Favorite Wordsearch Features
Comments
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MAYBE THIS IS NOT THE PLACE, BUT I DO WISH THAT FAITHLIFE WOULD CORRECT SO MANY ERRORS IN PRODUCTS BROUGHT OVER, FOR EXAMPLE DAILY LIGHT ON DAILY PATH DEVOTIONAL IS OT THE SAME VERSION OF THE WORK, EVERY PAGE HAS LINKS THAT DO NOT WORK, AND THERE IS NO MORNING AND EVENING DEVOTIONS, ONLY ONE, DATES ARE NOT USED ETC., THIS IS NOT THE SAME PRODUCT AS WORDSEARCH, AS A LONG TIME LOGOS USE I AM DISAPPOINTED. I WAS HAPPY AT THE MERGE, NOW I WISH IT NEVER HAPPENED. THANKS FOR LISTENING
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Roger S. Pimpo said:
I DO WISH THAT FAITHLIFE WOULD CORRECT SO MANY ERRORS IN PRODUCTS BROUGHT OVER
DLDP is currently an Ebook. (automatically scanned and tagged). Faithlife has asked us to be patient as the 10s of 1000s of titles are brought up to Faithlife standards.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Welcome to the forums. Please come frequently and ask questions. To hear the words pronounced in a Bible, right click on the word, select lemma on the left and speaker on the right:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I took a sabbatical for a year and a half and when I opened my wordsearch lo and behold I was surprised to discover soon after that Lifeway sold everything to Faithlife and I didn't even know! Now I cannot download what I already owned. What I had in resources was migrated to logos with now way to check if all migrated successfully at 100%.
Now I am finding all the functions I am used to I cannot find or do in Logos, the more expensive software which I always coined, "The wealthy pastor's bible software".
Carousel feature is when I scroll through the scripture 'everything' in my layout would scroll with it. For example I used 5 panes. Logos has a max of 4.
Here's what the main four looked like:
In the Top Left corner was all my cross referencing resources. Just below was all my favorite dictionaries.
In the Top Right was the Scripture with tabs for all my favorite English and Greek versions. Just below in the Bottom Right was the commentary section with tabs of all my most used commentaries.
HERE'S HOW IT WORKED:
When I scroll through the scripture all the commentaries and cross references scrolled with it. Any commentary that didn't write anything about that verse quickly vanished only showing which ones did.
It appears that I now have to pay MORE and MORE money to have the features I used to have, or worse...do without even if I was a wealthy enough person to afford it. Wordsearch was basically a "ministry" of LIfeway to pastors. It was inexpensive an affordable. They probably didn't really make much at all. What a blessing!
What does our Lord Jesus have to say to Lifeway and to Faithlife (aka MoneyLIfe) if he were writing them a letter like he did the seven churches of Asia Minor?
"Nevertheless, I have this against you..."
Shame on the wealthy owner of Faithlife who could do SO much more for ministers of the gospel of grace!
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I want the carousel function feature that was in Wordsearch. If you have never used Wordsearch than you might not be familiar with its functions. Has Faithlife considered offering an experienced Wordsearch user or trainer to help them understand what has been lost to us?
I created 5 window panes in my layout. There were no maximum panes in Wordsearch or how you laid out your columns as there is in Logos.
Once you configured your layout you could continue to save multiple layouts. Now comes the most important part:
As a WS user scrolled through the scripture pane all their commentaries, cross reference panes, etc would scroll or carousel with the scripture. If there was not an entry by a commentary for that particular verse then that tab would vanish and reappear when it did.
For the life of me, I cannot find a way to do this in logos and I was able to study much faster and deeper this way without constantly changing resources. Also I can't simply choose an entire commentary set for a tab...I have to select which volume rather than have all my favorites loaded in tabs which simply appeared as you scrolled through the scripture.
I just can see that in logos yet. It's easy to talk about the "greatness" of Logos when you have only been a Logos user and have never experienced Wordsearch. I could also do an inline search of my entire library and perhaps I can here to but when I did it in WS each resource opened in a new tab in the "appropriate" window pane in my layout.
I didn't even know this migration and acquisition took place until last weekend and it appears that Faithlife (aka Moneylife) doesn't seem to care to give me an exe of my purchased WS10 and 11 but have already shutdown the servers for them. Just wonderful! I am sure Jesus is just ecstatic over how this transition has taken place especially that most of the WS users are not mega pastors with mega salaries who can afford the "exorbitant" prices that faithlife charges for its resources while LIfeway was more of a "ministry" to pastors making it very, very affordable.
I would simply call my salesman, text him personally, email him anytime night or day and he would sell what I wanted for even less than the sale price on the WS website which was always 1/3 to 2/3 cheaper than logos was charging and as always your personal sales person would thrown in some free resources with EVERY purchase!! Very loving people and located in the U.S. in Nashville. Now I talk to people in Mexico who the owner has put to work in place of the all the U.S citizens out of work right now.
Wow! I'm very upset if you couldn't tell.
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I want the carousel function feature that was in Wordsearch. If you have never used Wordsearch than you might not be familiar with its functions. Has Faithlife considered offering an experienced Wordsearch user or trainer to help them understand what has been lost to us?
I created 5 window panes in my layout. There were no maximum panes in Wordsearch or how you laid out your columns as there is in Logos.
Once you configured your layout you could continue to save multiple layouts. Now comes the most important part:
As a WS user scrolled through the scripture pane all their commentaries, cross reference panes, etc would scroll or carousel with the scripture. If there was not an entry by a commentary for that particular verse then that tab would vanish and reappear when it did.
For the life of me, I cannot find a way to do this in logos and I was able to study much faster and deeper this way without constantly changing resources. Also I can't simply choose an entire commentary set for a tab...I have to select which volume rather than have all my favorites loaded in tabs which simply appeared as you scrolled through the scripture.
I just can see that in logos yet. It's easy to talk about the "greatness" of Logos when you have only been a Logos user and have never experienced Wordsearch. I could also do an inline search of my entire library and perhaps I can here to but when I did it in WS each resource opened in a new tab in the "appropriate" window pane in my layout.
I didn't even know this migration and acquisition took place until last weekend and it appears that Faithlife (aka Moneylife) doesn't seem to care to give me an exe of my purchased WS10 and 11 but have already shutdown the servers for them. Just wonderful! I am sure Jesus is just ecstatic over how this transition has taken place especially that most of the WS users are not mega pastors with mega salaries who can afford the "exorbitant" prices that faithlife charges for its resources while LIfeway was more of a "ministry" to pastors making it very, very affordable.
I would simply call my salesman, text him personally, email him anytime night or day and he would sell what I wanted for even less than the sale price on the WS website which was always 1/3 to 2/3 cheaper than logos was charging and as always your personal sales person would thrown in some free resources with EVERY purchase!! Very loving people and located in the U.S. in Nashville. Now I talk to people in Mexico who the owner has put to work in place of the all the U.S citizens out of work right now.
Wow! I'm very upset if you couldn't tell.
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Most of what you want is available in Logos. It is just a matter of learning where and how. To get panels to scroll together see: Link Sets – Logos Help Center See Parallel Resource Sets – Logos Help Center for the carousel for commentaries. Every time you get stuck, come to the forums - you'll get 7/24 help. However, "insulting" those of us who have always used Logos is not the best way to get helpful answers from me - yes, I recognize it is just frustration but before my first cup of coffee?? I don't know how you got someone other than Bellingham or Arizona.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Evans said:
Wow! I'm very upset if you couldn't tell.
Hi Mark. Yes I can tell. I was both a WS and Logos user and had a fair amount invested in both products. I agree, the learning curve is much steeper in Logos than it was in WS. It takes some time to make the transition. Morris proctor has some good trainings and although they are on subscription basis you could subscribe for one month and then decide from there. LearnLogos also has good trainings. The folk here on the forums are very helpful. I have discovered that it works much better on the forum if I ask just one question in a post. I get more pointed suggestions and there are usually more replies to my posts. In terms of Logos provided training Wiki and Logos Features are a good place to start. One of the things I liked about WS was the online trainings, they weren't just videos to watch. We could register for a training and attend it with a few other WS users where we could ask questions. I took advantage of that numerous times. I would like to see something like that in Logos where new users could connect with more experienced users in online trainings on Zoom or some other platform. I think that would make the transition a lot easier.
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Mark Evans said:
I want the carousel function feature that was in Wordsearch.
You can setup Logos to be similar, but Logos is missing some valuable Wordsearch features.
- Bible window could be designated as a group’s “Driver” that sent sync messages but didn't change if other windows changed.
- Carousel would just skip next commentary if there was no content instead of changing reference.
- Home button on Carousel let you quickly return to your top priority commentary set
I'm hoping some of this code makes it into the next version.
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Ok, 1st let's get our terminology sorted out.
In WordSearch the feature that allowed two resources to track with each other is NOT the carousel but Groups. Logos calls this Link Sets.
See the Pictures below. Link Sets function in the same way as Groups do in WS. The difference is that WS would automatically place a newly opened resource in to a group set by default. Logos does not assume that you want this and has you assign each resource to a link set if you want them linked. In WS if you did not want them linked you had to turn the group off.
The carousel feature in WS allowed you to toggle between similar type resources (using the mouse or the L-R arrow keys) without having to have multiple tabs opened.
As MJ pointed out in her response to you Logos uses Parallel Resources to do this. Follow the link MJ supplied to learn how to do this.
You also asked..."Has Faithlife considered offering an experienced Wordsearch user or trainer to help them understand what has been lost to us?"
The Main Menu at Logos.com has a section for WordSearch.
If you open that page and scroll just a bit you will see training mentioned.
There is a link that will take you to Morris Proctor's web site. He is the Official trainer for Logos.
He put together several hours of training for WordSearch users to transition to Logos. You have to register on his site but I believe that the training for former WS users is still free.
here is the link if you cant fine it. https://www.logos.com/wordsearch-webinars
This takes you to a Logos page. The link for M.P. Seminars is at the bottom of that additional page. I have watched the training and it is not bad. It does not cover every thing but it gets you started.
three recorded training sessions
You then stated "I created 5 window panes in my layout. There were no maximum panes in Wordsearch or how you laid out your columns as there is in Logos."
There is NO limit to the number of panes that you can have open in Logos See my example below. What you do not see in that image is that I also had a floating window open on a second monitor. So that would make a total of 7 panes.
Concerning the old WS servers. Faithlife kept them up and going for at least a full year.
Concerning the WS staff, I know of at least two salesmen who now work for Faithlife. One of which was my former contact at WS.
Concerning the pricing and "Free" stuff. Logos does a far more extensive job at tagging (putting multiple links to other mentioned resources not just links to Bible verses) than WS ever did. This additional work results in added value and a higher price reflects this.
And for the discounts and "Free" stuff. For every "Discount" and "Free Resource" (and yes I received my fair share of them as well) the salesman gave out meant that that was money that WS did not receive. Money that "May" have helped to keep them afloat and in business. You can't sell your product at cost or keep giving it away for free and expect to stay in business.
Faithlife does give away free books every month. Logos, Verbum, and Faithlife all three do. They also offer books every month at greatly reduced pricing on their free book of the month web pages.
Take some time, take some training, and you will come to see that the switch to Logos IS a good thing.
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I'm a ex WordSearch user... Believe me, I understand the frustration of having our "favorite" Bible tool and one that I was very comfortable with and loved... closed down and then me being "pushed" into Logos.... which is overwhelming .... with a learning curve straight up a 20 foot wall.
The learning curve... the not knowing anything... the pricing shock... and then trying to get things done that I had to get done drove me up the proverbial wall. I finally took a deep breath... kept my studies in WordSearch as my main "go to" Bible program and then started working in Logos to learn this monster.
I remember when I first got WordSearch... I remember it was frustrating at first. But WordSearch was more simplistic in it's approach... and because of that did not have a 20 foot steep wall of learning curve. But I still had to learn it.... and that took me some time....
WordSearch will eventually fade into the sunset. We can't stop that. We can fight it, as I first tried to do, but bottom line... WordSearch will fade. I think there will come a time.. .when WordSearch will not work. It may be Windows 11 or one of the updates....
Truth... I have worked hard the past year to learn Logos. I have spent probably too many hours reading the forums... asking google... asking people on the forum.. probably being a nuisance... but in the process.... I am now becoming comfortable with Logos and now it is my "goto" Bible program. And I don't think Logos is going to "fade off to the sunset" at least not for a long while.
My suggestion is.... be patient... pray about it (it never hurts to ask God for help)... don't be cruel or mean to the people on the forum as they will help you, and start working ONLY with Logos as you can. Look up how to do things you want to do in Logos.... view the videos...there are lots of free ones in YouTube.com....(I didn't subscribe to videos like others did so it probably took me longer to learn.) Also, ask questions in the forums...The question you have, others may have also. But in the end... I think you will learn to love the flexibility that Logos has with all the different ways it has of finding stuff....
And last... as you will learn... you have a world of people that are eagerly waiting to help you.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Mark Evans said:
I was surprised to discover soon after that Lifeway sold everything to Faithlife and I didn't even know!
Mark, many of your impressions/assumptions have been shared by other WordSearch (WS) users.
If one desires a richer understanding, he/she may check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WORDsearch#History I owned WS and QuickVerse (QV) before they were acquired by Lifeway. Both of these Software packages have a history of an UNSUSTAINABLE business model and when they were doomed to closure, another party offered to acquire the resources and userbase in order to change it into something SUSTAINABLE. As someone who has participated in these acquisitions since the mid 1980's, I believe it is important to realize WS and QV have a history of going on "life support" and being rescued by another company with larger assets. There may be a subtle difference, but (having been a user of these programs for decades) Faithlife is NOT the bad guy who is shutting down competitors! WS was bound to be shut down because of its unprofitable business model!! AS AN ACT OF GOODWILL (and at what I assume to be considerable risk of capital) Faithlife offered to rework the WS resources into their business model that would be sustainable after the date that WS would have been shuttered and rendered useless (e.g. Lifeway retail stores).
I'm thankful the Faithlife provides this forum that is MOSTLY contributed by volunteer users of the software to help new users transition to effective use of this tool for the expansion of Christ's kingdom.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Hi Thomas. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to me with the detail and interest.
I did take up your offer, my brother, and so that Wikipedia had to say was a history off how WS came to me. All that it says about Lifeway is that they acquired it and later sold it. Everything you said about the "business model" seems to get your own invention and assumptions.
Listen Thomas... It only makes sense that you would come to the defence of Logos being such a long time, avid, and loyal user of Logos and have contributed much money to your library, most likely, through the years. BUT... That doesn't make you right anymore than two Christians who argue, using scripture, about their doctrinal belief of salvation.
Anyone who hasn't used WS for the same length of time and with the same depth of knowledge as they have logos can't tell a WS user how much better logos is anymore than someone who had only fly fished all his life but knows a few features about deep sea fishing can tell someone about deep sea fishing and how it's a bad model and how much better fly fishing is because, after all, they've done it for so long.
I know logos users, automatically "feel" that logos is superior to WS and most logos users I've encountered somehow seen to know why although they have not used logic as extensively, albeit there are a handful.
My "beef" is more with the moral issues with this exchange. Outside you should look up the owner of logos and his income. Lifeway had a very successful business for all things lifeway and are one of the largest, if not then largest online Christian bookstore and have other successful subsidiary ventures. I don't think they sold out because they were failing as you have assumed. But wait! I'm assuming to, right? Yes! But I'm doing what we can in theology and hermeneutics a "safe assumption". For example: Abraham and Lot went to together to the city of Sodom and then the scripture tells us Abraham left and went back to the place from which he left with Lot. Next thing you know Lot and Abraham are talking on that place almost immediately after. Safe assumption: Abraham and Lot left Sodom together although the scripture only mentions Abraham. Much like one gospel mentions more two angels at Jesus tomb and another gospel writer to only mentions one, etc.
I'm very happy for you Thomas, that you love logos so very much and how's much is helped you. I am learning it and will have to learn it.
However, i will always know that they owner of logos did not do what he "could" have done for WS users and lifeway is guilty of the same thing. I purchased this software. I should be able to just it. I don't believe Jesus sees it any different than me. All the cattle that lifeway and the sole logos owner have is NOT theirs. It's God's and i don't believe God thinks it's OK million dollar lined pockets to decide whether i get to continuev using what i purchased with God's money and choose to replace it the way they did. I believe lifeway is godly enough that if logos wouldn't have purchased it they would have kept a server running out found someone to fit so the WS owners. They wouldn't have left us in the cold. They've been extremely loving and kind always and have served pastors of all salary sizes getting poor to rich. Not so with logos.
Remember, the story Nathan told David?
Thanks again Thomas. I love you and pray God's continued blessings.
Mark
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Hi Thomas. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to me with the detail and interest.
I did take up your offer, my brother, and so that Wikipedia had to say was a history off how WS came to me. All that it says about Lifeway is that they acquired it and later sold it. Everything you said about the "business model" seems to get your own invention and assumptions.
Listen Thomas... It only makes sense that you would come to the defence of Logos being such a long time, avid, and loyal user of Logos and have contributed much money to your library, most likely, through the years. BUT... That doesn't make you right anymore than two Christians who argue, using scripture, about their doctrinal belief of salvation.
Anyone who hasn't used WS for the same length of time and with the same depth of knowledge as they have logos can't tell a WS user how much better logos is anymore than someone who had only fly fished all his life but knows a few features about deep sea fishing can tell someone about deep sea fishing and how it's a bad model and how much better fly fishing is because, after all, they've done it for so long.
I know logos users, automatically "feel" that logos is superior to WS and most logos users I've encountered somehow seen to know why although they have not used logic as extensively, albeit there are a handful.
My "beef" is more with the moral issues with this exchange. Outside you should look up the owner of logos and his income. Lifeway had a very successful business for all things lifeway and are one of the largest, if not then largest online Christian bookstore and have other successful subsidiary ventures. I don't think they sold out because they were failing as you have assumed. But wait! I'm assuming to, right? Yes! But I'm doing what we can in theology and hermeneutics a "safe assumption". For example: Abraham and Lot went to together to the city of Sodom and then the scripture tells us Abraham left and went back to the place from which he left with Lot. Next thing you know Lot and Abraham are talking on that place almost immediately after. Safe assumption: Abraham and Lot left Sodom together although the scripture only mentions Abraham. Much like one gospel mentions more two angels at Jesus tomb and another gospel writer to only mentions one, etc.
I'm very happy for you Thomas, that you love logos so very much and how's much is helped you. I am learning it and will have to learn it.
However, i will always know that they owner of logos did not do what he "could" have done for WS users and lifeway is guilty of the same thing. I purchased this software. I should be able to just it. I don't believe Jesus sees it any different than me. All the cattle that lifeway and the sole logos owner have is NOT theirs. It's God's and i don't believe God thinks it's OK million dollar lined pockets to decide whether i get to continuev using what i purchased with God's money and choose to replace it the way they did. I believe lifeway is godly enough that if logos wouldn't have purchased it they would have kept a server running out found someone to fit so the WS owners. They wouldn't have left us in the cold. They've been extremely loving and kind always and have served pastors of all salary sizes getting poor to rich. Not so with logos.
Remember, the story Nathan told David?
Thanks again Thomas. I love you and pray God's continued blessings.
Mark
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Mark Evans said:
Listen Thomas... It only makes sense that you would come to the defence of Logos being such a long time, avid, and loyal user of Logos and have contributed much money to your library, most likely, through the years. BUT... That doesn't make you right anymore than two Christians who argue, using scripture, about their doctrinal belief of salvation.
Mark Evans said:I know logos users, automatically "feel" that logos is superior to WS
Please consider that I owned WordSearch and used it for 15 years BEFORE I ever tried Logos. My experience is no more/less authoritative than any other user. I simply assert that my pleasure with Logos is more than a "feel" and any "loyalty" is not because of the amount of money, but rather the experience of using both, experiencing the stability of one business model that has endured, AND experiencing another business model that forced ownership transitions.
I'm not trying to inspire any loyalty on your part to this product. I can deduce that your experience with the transition from one platform to another has been (continues to be?) difficult. I have admired the journey of XNMAN (a person whom I have never met apart from this forum), who was not pleased with the forced transition, but chose to assume the best intentions of others and has found joy in current study tools. I'm simply trying to say that in my experience, WS lived out the repercussions of its business model.
Blessings to you in your study of God's precious Word and both of our conformity to the image of Christ.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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I agree with you, David. I've owned WordSearch since its inception and have quite a library. I purchased Logos a little while later and have had the program for well over 10 years. I've found Logos exceeded WordSearch in the overall program. I can't even begin to list what areas excel, there are so many. I very much appreciated the fact that all my books in WordSearch are being incorporated into Logos. That, in itself, is an enormous task. Logos has been a blessing to me. They have made available to me resources and the ability to glean, from a huge array of books, information that would have taken me weeks, if not longer, to gather from printed books. I found that I was able to gather specific resources that were not available to me in WordSearch (e.g. Reformed Books/Commentaries). I like the ZipScript feature in WordSearch, and would like that incorporated into Logos. The copy verse application in Logos is not the same. ZipScript maintains its proper format when you insert a verse in a bulleted point. Both the heading and the verse stay within the margins and within the bullet point. Not so, with Logos. The Passage Guide shows Commentaries specific to the verse or verses you are referencing. When you reference a Scripture verse, WordSearch will populate all the Commentaries that mentions that verse. You can look at one commentary and see where it appears many times in the Old and New Testament that has a mention of the verse you referenced. That would be a great option in Logos. You can "sort of" do that same thing by going to Collections, but it's not the same by far. In Collections, you have to choose from many types of Commentaries, instead of them all appearing under one tab like WordSearch. I'm a WordSearch and Logos user, and I find Logos to be harder to learn but superior.
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depdad said:
In Collections, you have to choose from many types of Commentaries, instead of them all appearing under one tab like WordSearch.
I had noticed your comment on this in another thread and waited for someone more knowledgeable than I to comment, because it appears (to my limited knowledge) to be very simple. When you create a Guide do you have the option highlighted in yellow - all commentaries? My passage guide contains both a section of all commentaries and various sections for collections of types of commentaries (blue highlights). If the "more" button slows you down I believe that can be adjusted in the "settings" - searching more than 10 at a time will slow down the search but the ability to see "all" may be worth a tradeoff in search speed for you.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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David Thomas: I do have the option for All Commentaries. The only ones that populate are the ones that directly refer to the Scripture verse(s) that I am referencing. They exclude the commentaries that may mention my referenced verse(s), but are mainly commenting on another Scripture verse>
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depdad said:
They exclude the commentaries that may mention my referenced verse(s), but are mainly commenting on another Scripture verse
Thank you for clarifying! I see where my observation is not relevant to your request. If I understand correctly, you are hoping for wherever a commentary has a 1. main section, 2. a cross reference, or 3. a footnote that speaks to your search.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Important passages is the section that comes closest to the information he wants. While I can see the data being useful for very small libraries, I'm having trouble seeing it as useful for larger libraries - for example Mark 1:1-8 gives me 491 to / 306 from references or 2 Tim 3:16 gives me 258 to/227 from passages ... I get data overload very quickly.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Important passages is the section that comes closest to the information he wants
I'm not so sure about that. Important Passages is an auto-curated filter of typically high-value references - very cool widget, but different than the WS tool in question. I know the tool he's talking about: the Cross Reference Explorer - a tool introduced in WS8 (2007), which literally ran a library search for the (tagged) active verse reference, and presented a library tree of filtered resources (i.e. all resources with hits from among those included in the selected Collections scope) providing hotlinks to results, which when selected would be previewed in an adjacent pane. pic below.
I think the Logos tool that comes closest to that is the Cited By tool. In fact, I think it could be configured to work almost identically, except for the large format preview pane in WS (the Logos previews are smaller but can be always visible, and easier to use in my opinion). It would admittedly take some library management work to create Collections or taggings adequate to mimic the WS library tree breakdown, but it would be both doable and customizable in Logos.
To test the theory, I picked a verse (Neh 10:28) I figured would return a relatively small number of hits (hence easy to count), and ran lookups against my entire WS library using XRef Explorer, and against all the resources I have manually applied a tag of "WS" to in my Logos library. This is not quite apples-to-apples since the Logos lookup would not have included the non-trivial number of resources I'd already duplicated in my Logos library prior to the Wordsearch merger, but it would be close enough for government work. I could spot check specific resources to see if the details matched.
Findings: The Cited By tool found 161 hits in the "WS"-tagged resources (according to the results screen), and the XRef Explorer returned 206 hits from my complete WS library (based on my manual counting of hits in the results tree - no summary data or export option available). That was consistent with what I'd expect based on the "extra" resources in the original WS library grouping. I then ran spot checks on several resources and found the identified hits were the same in each - which is no surprise, as the tools are doing the same thing.
I then changed the verse number and re-ran both xref search tools: the Logos results came back basically instantly; the Wordsearch results came back in about two seconds or so, after the green search bar ran across the bottom of the app window.
Verdict: The Logos Cited By tool is a perfectly adequate replacement for the Wordsearch XRef Explorer. The Wordsearch tool is a little easier to understand out of the box, but the Logos tool performs the exact same lookup, is faster at searching, more customizable, provides vastly faster & easier views of results previews if desired (but the short previews can also be turned off if desired by setting "Compact View" for the pane), the results can be ordered within groups by either alpha (like WS) or by ranking (favorites first), and the results can be printed or exported to a document, unlike WS.
Logos clearly already has the superior tool in this category.
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Thanks for actually doing the comparison. My comments were based solely on the documentation:
[quote]
Data for this dataset is aggregated using a process similar to that of Lemma in Passage and also the Important Words dataset. However, instead of retrieving information about Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic words, the process retrieves information about references cited in the context of discussion about a passage.For example, if a commentary provides commentary on John 1:1, it likely references other passages in the Bible in its commentary discussion. It may reference Genesis 1:1, or John 1:17, or Mark 1:1. This dataset is based on an analysis that tracks which references are cited in commentary discussions on particular passages. It aggregates all of this data across the entire set of commentaries available to Logos Bible Software.
In addition to commentaries, notes from Study Bibles were evaluated. We also evaluated existing cross reference resources (like the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. Cross references within Bibles were evaluated too.
In addition to those, we also did an analysis of several Hebrew and Greek lexicons, aggregating information about which lexicons cited which references in word level articles. This involved an alignment of lexica on the headword/term level to aggregate common references used when discussing the headword (or lemma).
From this point, other datasets that associate references are evaluated to determine potential reasons for the reference. Perhaps the associated references both have something to do with the cultural concept of Creation. Or perhaps they are synoptic parallels. Or maybe they both involve theophanies. Or maybe they are both frequently cited in lexicon articles for the same original language word that happens to occur in the verse.
All of this data was then aggregated, and the triple (milestone reference, cross reference, and reason) was evaluated and scored. The dataset provides access to the cross references and the reasons, and allows them to be listed and sorted by importance score.
Rick Brannan, Important Passages: Dataset Documentation (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2018).
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The feature I miss most is ease of use, Wordsearch was very user friendly. Logos 9 I have had it for over a year and I am still having issue trying to find just basic information. There are a lot of days I just pull out my old windows computer and Wordsearch welcomes me back home with ease of use.
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William E. Martin said:
I have had it for over a year and I am still having issue trying to find just basic information.
Sounds to me like you haven't been asking enough questions on the forums. Most basic information is easily found IF you know how. Can you give an example?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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One of the features I liked about Wordsearch was the Notes Tool. It is simple to use and easy to navigate. All I had to do was click on the Note icon and a floating window opened automatically linked to the Bible verse I was on. I could create all the same text and links and pictures on the screen and it even had an UNDO icon in case I accidentally erased something. Easy to navigate to other notes without the need of a filter and the notes were arranged by Bible reference automatically.
That said, believe me I love the sophistication of Logos and it has way more features than Wordsearch. However, Logos really over-engineered the Notes Tool. Just give me a way to create notes on a Bible verse and more the other features (highlighting, etc) to my Documents.
Please don't rip me up about how I can do this or that in Logos. You asked what I like about Wordsearch and I answered.
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I just thought of one more feature I liked about Wordearch, the ability to create my personal documents (i.e. PBBs) directly in the program and to be able to edit the document directly in Wordsearch and then re-save. No looking for the file in the directory where I placed it and editing in Word and re-building. I could add text, hyperlinks, and pictures with no issues, just copy/paste, and save.
Just saying, I liked that a lot.
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Gary Pajkos said:
and more the other features (highlighting, etc) to my Documents.
You have no idea how many times I had to read this to understand what you meant. The power of a simple typo.
PS. I disagree - to me highlights are simply a visual note rather than a verbal note.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Gary Pajkos said:
I just thought of one more feature I liked about Wordearch, the ability to create my personal documents (i.e. PBBs) directly in the program and to be able to edit the document directly in Wordsearch and then re-save. No looking for the file in the directory where I placed it and editing in Word and re-building. I could add text, hyperlinks, and pictures with no issues, just copy/paste, and save.
Just saying, I liked that a lot.
Believe me, I have felt your pain. WS had some features that I still catch myself trying to do in Logos (InstaVerse)... and there are times I just fire up WS and do some of the things... I find of especial complicated is the Search in Logos... I understand it a little now... but I find it hard to remember to use...
Another "real" issue for me is ZipScript. So far it still works... but I'm afearing Logos is going to drop it and eventually it won't work for whatever reason.... then I will cry... I use it all the time..... [:'(]
But I'm like when the Hebrews came out of Egypt and saw Pharaoh's army coming after them...they forgot what God had done for them and wanted to go back... maybe progress is not easy....
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Sorry for my mistake. I appreciate your perspective. My only point was to be able to see my Bible reference notes quickly, easily, in reference order without having to filter each time I click on a note.
It's boils down to my personal preference. That saying, I am fine using the Logos notes tool and I especially love that I can share my notes with my sons via the group we created in My Faithlife. Now that is worth it all !!!!
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Gary Pajkos said:
Sorry for my mistake. I appreciate your perspective. My only point was to be able to see my Bible reference notes quickly, easily, in reference order without having to filter each time I click on a note.
It's boils down to my personal preference. That saying, I am fine using the Logos notes tool and I especially love that I can share my notes with my sons via the group we created in My Faithlife. Now that is worth it all !!!!
If your not already.... I will suggest you make use of the "tag" option in a note in Logos. You can put in that "tag" what you think the note is about.... and then the search feature in Notes to find the note you are looking for. It's not perfect.... but it does work to a degree.
The other thing... which you may have figured out....is when you load up Notes... the "sidebar" has 2 options - "Filters" or "Notebooks" --- choose the "Filters" option and you can scroll down the list of "tags" to find what you are looking for.
I know, I know.... WordSearch Notes was pretty slick in they way they let you choose your notes. But Logos does work after a fashion.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Agree, the carousal and search feature in WordSeach was so much easier and I liked the Library feature in WS, it was easier to find my books. It has been two years, are they working on it?
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Agree, the carousal and search feature in WordSeach was so much easier and I liked the Library feature in WS, it was easier to find my books. It has been two years, are they working on it?
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Perhaps, we could offer tips that would help. How did WS carousal differ from parallel resources i.e. what specific aspect of the feature do you need added?
Susonne said:It has been two years, are they working on it?
Working on what? Again, what specific aspect of the feature do you need to find your books more easily?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Carousel had aspects that were helpful:
1) A Bible in another window can be designated as a driver. The driver reference will not change if the linked books in my commentary window are scrolled or changed to another reference. The driver reference remains as an anchor point.
2) If I cycle to the next book in my commentary window, the commentary will use the reference from the driver Bible, not the reference from the last commentary.
3) If a commentary has no nearby links to the reference, the carousel will skip that commentary.
4) A home button let me instantly return to the first commentary in my carousel for the commentary window.
Example: I have Psalm 1:1 open in my Driver Bible. My commentary window opens to Psalm 1:1. If I scroll the commentary to Psalm 1:4, the Bible window stays at Psalm 1:1. If I then cycle the commentary window to the next commentary, the next commentary will open at Psalm 1:1.
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Thanks for the description - designating a driver as been a long term request from Logos users. So far the improvements in this area are edging us closer but not quite there.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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John Simpson said:
3) If a commentary has no nearby links to the reference, the carousel will skip that commentary.
Parallel resource sets could work this way if they used the same logic as the passage guide in displaying commentaries.
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John Simpson said:
Carousel had aspects that were helpful:
1) A Bible in another window can be designated as a driver. The driver reference will not change if the linked books in my commentary window are scrolled or changed to another reference. The driver reference remains as an anchor point.
2) If I cycle to the next book in my commentary window, the commentary will use the reference from the driver Bible, not the reference from the last commentary.
3) If a commentary has no nearby links to the reference, the carousel will skip that commentary.
4) A home button let me instantly return to the first commentary in my carousel for the commentary window.
Example: I have Psalm 1:1 open in my Driver Bible. My commentary window opens to Psalm 1:1. If I scroll the commentary to Psalm 1:4, the Bible window stays at Psalm 1:1. If I then cycle the commentary window to the next commentary, the next commentary will open at Psalm 1:1.
I agree. There are some WordSearch features that would enhance Logos... this is one of them.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Bill McVicker said:
Hi,
1) Zipscript, as others have said it allows you to paste Bible verses even if Logos is not running as well as it doesn't matter what program your pasting into.
2) In WS you can right-click on a Strong's number in a Bible passage and search where else that word was used in the Bible. This is very handy and quick when looking for additional comparisons of how a word.is translated and used.
3) I love the Strong's talking dictionary (which I see is in process)
I quit using the strongs number 30 years ago. In Logos you can use the Lemma which is the dictionary form of any biblical word and consult your lexicons on that particular word. This is a much more efficient system. Currently, I have the Strongs number turned off in my interlinear bibles. Bible Word Study guide will be your friend if you use it and prioritize your go to lexicons for Greek and Hebrew.
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Matt Hamrick said:Bill McVicker said:
Hi,
1) Zipscript, as others have said it allows you to paste Bible verses even if Logos is not running as well as it doesn't matter what program your pasting into.
2) In WS you can right-click on a Strong's number in a Bible passage and search where else that word was used in the Bible. This is very handy and quick when looking for additional comparisons of how a word.is translated and used.
3) I love the Strong's talking dictionary (which I see is in process)
I quit using the strongs number 30 years ago. In Logos you can use the Lemma which is the dictionary form of any biblical word and consult your lexicons on that particular word. This is a much more efficient system. Currently, I have the Strongs number turned off in my interlinear bibles. Bible Word Study guide will be your friend if you use it and prioritize your go to lexicons for Greek and Hebrew.
I believe you can also right click on a word, select the lemma, and run a search for the lemma. It works similar to how Strong’s Number searching worked in Wordsearch, but more precise.
I believe Bible Word Study can also show Hebrew and Greek Pronunciations if you have those resources purchased. They work as well as Talking Strong’s.
Dr. Nathan Parker
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The Wordsearch carousel opened the book into a readable size and then you flipped through the different versions, all in a readable format. Logos' parallel opens in different tabs side-by-side and each version is to thin to compare. I agree, Wordsearch's search engine was much easier to use. I hope Logos will consider it. (2023)
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The Wordsearch carousel opened the book into a readable size and then you flipped through the different versions, all in a readable format. Logos' parallel opens in different tabs side-by-side and each version is to thin to compare. I agree, Wordsearch's search engine was much easier to use. I hope Logos will consider it. (2023)
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Susonne said:
Logos' parallel opens in different tabs side-by-side and each version is to thin to compare
This sounds like you have confused the multi-view panel with parallel resources. See Parallel Resources (logos.com)
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This may have been asked and answered, but I don't see it with a cursory examination.
The Wordsearch feature that has been most useful to me is the "Instant Verse Search." When I am doing a Bible study on a chapter, I can put the chapter into IVS, and it will search out that chapter in all the Commentaries I have chosen. Then I can copy and post it in Word.
I haven't found that feature in Logos.
Thanks, Skip
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Skip Martin said:
This may have been asked and answered, but I don't see it with a cursory examination.
The Wordsearch feature that has been most useful to me is the "Instant Verse Search." When I am doing a Bible study on a chapter, I can put the chapter into IVS, and it will search out that chapter in all the Commentaries I have chosen. Then I can copy and post it in Word.
I haven't found that feature in Logos.
Thanks, Skip
What exactly are you posting into word? The text of the commentaries on that chapter or something else?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you can use the Passage Guide to put in a passage and get all of your commentaries and collections with that passage. You can also create a Collection with all of just your favorite commentaries and then add the collection to the Cited By tool.
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Kiyah said:
If I'm understanding you correctly, you can use the Passage Guide to put in a passage and get all of your commentaries and collections with that passage. You can also create a Collection with all of just your favorite commentaries and then add the collection to the Cited By tool.
Logos is like 'choose your favorite'! Mine, relative to Skip and my layout, is Multiview. You can even highlight and add notes, along with copy to Word.
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Logos does not have IVS. The closest is either Passage guide or Explorer. It will list the commentaries for a verse or chapter so you can open, read and copy, but not copy the contents of each one to your clipboard to paste into Word.
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Is this feature available in free version? If not which version will have this feature?
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Greetings Biblelover,
Passage Guide is provided in the the free version.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Having come from WordSearch myself, I find there are many things that Logos has that are "work arounds" or "work alikes" in Logos.
For example... the "Carousal" in WS was mentioned... I find that if I use the left arrow and right arrow in Logos in my bible... it works like the Carousal.
One thing that I do not find an equivalent for in Logos is ZipScript. In Logos there is the Ctrl+Alt+B command which work in a way.... it's just not as smooth as Zipscript.
imho ..... [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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While I will admit it took a long time to "teach this old dog a new trick" in Logos the closest thing I found was the Copy Bible verses which is in the tools listed under the passage section. When I placed it in there I found I was able to copy whatever Bible verse I was working on if I wanted to copy more than one verse all I needed to do was highlight those verses.
But I am not saying it's better than zip script which I also had when I was using Wordsearch.
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