Help, I'm a newbie who just opened Logos and I'm already lost
Okay, I'm just pretending that I'm a newbie to see what sort of choices I face given all the beginners' help Logos offers - layouts, workflows, guides, or "jump-in and hope". Here's my diagram ... how would you want to be eased into using Logos? I'm spending a few days mulling it over in hopes of finding some inspiration.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I like that diagram.. Its how I first felt. LOL And still do feel sometimes today..
I have probably only scratched the surface of what all Logos offers. Still learning..
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Very nice guide MJ!
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MJ. Smith said:
how would you want to be eased into using Logos?
The old 30-day challenge was a good experience, and you got a bundle of resources for free upon completion.
That was my introduction to what Logos could do.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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MJ. Smith said:
I'm a newbie to see what sort of choices I face
re: the Purple branch. An experienced user may have custom workflows to go to. But is a newbie likely to have any custom workflows? Perhaps a newbie would go to a shared custom workflow if an experience Logosian has pointed him or her to the documents folders. I agree that graphic displays the options, but visually it may be overwhelming with options that a newbie would not have in a personal library. Just my 2 cents.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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David Thomas said:
But is a newbie likely to have any custom workflows?
Although they are inapt to have any, it is still an option with which they are presented - both to use and to create.
David Thomas said:but visually it may be overwhelming with options that a newbie would not have in a personal library
I suspect that the level of features for a newbie is highly dependent on their current role. Fortunately, those most apt to have the full-feature set as newbies are also the most apt to be computer literate.
However, I have realized that I didn't consider the command box when it functions as the old GO box ... which provided a gentle starting point.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I've long thought a visual glossary for the UI is needed (actually wishing I had time to create one), and I'm not sure I've seen one.
What I mean is: what's a tab, what's a panel, what's a context menu, etc.? There are a whole lot of terms that medium- to long-time users take for granted but aren't intuitive and thus not clear to a new user. That presents two problems: 1) When trying to follow instructions, they don't know what the terms mean. 2) When trying to formulate questions, they don't know what terms to use.
My $.02...
-Donnie
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MJ. Smith said:
Okay, I'm just pretending that I'm a newbie to see what sort of choices I face given all the beginners' help Logos offers
I was hoping you were also speaking to Bible classes. Your concept is absolutely perfect. Since FL is now supporting the church, I've been hoping they'd support the church (with Logos).
Every since I got Libby and her sophisticated sister Logos, I've tried to see how it could be used in a group Christian environment.
Individually, I think it's a person-specific issue. Some like this, others that. The trick is being aware of what each can do in Logos. My impression is churches are pretty blind to individual study. And Logos is like the top-line Makita bench set, or Bernina quilter. Complicated and mysterious. Terrible learning curve.
For group studies, my ideas almost always had a fatal flaw (whether group Bible study, pastor/teacher > individual studies, Logos integrated with Proclaim (beyond current basics), and so forth).
But MJ's approach would be great for led-Bible study. It's easy to guide, easy to explore outside class, students can advise each other easily. Especially for women (enjoy together-ing, but private explore). Decently affordable. It'd be even better, if packaged with some of the popular Bible study materials churches use, depending on tradition.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Nice graphic.
How about adding another branch where someone just wants to read some books/resources?
Logos does two things for me, one is great Bible study software, the other is a massive digital library. I now regularly use a full-screen floating Library pane, viewing various books/resources as tabs in that pane, independently of Bible study.
What if someone new to Logos just wants to simply access and read their library, but is bewildered by the 'Bible study' focused options?
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Further proof Logos needs to simplify. Said it for years.
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JoshInRI said:
Further proof Logos needs to simplify. Said it for years.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/174232/1006500.aspx#1006500
You'll get another chance this fall, with the expert users wondering what could be simpler. Haven't seen your comments for a while. Welcome back!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Yep. Logos needs a 1) Basic Mode and a 2) Bible Study Mode. Said it for years. I would use both.
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Do any of you have concrete suggestions as to how to show the user a simpler set of choices? Would it actually limit the available features or simply bring the most important features to the front?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Well, first, I thought your approach was quite good. Add the read-suggestions as above.
Then I remembered OliveTree is fairly easy-entry, and see how that worked. Unfortunately, somehow I pushed the wrong button, and couldn't extricate myself ... I had only downloaded 4 books but I think I'm going to have to re-install.
But it illustrates, the interface needs to be simple. And an ability to 'go back'. Within 3 minutes in OT, I was lost (and done; fix it in the future).
The current Logos UI can't be simplified. I think an overlay makes more sense. Even re-treading the old home page (new name), using your ideas, library, book area, etc. Easy to pop into, easy to explore the big Logos and safely return. Also easy to orient in a classroom environment too.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Okay - group think. What if we created modes of running Logos. Assume that the user can save a couple of modes that they use frequently ... and that the main toolbar allows you into a mode menu; also assume that a first time user automatically is directed from home page to mode. I was inclined to include a layout/guide/workflow choice but decided that was a bit too technical here.
Choices:
- hide unowned features (rather than graying). Note that features owned but not used in the current mode are grayed
- include devotionals i.e. show prayers, calendar devotionals, ...
- choose one of the following
- read a book - book, dictionary, notes
- read a Bible - Bible, dictionary, notes, Bible dictionary
- add in reading plan
- add in lectionary/saints
- study a Bible: passage - all Bible passage tools except those selected below
- add in lectionary/saints
- add in sermon editor
- add in original language tools
- study a Bible: topic - all Bible topic tools except those selected below
- add in theology
- add in sermon editor
- add in original language
- original language study - all the language tools (note I haven't selected a particular language)
- give me everything
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Didn't the web app go down this path for a while, then abandon it to look more like the desktop?
It used to have cards where you could choose what you wanted to do.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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I don't use the web app enough to know. I thought the cards were functionally related to the GO box. But the web app doesn't have enough functionality for a running mode to be noticeable. This is not intended to guide you on the use of the application; it is intended to pare the application down to offering you only what you need ... until you're ready to say throw it all at me.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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- Invite newbies to want to start at the Home Page.
- Clean it up - let users add what they want rather than having to subtract what they don't.
- Market elsewhere (unless people add it themselves) - keep the Home Page software-functional
- Create a separate linked "Explorers Page" for all things marketing and non-basic searching/reading (sort of like the existing Home Page (although I bet few people will go there)
- Choose Buttons among 3 modes: Basic - Intermediate - Advanced
- Basic
- Simple reading environment
- Easy Library view - sorted by a few key types: Bibles. Fiction, Devotional, etc. (not too many)
- Hide unowned features
- Docs (simplified Notebooks only) | Guides (People, Places, things) | Tools all simplified (B. Browser, Atlas, Explorer)
- Easy highlighter
- Read a Bible
- Choose a Bible
- Find a location very simply
- Simple Bible search --instant--with a few very simple templates
- Search returns a verse and access to commentaries /dictionaries - auto prioritize (?) commentaries (maybe a simplified Info panel could do this).
- Simplified note taking (Just give me a clean box to write in)
- Simplified access to Bible dictionaries
- Simplified access to Commentaries
- Buttons that allow a user to open a commentary, dictionary Bible, Note--full screen without anything weird or time consuming happening. Then make it easy to GO BACK.
- make GO BACK work intuitively everywhere you let the user go.
- Read a Book
- Each book has 10 simple bookmarks
- Simple, clean Kindle-like experience
- Favorites - simple bookshelf of favorite books currently being read or to read soon
- Intermediate - All the above +
- For personal Morning Bible study, quick Sunday school lesson, emergency sermon prep
- Go Box
- More Docs (Clippings, Passage List), Guides (Ex, Pass. Theo, Topic, BWS), Tools (more), full Library functions
- Complete Notes features
- Layouts
- Compared to Advanced, Cut the clutter - Make it faster by not digging through every last feature and resource to gather information
- Advanced
- Give me Everything
Allow some user-settings modularity, for example in basic mode, let a use select check boxes of commentary/series they want to include or exclude. Presumably newbies won't unusually have a lot in which to get lost. By the time they do, they will know what to do.
I may try to create a graphic later. Out of time.
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Thank you ... some interesting food for thought
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I I’m ex Wordsearch user, just discovered it moved to logos. I have no knowledge of logos use.
I called logos, they said they don’t offer trading over phone.
i have watched videos some.
are there any user forums for Wordsearch new logo students.
how to
create doc, save, rename, organize
setup resource templates of favorite resources
is there a copy paste from resource into a word processor
wordsearch resource transfer to logos
i got logos 8- does have any books
thanks
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As a former Wordsearch user myself, I would suggest this traininf, right after you complete the "Quickstart for Logos 9 (or 8)" which should be in your library.
https://mpseminars.com/webinars/wordsearch/
Phil Foster said:I I’m ex Wordsearch user, just discovered it moved to logos. I have no knowledge of logos use.
I called logos, they said they don’t offer trading over phone.
i have watched videos some.
are there any user forums for Wordsearch new logo students.
how to
create doc, save, rename, organize
setup resource templates of favorite resources
is there a copy paste from resource into a word processor
wordsearch resource transfer to logos
i got logos 8- does have any books
thanks
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Phil Foster said:
I I’m ex Wordsearch user, just discovered it moved to logos. I have no knowledge of logos use.
I called logos, they said they don’t offer trading over phone.
i have watched videos some.
are there any user forums for Wordsearch new logo students.
how to
create doc, save, rename, organize
setup resource templates of favorite resources
is there a copy paste from resource into a word processor
wordsearch resource transfer to logos
i got logos 8- does have any books
thanks
briefly, here is a place you can go to on the website for basic intro videos on the software. You can start here
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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