will slow down
both.

It takes too long for me as well, though it only takes 20-30 seconds on my system. Which really is too long, even if it is normal.

I watched the logs while it does it, and it seems to rebuild all the collections that have "Show in parallel resources" the first time you click on the PRS button in a resource (see below, the section in pink is what happens while I'm waiting for the menu to show up). If I don't select a different resource, then it doesn't rebuild them the next time I click on the menu (the ElementUtility lines highlighted in green represent a subsequent click on the menu).

BUT if I do select a different resource, then when I select the PRS menu
in that new resource, it rebuilds the collections again (in blue, below). So if I keep
selecting different books, as Fred said, it takes a long time to cycle
through them.

I wonder if Fred has all his collections checked to be included in Parallel Resources--that would definitely slow it down.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140282#Comment_140282

I think we documented this behavior before, but I doubt I could find the thread. We saw that Logos was constantly regenerating the parallel resource list rather than caching it somewhere for the next use. I believe the request we made to Logos back them was to see what they could do to minimize the number of times the list had to be regenerated. I don't think this has happened yet. (Note that start-up time is slowed down greatly by Logos regenerating collections each time, again instead of having a cache for them. Same basic issue.)

I found that the only way I could get parallel resources to operate acceptably was by excluding almost all my collections (I may have 100 of them) from being used in parallel resources. I kept a few, but eliminating the vast majority of them made my system work OK.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140285#Comment_140285

I've moaned frequently about collections not caching properly, though I have to say Logos is running pretty quick for me in Bible Dictionaries. It's still pretty slow in commentaries. If I've understood the logs Todd posted, the problem isn't actually the collections though. The collections took 0.5 seconds.

So what is the problem? The major delay (in his first screenshot) was the 22 seconds between 14:27:20.7026 and 14:27:42.8745. During that time, Logos is searching all the commentaries in his library, and seeing if they refer to the passage he's requested. I don't know the size of his library, but you could argue that 22 seconds is actually quite good, and would compare favourably with that section of the Passage Guide that does a similar job.

In my own situation, creating the collections takes 1.2s. Searching all the resources the first time to produce the PRS menu takes 38 seconds. The next time, creating the collections takes 1s, and search all the resources takes 10 seconds. Probably the necessary files are cached in memory by Windows.

I can see two ways of Logos improving this:

To record somewhere the coverage of each Bible commentary. That would prevent Logos searching commentaries on Deuteronomy for lookups in Corinthians, which is what happens now. It only takes around 0.02 seconds to search each resource, so presumably Logos thinks 0.02s doesn't matter. But I have 1,293 commentaries, and 1,293 x 0.02 equals 25 seconds. That does matter.
Or to create a separate index of bible headings in commentaries that could be searched without opening all the commentaries in your library and searching each one individually.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140294#Comment_140294

Or to create a separate index of bible headings in commentaries that could be searched without opening all the commentaries in your library and searching each one individually.

This seems like the obvious answer.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140304#Comment_140304

I like the idea of more "indexes" that track what verse-ranges are covered by each commentary volume. It would not take long to rebuild such a list after a resource update, but once built, would make significant advantages in the times reported above.

Anywhere that is static for a given resource-library, is a possible for pre-indexing of some of the kinds of data thats in them. I'm happy to trade disk-space for better search and run times.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/140307#Comment_140307

OK, I want to raise this issue again.

I NEVER use the PRS menu anymore because it takes so long to populate. Can it be fixed?

I can always find 3 or 4 other ways to get to what I want that are quicker than using that menu.

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/159672#Comment_159672

Yeah, L4 has always been like this. I've just learned to use them as little as possible and to be patient whenever I really do have to use them. Just one of those things.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/159672#Comment_159672

I NEVER use the PRS menu anymore because it takes so long to populate. Can it be fixed?

What sort of times are you seeing? (I know this is a resource-dependent issue). Just want to compare.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/159710#Comment_159710

I NEVER use the PRS menu anymore because it takes so long to populate. Can it be fixed?

What sort of times are you seeing? (I know this is a resource-dependent issue). Just want to compare.

20 seconds. (the first time. subsequent clicks in the same resource are immediate, but if you select a new resource, it has to rebuild again)

Brian Davidson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/159723#Comment_159723

The Parallel Resources feature is really slow for me as well. 15-20 seconds or so the first time I click on it, but it's quicker after it populates for the first time.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/159723#Comment_159723

20 seconds. (the first time. subsequent clicks in the same resource are immediate, but if you select a new resource, it has to rebuild again)

Depending on the resource set I get up to 26 seconds for a 'fresh' opening with just 'all parallel resources' showing. Subsequent use goes down to between 2 and 5 seconds (depending on the number of available resources). So I guess I am seeing times similar to yours.

I haven't let this keep me from using parallel resources. I am willing to bite the bullet for the initial opening time. 2-5 seconds thereafter isn't onerous to me. Would I like it to be almost instantaneous? You bet.

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/159710#Comment_159710

What sort of times are you seeing?

It took over 40 seconds to populate OT resources for "1 Kings 1:1–4" (deliberately chosen because I have less OT resources as opposed to NT).

Also: I have "few" collections "checked" because of this lack of speed. Some of you have already noted that too "many' checked collections will also slow things as ALL must be searched in order to provide the necessary info.

And yes, I am aware that subsequent hits populate more quickly.

See my name block for computer stats. I assume that "slower" machines take more time?

Next to no PBB or Sermon File this is one of my Logos4 negative "issues"!