Logos Reader
Comments
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What adds to the confusion is that I thought e-books were originally supposed to be like kindle books. So really, I suspect another marketing difficulty. Thankfully, if they strategize wisely and have someone write clearly, they still at the moment have time to avoid a marketing blunder.
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Bump to Bradley, Ben or Phil. Please comment at least on the spirit of my question, if not on the entire law with all its details.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
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I understand the concept of the change and think it is reasonable. But I think Logos needs to do a lot of work to make simply reading books a much simpler and intuitive process. Right now the program and especially mobile apps (where most basic book reading would be done) are very poorly set up for book reading. At a minimum we need some kind of reading list (to read) that is easy to access from all devices and ways to sort and organize books for reading. I tried using the apps for reading in the past and gave up. It was just simpler on my laptop, which isn't a great reading experience either for an entire book. Hopefully we see some progress in this area with this new direction.
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Bump to Bradley, Ben or Phil. Please comment at least on the spirit of my question, if not on the entire law with all its details.
If you're referring to https://community.logos.com/forums/p/190556/1099139.aspx#1099139 then I don't know the answers to any of those questions, sorry.
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Logos books are hand created and hand tagged. If we were to add markup, we would just "recycle" the resource (essentially the same thing we'd do to fix a typo). Research editions and reader editions are both created this way. The difference is that the reader editions don't receive the same level of markup as a research edition. So if we updated the markup it would still be a Logos book, it would just have the tagging level of a research edition.
Not sure if this was queried. But are you saying that a "recycled" Reader edition with additional markup would still be a Reader edition, and never become a Research edition?
Tagging all (my) existing resources as Research editions doesn't mean they satisfy the requirements. Surely, many should be tagged as Reader edition? Or will you respond to complaints of inadequate markup by downgrading them to Readers edition?
There are two types of Logos books:
1. Research editions
2. Reader editions
And there is one type of ebook.
And existing collections that use the rule edition:l or edition:logos will find both types of books! So edition:logos-research may be needed.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Or will you respond to complaints of inadequate markup by downgrading them to Readers edition?
Not a lawyer, but I’d think that would be problematic having sold something claiming to be a Logos edition, then later downgrading it.
Inadequate markup can be fixed, but goodwill or good reputation, once lost, is harder to recover.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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PetahChristian said:
Not a lawyer, but I’d think that would be problematic having sold something claiming to be a Logos edition
From Ben, I'm reading that both types are Logos editions. Perhaps "downgrading" is too strong a word for demoting it!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Jeremy Hulsey said:
I'm not really enthused at all about this. Logos is not Kindle and it's users didn't purchase the program for a reading library. This seems to me to be a waste of time and resources for a program that's devoted to Bible study and its related fields. I hope this is a short venture.
I remain open to the idea for two reasons.
- There are many resources which would be "fine" as FLEB titles, but having nicer formatting would be appreciated. Consider THIS title. FL sells it as a "Logos Edition," but why? The formatting is certainly better, but there is no other "logos" benefit. FL sells it for $17.99. The current (standard, non-sale) Kindle price is $11.99. If the pricing is able to be kept closer to the $12 price point, I would be glad. In any case, there is nothing lost with the new "reader edition" edition type.
- There are many resources which take YEARS to come to Logos and really could benefit from a full "Logos Edition" treatment... but having the book in my Library NOW would be beneficial. If nothing else, think of the seminary student who has to choose between a much inferior Kindle edition of a brand new textbook or the print version. For many (many!) years, I have promoted an idea where people could pay up front for a pre-order Logos edition and get a FLEB title now. I see this in that fashion.
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JT (alabama24) said:Jeremy Hulsey said:
I'm not really enthused at all about this. Logos is not Kindle and it's users didn't purchase the program for a reading library. This seems to me to be a waste of time and resources for a program that's devoted to Bible study and its related fields. I hope this is a short venture.
I remain open to the idea for two reasons.
- There are many resources which would be "fine" as FLEB titles, but having nicer formatting would be appreciated. Consider THIS title. FL sells it as a "Logos Edition," but why? The formatting is certainly better, but there is no other "logos" benefit. FL sells it for $17.99. The current (standard, non-sale) Kindle price is $11.99. If the pricing is able to be kept closer to the $12 price point, I would be glad. In any case, there is nothing lost with the new "reader edition" edition type.
- There are many resources which take YEARS to come to Logos and really could benefit from a full "Logos Edition" treatment... but having the book in my Library NOW would be beneficial. If nothing else, think of the seminary student who has to choose between a much inferior Kindle edition of a brand new textbook or the print version. For many (many!) years, I have promoted an idea where people could pay up front for a pre-order Logos edition and get a FLEB title now. I see this in that fashion.
I agree and I wonder what will happen w/ FLEB. Is FLEB an even lower standard than reader editions? There are a few titles in there that the formatting is terrible but from what I understand that is a completely automated process.
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Will the adoption of this strategy make bringing to Logos much anticipated resources like the missing Baylor Handbook series more likely? This was promised to be in the works. Another want would be BAGD. And other unicorns such as the return to the catalogue of Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible and the abandoned project to translate Ceslas Spicq's The Epistle to the Hebrews.
Great question. I'm glad you raised it.
Most of the resources you mention are not in our format due to licensing issues rather than production costs.
None of those specific books would qualify for readers editions because they would benefit significantly from full markup/tagging.
In theory, though, there may be books that have been on hold that could move forward.
For the immediate future, a majority of reader editions will focus on new books that wouldn't normally get produced if we were doing a full markup.
Does that help/make sense?
Senior Director, Content Products
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Mattillo said:
There are a few titles in there that the formatting is terrible but from what I understand that is a completely automated process.
I purchased a few eBooks from Logos where the formatting was so off that the resources essentially had no text. "A Parent's Guide to the Bible" is the latest one of them. Even though the creation of this e-book might be a completely automated process, Logos still needs to have a brief glance at such resources. It does not take more than a few seconds to realize that there is something wrong with it.
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Thanks, Ben!Beloved Amodeo said:Will the adoption of this strategy make bringing to Logos much anticipated resources like the missing Baylor Handbook series more likely? This was promised to be in the works. Another want would be BAGD. And other unicorns such as the return to the catalogue of Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible and the abandoned project to translate Ceslas Spicq's The Epistle to the Hebrews.
Great question. I'm glad you raised it.
Most of the resources you mention are not in our format due to licensing issues rather than production costs.
None of those specific books would qualify for readers editions because they would benefit significantly from full markup/tagging.
In theory, though, there may be books that have been on hold that could move forward.
For the immediate future, a majority of reader editions will focus on new books that wouldn't normally get produced if we were doing a full markup.
Does that help/make sense?
You amplify on what Bradley has said and answered what he left unanswered. I appreciate that. Of course you gather from my tone that I am more interested in the impact that Readers Editions will have on the production of Reference Editions. I'm hoping it will lead to a marked reduction the time it takes for these works to come to market. Nevertheless, I support this new venture and hope that it will have a positive impact overall. I'm projecting, but I gather Reader's Editions will have there own dedicated forum once released.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3.2 1TB SSD
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Mattillo said:
I agree and I wonder what will happen w/ FLEB
Nothing. FLEB titles are auto converted and have a different kind of licensing agreements between FL & Publishers. Some titles would not be available to us except for FLEB.
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JTJT (alabama24) said:Mattillo said:I agree and I wonder what will happen w/ FLEB
Nothing. FLEB titles are auto converted and have a different kind of licensing agreements between FL & Publishers. Some titles would not be available to us except for FLEB.
I don't agree. This is a question I arrived at independently and discussed with my sales rep. He did not have the answer. I don't think you can dismiss this question with the answer "Nothing" because one of FL's motives for introducing the Reader category is to improve on the quality of some ebooks. I think this question should be answered by FL. Will the introduction of the Reader tend towards the disappearance of some, most or all FLEBs? Or will cost and market influences still prevail and FLEBs still be a viable category?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3.2 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Will the introduction of the Reader tend towards the disappearance of some, most or all FLEBs? Or will cost and market influences still prevail and FLEBs still be a viable category?
FL may or may not respond. They typically don't, but they have done so here. However, If they do respond I feel comfortable that my answer will stand. Amish romance novels will not become "Logos Reader" books. Some publishers have decided not to play with Logos, so Faithlife puts them into FLEB.
Am I missing your point?
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No JT,JT (alabama24) said:Am I missing your point?
Not exactly, but you are blurring the edges. We both know that Amish Romance novels will never be Readers, but books by Rob Bell could make the cut. The overall catalogue is going to shift. Just how much is in the hands of Logos. This is my point and the question I would like a clear answer on.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3.2 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
This is my point and the question I would like a clear answer on.
To my mind, you are asking the impossible. I would expect the dividing line to develop slowly as FL evaluated the reception of the new option.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ,MJ. Smith said:Beloved Amodeo said:This is my point and the question I would like a clear answer on.
To my mind, you are asking the impossible. I would expect the dividing line to develop slowly as FL evaluated the reception of the new option.
I respect this response. I'm not asking for quantification; I'm more interested in intent. This I believe has an answer. Now.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3.2 1TB SSD
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Bump to Ben, Bradley or Phil. Come on FL team both JT and MJ are of the opinion that you will not respond to the toughest questions. Prove them wrong. I'm not in fear of your answer whether it be a dismissal, guess, or revealing conjecture.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3.2 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Bump to Ben, Bradley or Phil. Come on FL team both JT and MJ are of the opinion that you will not respond to the toughest questions. Prove them wrong. I'm not in fear of your answer whether it be a dismissal, guess, or revealing conjecture.
We have no plans to get rid of FL Ebooks. It will continue to house many books that would never be worth investing in for Logos (reader edition or otherwise). In fact, we would like to grow our offering of FL ebooks.
That said, there will be books that were ebooks that will be made Logos reader editions. I don't know how many. We don't have a specific plan to work through the backlist content.
Does that get at your question?
Senior Director, Content Products
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Doc B said:
Surprised no one has given the simple answer.
How simple did you want:
- e-Book - automated process only
- Logos Reader - basic Logos coding but without the more manual elements such as labels and time line
- Logos Research - the "every thing bagel" version
At least that's what I thought has been said.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Got it - sorry I'm on my first cup of coffee[:$]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Bump to Ben, Bradley or Phil. Come on FL team both JT and MJ are of the opinion that you will not respond to the toughest questions. Prove them wrong. I'm not in fear of your answer whether it be a dismissal, guess, or revealing conjecture.
We have no plans to get rid of FL Ebooks. It will continue to house many books that would never be worth investing in for Logos (reader edition or otherwise). In fact, we would like to grow our offering of FL ebooks.
That said, there will be books that were ebooks that will be made Logos reader editions. I don't know how many. We don't have a specific plan to work through the backlist content.
Does that get at your question?]
Answered masterfully. Thank you.
My, this discussion has grown. Doc B, hilarious[:D]
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3.2 1TB SSD
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