Paul vs. Jesus resources

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree, but I just wanted to know if there are resources that talk about the list of these topics. I know sometimes people promotes different ideas of Paul, not because of what Paul wrote, but because we often confuse application with content, and how some people misinterpret them. I hope I didn't confuse you guys.

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Rosie Perera

There's an article by Scot McKnight about this topic in Christianity Today from Dec 3, 2010:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/december/9.25.html

It's in Logos (if you have those years of Christianity Today as a resource) at logosres:ctmag54;ref=VolumeNumberPage.V_54,_N_12,_pp_24-25;off=9

There's an accompanying Bible study that can be purchased from CT:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/j/jesus-vs-paul.html

There's also a book by Jeremy Treat called The Crucified King which "deftly dispatches several [false dichotomies], including Old Testament vs. New, Jesus vs. Paul, and biblical vs. systematic theology." (Bobby Jamieson, “Review of The Crucified King: Atonement and Kingdom in Biblical and Systematic Theology by Jeremy Treat,” 9Marks Journal, 2014, 42.

The Crucified King isn't available in Logos, but it's available in Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GS084RW

There are some articles online that go into the so-called differences, if you want to pursue that route with the above resources in hand to debunk the incompatibility of Jesus and Paul:

https://doctrine.org/jesus-vs-paul

http://www.voiceofjesus.org/paulvsjesus.html

David Paul

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree

I assume what you said here makes sense to you, but I am not at all clear as to what you mean. Are you saying:

A) there should be no variation in teaching from Yeishuua` to Paulus because it seems like an intuitive assumption to expect there to be agreement because their teachings are both found in the same Book?
OR
there is a necessity that Yeishuua` teach and fulfill the requirements of Tanakh: because He can only effectively die as a Savior if He is completing the tasks of Tohraah, and so Paulus, to maintain agreement and avoid difference, must (should) likewise teach and fulfill those same requirements--because they are in the same Book?
OR
C) something else?

YHWH said He expects people to keep His word/teaching (Tohraah)...Yeishuua` said He does only what He sees and hears from the Father...Paulus says if you attempt to keep the Father's word/teaching then Yeishuua`'s Messianic sacrifice is of no effect. Paulus said that the message he was bringing was BRAND NEW (Eph. 3:4, 5).

So...what exactly are you stating/suggesting when you say "Re: differences btwn Yeishuua` & Paulus...there should be NONE"?

DMB

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

As Rosie's list demonstrates, most (all?) treatments either go one way (different!!), or same (emphasis!!). I don't know of any that make a rigorous comparison. Such would include 3 or even 4 comparisons .... jewish teaching/culture, hellenism, Jesus (reported), and Paul (collected).

- A lot of 'sameness' is simply members of the same cultural group. A lot of difference can be associated with reported, or collected.

- If one glues together the gospels with gnostics, would the 'emphasis' argument be exactly the same? Or the gospels and Zorastrian flavors? Both combinations had centuries of success among Christians. Made sense.

- How much is similarity, doctrinal picking/choosing? In our Bible class, I printed the Jesus commands (demanded as Jesus powered up to Heaven), and asked who actually did any of them, or was too worried about it? Everyone smiled.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088965#Comment_1088965

Everyone smiled.

Did anyone sweat?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088970#Comment_1088970

Everyone smiled.

Did anyone sweat?

I've never seen anyone sweat, selecting the wrong religion or version of such. Usually, the sweating is having ignored a doctrine in some guilty way. On Sunday morning in our village 30 ministers (rounding) proclaim at least 29 false-teachings, and nary a one is concerned the terrible odds don't favor them. (Not saying 'which' conceivably might be the correct one). And in class, doctrine trumps the text.

MJ. Smith

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree,

Starting with your premise that Jesus teaching Jews before the crucifixion and resurrection and Paul teaching Gentiles after the resurrection should have no differences in emphasis, I have no suggestions. Modifying that premise to there should be only differences in emphasis and not in doctrine, you might be interested in

Jesus vs. Paul from doctrine.org (ah, I see Rosie covered this one)
What did Paul Know about Jesus? by Gregory C. Jenks is, on the other hand, an interesting attempt to identify what Paul actually knew about Jesus (as opposed to knowing about the emerging church).
Ehrman has, of course, weighed in on the subject but not in free articles
Paul vs. Jesus by Barrie Wilson is a reasonably evenhanded presentation of the issues and data.
Slightly off-topic but useful is Christ in the Theologies of Paul and John by Matera - shows the difference of having traveled with Jesus and being a late-comer
On the flip side of the coin 100 Similarities between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul by Wales is an interesting, simple list.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088983#Comment_1088983

This might be also interesting, although expensive

When Paul Met Jesus: How an Idea Got Lost in History

https://www.amazon.com/When-Paul-Met-Jesus-History-ebook/dp/B01CJUV55W/

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088984#Comment_1088984

This might be also interesting, although expensive

When Paul Met Jesus: How an Idea Got Lost in History

https://www.amazon.com/When-Paul-Met-Jesus-History-ebook/dp/B01CJUV55W/

Wow, that looks great but expensive. I wish Logos would get it, but it still might be more than I'd spend for something like that. If it were in the $30-40 range, I'd snap it up.

David Wanat

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088962#Comment_1088962

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree

I assume what you said here makes sense to you, but I am not at all clear as to what you mean. Are you saying:

So...what exactly are you stating/suggesting when you say "Re: differences btwn Yeishuua` & Paulus...there should be NONE"?

maybe I’m mistaken, but I interpreted it as asking about resources that discussed perceived differences that some think are present.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088995#Comment_1088995

maybe I’m mistaken, but I interpreted it as asking about resources that discussed perceived differences that some think are present.

Historically, there's been a LOT of "some"...and that being the case, it makes sense to conclude that there's something motivating the "some". I'm still curious as to what he's "100% in agreement" with.

Going to recommend The Mythmaker by Hyam Maccoby. I suggested that FL add this to Logos years ago. STILL think they should add it.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1089001#Comment_1089001

Going to recommend The Mythmaker by Hyam Maccoby. I suggested that FL add this to Logos years ago. STILL think they should add it.

Well, don't recommend it on my account ... I just ordered it. Appreciate it. I always wondered to what degree Paul knew Deu/Isa/Jer, concerning prophets that didn't nail it.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088951#Comment_1088951

Thank you!

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088962#Comment_1088962

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree

I assume what you said here makes sense to you, but I am not at all clear as to what you mean. Are you saying:

So...what exactly are you stating/suggesting when you say "Re: differences btwn Yeishuua` & Paulus...there should be NONE"?

A! Although I won't put it that way.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088983#Comment_1088983

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree,

Starting with your premise that Jesus teaching Jews before the crucifixion and resurrection and Paul teaching Gentiles after the resurrection should have no differences in emphasis, I have no suggestions. Modifying that premise to there should be only differences in emphasis and not in doctrine, you might be interested in

Jesus vs. Paul from doctrine.org (ah, I see Rosie covered this one)

What did Paul Know about Jesus? by Gregory C. Jenks is, on the other hand, an interesting attempt to identify what Paul actually knew about Jesus (as opposed to knowing about the emerging church).

Ehrman has, of course, weighed in on the subject but not in free articles

Paul vs. Jesus by Barrie Wilson is a reasonably evenhanded presentation of the issues and data.

Slightly off-topic but useful is Christ in the Theologies of Paul and John by Matera - shows the difference of having traveled with Jesus and being a late-comer

On the flip side of the coin 100 Similarities between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul by Wales is an interesting, simple list.

Thank you! Very helpful.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088995#Comment_1088995

maybe I’m mistaken, but I interpreted it as asking about resources that discussed perceived differences that some think are present.

Yes, thank you! Your sixth sense is correct.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1088983#Comment_1088983

Jesus vs. Paul from doctrine.org (ah, I see Rosie covered this one)

You and Rosie quoted this one. I read it but it didn't sit well with me. What do you guys think?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1089661#Comment_1089661

I read it but it didn't sit well with me. What do you guys think?

"think" to me implies rational thought; "sit well" .... well, I don't know what it really means except a vague dis-ease. If you mean, "do I agree with the doctrinal assumptions of the article?" No, I do not but I did not interpret your original question to mean resources that I found to be theologically agreeable. If you mean, "do I believe that within their assumptions the author made an honest attempt to identify and interpret the evidence?" Yes, I do ... and that is considerably more than many articles on the web do. Many cherry pick the evidence, sugar-coat the difficulties and ask me to swallow the sweet mess whole. I prefer sources that may leave me uncomfortable and therefore force me to genuinely analyze the evidence and argument they present.

Puddin’

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1089667#Comment_1089667

I recently read somewhere (can’t recall where) that it’s quite probable that Rabbi Saul actually saw Jesus during His earthly ministry inasmuch as Paul would’ve been one of the Pharisees (cf., Philippians) who were withstanding him around Jerusalem.

I had never heard this theory, but I found it an interesting point.

Probably unrelated to Logos materials—other than to suggest Constantine Campbell’s work on “Unity in Christ” (don’t recall the actual name of the book off-hand).

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1089383#Comment_1089383

Are the any resources that talk about the different emphasizes between Paul vs. Jesus?

I know there should be none and I 100% agree

Are you saying:
A) there should be no variation in teaching from Yeishuua` to Paulus because it seems like an intuitive assumption to expect there to be agreement because their teachings are both found in the same Book?

A! Although I won't put it that way.

Okay, you wouldn't put it that way. Having picked A, though, I think the notion that there "should" be no difference is rejected by the Scriptural declarations of the facts as they lay. Paulus said his gospel is a brand new thing, and he plainly refers to it as "his" gospel on multiple occasions, something that even Yeishuua` never did. I'm only bringing any of this up because if your premises are out of whack, your conclusions will be too. If you are going to take Paulus at his word, then "no", (in contradiction of the language of choice A) there shouldn't be "no variation"--in fact, variation is explicitly declared. In other words, the intuitive (and thus extremely common) assumption misleads.