Comment:: Added support for search extensions to find verses related to a Topic

New feature: "Added support for search extensions to find verses related to a Topic in Bible Search (e.g. {Section <Topic Euphemism in the Bible>})."

How is this helpful when there is no autocomplete for a <Topic ... entry e.g. for <Topic Death, when there are results for {Section <Topic Death>}.

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PetahChristian

I can probably guess what <Topic ...> does, but I have no clue what {Section <Topic ...>} does.

I thought the wiki might help, but all it says about {Section ...} is “{Section...} returns the text that is identified by a textual datatype (from information stored in a dataset).”

Can you clarify that that particular search extension does, please?

I’m not running the beta, but I think you’re saying Bible search for {Section <Topic Resurrection>} will return verses, when <Topic Resurrection> isn’t returning any results. Is that correct?

Furthermore, if I can get Bible search results for the more understandable <Person Jesus> or <Place Jerusalem>, what makes <Topic Resurrection> different that it returns no results? Words are tagged as a person or place, but not as a topic?

Thanks for any explanation you can offer to a search-illiterate user.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1083969#Comment_1083969

I can probably guess what <Topic ...> does, but I have no clue what {Section <Topic ...>} does.

{Section <Datatype....>} displays the manuscript text that is associated with a datatype value like <Culture Light>, where Culture classifies the text (several words, a sentence, or a phrase) and Light describes/identifies that instance. I call these a textual datatype as distinct from datatypes like <GreekStrongs...>, <TWOT...> where the value is tagged for that datatype e.g. G5547 can be understood as Greek Strongs 5547, but it has to be tagged as <GreekStrongs> to be searchable.

<Topic ....> has a lot of legacy baggage, and <Topic Light> might return "Topic: Light", instances where the word "light" has been tagged as a Topic, or images that have been tagged as a Topic with value "light"! But {Section <Topic Light>} will return bible text appropriate to that topic e.g.Gen 1:3-5.

It appears that the topic values are those that could be suggested by Topic Guide (or Basic Search!), but there is no autocomplete for <Topic .. in Bible/Morph Search, unlike the other new feature that has "Added autocomplete suggestions for Biblical Events, Cultural Concepts, and Preaching Themes to Bible and Morph Search".

if I can get Bible search results for the more understandable <Person Jesus> or <Place Jerusalem>, what makes <Topic Resurrection> different that it returns no results? Words are tagged as a person or place, but not as a topic?

"Jesus Christ" and "Jesus" are recognizable as a <Person>, as "Jerusalem" is recognizable as a <Place>. Now, they may be part of a <Topic> or <Event>, but what is the text that describes it and what is the value that identifies it? The simplistic answer is that {Section <Topic...>} was chosen as the means to reveal the text associated with a textual datatype like <Topic> because the basic mechanisms are different to the way that traditional datatypes like <GreekStrongs> are defined and revealed.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1084031#Comment_1084031

Gradually getting more of a handle on this, thanks, Dave!

So, looking at the Genesis 1:3-5 example, "light" isn't tagged as a topic, but (the verse, not the word, in retrospect) is tagged as a Cultural Concept. I notice that the context menu icon seems to match the Topic Guide.

So, {Section <Topic …> (also?) uses the Cultural Ontology (new for Logos 6) dataset, but the Topic Guide uses the LCV (new for Logos 4)?

I sat down to experiment with Logos again:

<Person Jesus> returns 3k verses with highlighted words tagged as that person.
{Section <Person Jesus>} returns 0 verses
<Culture Light> returns 0 verses
{Section <Culture Light>} returns 94 verses

So, words are tagged as <Person …> but verses (references) are tagged as <Culture ...>.

<Person …> is a non-textual datatype, but <Culture ...> is a textual datatype. {Section …} is needed for textual Bible searches, but not used for Basic <Culture Light> (e.g., media) searches.

So, here's the big question about <Culture Light>. Bible search gives 94 verses, but Topic Guide gives 51 verses. Some verses only show up in the Bible search. Others only show up in the Topic guide. The remainder show up in both. What's going on there, please?

(I think this goes back to MJ's posts about letting us see what search is being run under the hood. How are we supposed to be confident about differing results, when we don't know what the Topic guide really is searching for in the Related Verses section?)

Philana R. Crouch

How is this helpful when there is no autocomplete for a <Topic ... entry e.g. for <Topic Death, when there are results for {Section <Topic Death>}.

We have a case to add this to the autocompleter.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1084041#Comment_1084041

So, here's the big question about <Culture Light>. Bible search gives 94 verses, but Topic Guide gives 51 verses. Some verses only show up in the Bible search. Others only show up in the Topic guide. The remainder show up in both. What's going on there, please?

So, {Section <Topic …> (also?) uses the Cultural Ontology (new for Logos 6) dataset, but the Topic Guide uses the LCV (new for Logos 4)?

I don't understand how you get "Topic Guide gives 51 verses".

If you compare Topic Guide topic > Related Verses with Basic Search > {Section <Topic topic>} they provide the same results (in Logos 8.11 Beta). So it appears that <Topic> for Bibles is based on the LCV dataset.

And don't confuse <Topic>/LCV with <Culture>/Cultural Ontology because different datatypes suit different purposes i.e. don't try to compare <Topic Light> and <Culture Light>!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1084186#Comment_1084186

We have a case to add this to the autocompleter.

Thank you.