I am guessing you are looking at raw data that has all those duplicates of licenses we already had in our account, and if you remove all the duplicates, you should get counts closer to what I stated.Your guess is wrong.
What we have is the data we got from LifeWay. In that data, you have 7,055 "self reported" CROSS IDs. 6,298 of these are distinct from the 2,268 CROSS IDs you own in the Sales Database.I might not have made it clear that the numbers I reported earlier are all unique counts. Of course we de-duplicated the data.
So it sounds like you are taking actions and making conclusions about a process someone else created that you simply do not fully understand.You said it.
WORDsearch books that will not be migrated to Logos
Comments
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Your guess is wrong.
I might not have made it clear that the numbers I reported earlier are all unique counts. Of course we de-duplicated the data.
Since as I said before, a lot of this stuff started out with OLD book IDs and WORDsearch told me later they started using newer Book IDs, While you say this is unique data, any chance at one point WORDsearch finally updated their data base to add the equivalent newer IDs by adding new records without deleting the older ones? That could make then unique while also being duplicates as equivalent book titles under separate book ids?
Bottom line is I have much fewer books in my library and if it is not skipping duplicates as you suggest being unique, and nothing extra shows up in my library, so it is either as you suggested data corruption or loaded with obsolete older book IDs that have since been replaced with the newer one like WORDsearch Customer Service told me about as the reason why some of my current books did not show up as purchased in the newer library sets with the same books when doing the dynamic pricing purchases mentioned above. If it does not show up in my Library, then whatever extra is meaningless, or it is older IDs no longer recognized.
That is why it would have been helpful if WORDsearch had simply added those older CDs many of which still used the older IDs into the Store, so they could be recognized as collections rather than individual WORDsearch format books. If they did that with the STEP books which they had to do so those could release download of the newer formats under the same titles, you would have thought it would have not taken much more to do that for those later CDs. I know too late, but they are the one that made that complicated, not me. But they had to do that for STEP books to get the conversion updates, too bad they did not do that with the rest. They entered several CDs manually in the store as we discussed a few but not the entire collection.
Plus if as has been suggested, why would anyone hack that and put meaningless data in their database that does not open real books. There has to be a reason for those extra records, unless cross reference IDs or corruption, because the net effect is zero increase on my part.
I mentioned above reading a post about a Backup and Restore bug. Any chance I could have done a backup then later restore and the zip file got corrupted before the restore operation? I never read when they fixed that or if it was fix, but assumed it was fixed in later versions. All I can say is my library looks as it should, and I recently installed WS12 on a different PC and let it restore the licenses from the Website instead of backup, and it looks normal. Plus those extra books did not show up in your Migration Status before you removed any unverified licenses, just like they do not show up in my WS12, so whatever it is that is unrecognizable data by both those ways to see real books.
So if I send you a zip of the unlocks I now have, it would have been recently downloaded from the WORDsearch server during the latest install (as Jim Johnsen ‐ WORDsearch Sales Representative in the email quote above said I could do), but after you got your data your citing. Plus that data is backed up to the Cloud backup as your FAQs recommended. So you should already have access to that, but if not I can resend it. In other words I would be sending you data you already have access to in that latest Cloud Backup, which would be later than what you are looking at.
PS
Maybe I should also thank you for spending so much time trying to help even if this is not resolved yet. You are doing more than other Logos Staff so far. So thank you.
Also, you keep saying "self-reported unlocks" can you define that so I can understand what that means. You have used several terms foreign to me like that and CROSS IDs, which as a user mean very little to me without definitions or explanations.
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Ricky Daugherty said:
So if I send you a zip of the unlocks I now have, it would have been recently downloaded from the WORDsearch server during the latest install (as Jim Johnsen ‐ WORDsearch Sales Representative in the email quote above said I could do), but after you got your data your citing. Plus that data is backed up to the Cloud backup as your FAQs recommended. So you should already have access to that, but if not I can resend it. In other words I would be sending you data you already have access to in that latest Cloud Backup, which would be later than what you are looking at.
I do have access to the Cloud Backups and I see one file from 9/23 and another from 10/26. We'll take a look to see what information we can extract from them. (User license backups are not the primary data source we're working from, but they may be the missing piece in this puzzle.)
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Maybe the LifeWay data was corrupted. Maybe your account was hacked. Maybe someone found a way to crack Wordsearch's DRM then transferred their library to you. Maybe these were all completely legal purchases. I don't know. But we have reasons to be suspicious of this data, and until you (and other customers in similar situations) can provide proof of purchase, we are not treating these as legitimate licenses that we will automatically be transferring into Logos.
Still bothered by where license records that do not correspond to any books I have in my account came from. Went to bed, and my mind was still wondering, then I remember something that happened maybe a couple years ago. Been spending the last two hours searching some archived Forum Blogs from WORDsearch 11 and WORDsearch 12 looking for some posts by others that said they lost about half their library overnight, and I thought I had posted there also when I checked and lost mine. Others said they called WORDsearch and it should be fixed within 24 hours, which it was. Had I been able to find those posts, that would have given us an exact date but I can not find them. Those threads were removed after Logos took over and all posts are there under Logos items now. Those forums posted things like the Free Friday notices, and free offers by Rose Publishing for special WORDsearch bundles for friends of Rose Publishing, holiday specials, etc, and people asking questions about how to get certain features to work, because they may have been too lazy to see the WORDsearch tutorials that cover those things. Before those threads were removed, I had copied both to a PDF for each, but those posts must have been removed after WORDsearch restored our libraries.
If I could have narrowed the date down, you could have contacted WORDsearch and ask what happened and what they did to fix that. But that may have been the source of corruption, or not. Sorry I could not find the posts and get the date. Think they deleted those posts before the thread was removed. What was strange I could not find my reply, unless I did not reply to those. It may have been in 2018 or 2019 but since I can not find those posts I can NOT be more exact on when. But several people were reporting the next day when they went to WORDsearch a lot of libraries were gone, but not all of them. So what ever data thing happened, it affected us all on our PCs as they connected to the WORDsearch website to verify our licenses, and was back to normal the next day. It did not remove our books, only the access to them for about 24 hours. So it sounds like when we ran WS12 and it connected with the server and a lot of licenses were missing, when it got to the main page, most that stuff was locked again, until the next day when it could verify those unlocks were restored.
So maybe WORDsearch can remember that incident since they received a lot of calls about that and it was fixed the next day. It would not hurt to contact them and pick their brain and see what they remember and what they did to fix those. It might be related, or it may not be.
It might be the data got corrupt and they simply copied a backup list in with those corrupted records. Logic says they should have replaced those files from a backup, but I have no idea how they worked there and how competent those who fixed the records were. But they might be able to tell you more, since I am only guessing based on what I saw happen with me and what others reported there.
That may be no help, but I hope it does help.
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Ricky Daugherty said:
Been spending the last two hours searching some archived Forum Blogs from WORDsearch 11 and WORDsearch 12 looking for some posts by others that said they lost about half their library overnight, and I thought I had posted there also when I checked and lost mine. Others said they called WORDsearch and it should be fixed within 24 hours, which it was. Had I been able to find those posts, that would have given us an exact date but I can not find them. Those threads were removed after Logos took over and all posts are there under Logos items now.
What site are these blogs at? I was never able to find any Wordsearch discussions, but if you found the posts "under Logos items now" you must have the URL.
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I reviewed the unlock files in the Cloud Backup for your account from 9/23.
There were several hundred files with the name "estore_NNN.ulk". I wondered if these corresponded to Wordsearch Online Store orders, so I compared their contents to the CROSS IDs associated with the Product Codes for each Line Item in each Order. They had identical contents, so this indicates to me that these are unlock files for individual orders in the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store.
What I didn't expect to find was that the Customer ID on those orders was not your Customer ID.
In fact, there are more than 50 different Customer IDs stamped on the Orders corresponding to the Unlock Files in your Wordsearch 12 backup. Is it possible you transferred orders from other WS users to yourself? (I don't think you've mentioned this as a potential source of licenses in previous posts. I'm not even sure if it was something the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store supported.)
Here are some customer names and order IDs (redacted for privacy) to jog your memory:
Da*** Pe***: ***948, ***722, ***172, ***455, ***387
He*** Pu***: ***110, ***511, ***901, ***096, ***344
Jo*** Me***: ***311, ***396, ***462, ***685, ***499
Da*** Tr***: ***992, ***509, ***153, ***906, ***920
Sa*** Tu***: ***802, ***683, ***342, ***564, ***076
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Hi Ricky,
There's something else in the Cloud Backups I hope you can help explain.
I inspected all license backups that had been made through Wordsearch 12. Three of them, including yours, contained an unlock file named "RickyDaugherty.ulk". So two other users also had this file, with all of your unlocks. Do you know how that might have happened?
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I reviewed the unlock files in the Cloud Backup for your account from 9/23.
There were several hundred files with the name "estore_NNN.ulk". I wondered if these corresponded to Wordsearch Online Store orders, so I compared their contents to the CROSS IDs associated with the Product Codes for each Line Item in each Order. They had identical contents, so this indicates to me that these are unlock files for individual orders in the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store.
What I didn't expect to find was that the Customer ID on those orders was not your Customer ID.
In fact, there are more than 50 different Customer IDs stamped on the Orders corresponding to the Unlock Files in your Wordsearch 12 backup. Is it possible you transferred orders from other WS users to yourself? (I don't think you've mentioned this as a potential source of licenses in previous posts. I'm not even sure if it was something the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store supported.)
Here are some customer names and order IDs (redacted for privacy) to jog your memory:
Da*** Pe***: ***948, ***722, ***172, ***455, ***387
He*** Pu***: ***110, ***511, ***901, ***096, ***344
Jo*** Me***: ***311, ***396, ***462, ***685, ***499
Da*** Tr***: ***992, ***509, ***153, ***906, ***920
Sa*** Tu***: ***802, ***683, ***342, ***564, ***076
I do not recognize the later stuff you talk about, but the earlier entries "estore_NNN.ulk" would have been for a lot of Bookstore entries back under the Bible Explorer 2 and Bible Explore 3. I suspect a lot of those are repeated entries, because back then when going to the books store it did not mark items you already had so those would be repurchases. If it did not use an account then their would be no way to know what I already purchased, else it would have showed what I already had and I would not have repeated bulk purchases not knowing what was new and what I already had. Most those should be for the free books that BE offered, even if repeated, several times to include any new additions that were not easy to identify. There were maybe 200 free books and some I did purchase, but the free books may not have had any user ID since they did no require any credit card and simply downloaded zipped books to the HD. I do not remember how many I may have purchased later, and those may have had a different User ID tied to my Debit Card. Other items would be acronyms for various CDs that were added over time. As I said before, I used to back up the file with my name in an external drive to a single folder and did as the post reporting the bug, used to use titles like List1, List 2, List 3, then later I started using the date I backed those up which made it easier to know when I backed that up. Think I stopped using that method with either WS11 or WS12 because assumed the back up bug had been fixed by then. I do not remember which version that bug and work around was reported, but never read when it was fixed.
Plus I do not think they used Customer IDs back then under the older WORDsearch versions like Bible Explorer which did not require a credit card for such purchase and not sure if they did under WS 5, WS6, WS7, WS8, WS9, and WS10. I believe it was WS 11 when we were required to sign in. But by then my books were ordered under the current email and those stopped creating files that started with "estore_NNN.ulk". Have not seen those type used for several years, and think they abandoned using those. Anything outside that naming map would have came from CDs, except for the one with my Name. I do not see any SP prefixes which would have been if I used my Mother's email, unless those are first and last names, which would be SD, but may have used my mothers email (Spencer1 around 2009-2010) with some earlier BE estore purchases, and some other earlier emails, but do not recognize any of those prefixes. Of course assuming those are names, my last name does start with DA, but nothing jogs my memory. So except for those older Bible Explorer estore entries which were not tied to an account and may have used new order ids for subsequent orders for the free books, and may have used a ID later when I had to purchase books from my debit card. But I do not think an account was required to get the free books, and several times not knowing if there were new books added to the free books and no easy way to tell what I already had, I believe several times I simply selected all the free books to catch what ever I missed. You need to contact the prior owners of WORDsearch back when they had Bible Explorer and confirm that an account was not required for free books, but might have been when you paid for books.
I do know before they reported that back up bug, I used backups to restore on later PCs, until I started backing up using the sequential backup names on an external drive in a single folder.
On the rebuild I started with a few CDs that were not lost in the fire like CBD.ulk which is the Christian Book Distributors Reference Library (that one your people did add to my bookstore after Getting that receipt) and ThompChainBibleLibrary.ulk is another CD I installed (and WORDsearch said they added that to the Store earlier) and QVBS.ulk is the Quick Verse Bible Suite that was released under the owner ship of WORDsearch (that is one your people refused to add to my account even after I provided the receipt for that). After installing those CDs I still had, I then installed WORDsearch 12 and signed in and that would have downloaded the file with my name from WORDsearch which was not there when I installed those CDs. Plus I had other CDs lost in that fire but found the receipts and those were not added either.
Right now I am seeing 3 estore entries with strange extensions, that were not there when I reinstalled, from CDs then final WS12. Don't know where they came from since I started on a fresh hard drive, but I do not know how all that works. But I do not thinks those are unlocks, or what they are because I do not recognize those extensions.
I have had several others use my PCs when visiting over the years, like my Son who died in a car accident and my brother who died last year of cancer and a lot of nieces and nephews who I know used the internet, and computer games, but doubt if they ever used any of my bible software, but they may have, but I do not believe that software allowed multiple sign-ins so there should not have been other users as you said. I really doubt they would have done anything they should not have on my PC, but was not monitoring every thing they did.
So from my stand point I should be the ONLY user tied to my account even if a lot of entries came before accounts were required. However, if there was, I can not absolutely say my family did not do something I was no aware of, but I really doubt that is the case. What I can say is I do NOT see books in my library I did not purchase or was provide free by BE and WORDsearch. Even you said there were some 7000 licenses, but I only had 4004 books, so if other stuff somehow, some way got there by others, it is NOT in my library now.
I just remember something, I had mailed my laptop to my daughter in Iowa to use for a while until she could afford to get her own, and I found out later she had pawned that Laptop, but I made her get it back to me. I do not believe a Pawn shop is allowed to use items that get redeemed, but again I am doubting anything happens with that. That laptop died about 6 months later and I got another laptop after mailing that to her, and upgraded the new one soon after that was returned to me.
But I repeat I should be the Only one that used that software unless without my knowledge.
Update:
My son was named Patrick David Daugherty, but grew up with his mother 40 years ago and used her married name, as David Johnson. The Da would not be part of David would it? Because that might be a clue.
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Hi Ricky,
There's something else in the Cloud Backups I hope you can help explain.
I inspected all license backups that had been made through Wordsearch 12. Three of them, including yours, contained an unlock file named "RickyDaugherty.ulk". So two other users also had this file, with all of your unlocks. Do you know how that might have happened?
How could they get my files? Above I mentioned my PC was hacked 3 time, but assumed they would be looking for identity stuff or account information to rob me, like the two ransomware tried to get me to pay them to unlock my PC. How would anyone know I had those files to take them? I would not believe a Christian would hack someone else's computer and steel Bible information. Whoever would have would not be real Christian. And I doubt my family would have taking those. I seriously doubt they would know what to look for or how to use that stuff. [redacted] My point is only a Christian would want those, unless a Non Christian was selling those to others. But then that questions any real Christian buying those if stole from others.
Could someone have hacked my Laptop when using WiFi at MacDonalds or the Public Library, because I went there frequently due to our very slow internet here?
But that raises other questions. If someone else had the unlocks with my name, does that not mean the only way the can use that was if they were signed in as me?
[redacted]
If they used my Laptop at the Pawn shop, and especially if they thought she did not have the money to get it back, they may have been using it and wonder if that is where other garbage got added before I copied that data to the new laptop when the hard drive started loosing sectors. That used to be my computer I used at Church as my Bible, and had a lot of different bible software packages as well as ebooks in ePub and mobi on it. While she had it I purchased another laptop and after I got that back I restored a lot of other stuff from that to the replacement before it died.
So I think the only way anyone could use my stuff was if they were logged in to my WS11 on that laptop as me. I think the CDs unlocks work on all computers but the one with my name should only work for me under my WS11 or WS12 sign-in. So what good would that do for anyone else to have that?
[redacted]
So sounds like someone messed up my account, but how is speculation with only best guesses above, and did I not only loose both my kids, I have many other woes to deal with. Like I said way at the top of this thread, I feel cursed, and feel like the devil is out to get me. Can not walk on my left knee and insurance will not pay to get it fixed, I have 4 blocked arteries with my heart functioning at only 30%, which the surgeon refuses to do my triple bypass, simply because I can not afford to go into a nursing home for recovery and he refused to release me to my home because I have too many pets and know have to deal with this mess that is not my fault. I know we are in the last days and many are suffering out there at this time, but Like Elijah I feel like I am alone even though I know I am not.
PS
If that laptop in the pawnshop was how they accessed my accounts, that may be how they was able to hack my PC more recently, because with my email and password saved in my browsers, and using my sign-in to my Microsoft account, they could have use a Microsoft back door to access my PC more recently. I had assumed I went to a bad website my AVG Free did not catch, but if they had Microsoft access, maybe that is how they froze my PC locking me out with Microsoft remote access and bypass AVG catching that. Still guessing the Ransom ware was a bad website, but taking control of my PC had to be something more complicated like remote access with my password to get permission.
Obviously it could be a coincidence others could have purchased the same CDs as those you noticed, but someone would have had to have access to mine, with the same name as mine and with the same unlocks as mine. At first when you said the same name, other could have the same name as me as happened recently with my credit report that had another guys bad credit listed in my report, who had the same name as me, but with a birth date 5 years before I was born. But to have the same unlocks, means they would have a copy from at least one of my PCs and that is not a coincidence and is something to be concerned about.
Is there anyway to check and see if any of my Logos account may have been copied also. But it would have had an older Logos version on that Laptop, because it was still Windows XP. If some one else had access to that Laptop, I have to wonder how much other stuff was stole from my Laptop. I have read about some steal credit card numbers and selling them, but never considered stuff like this being sold or that there might be a market for such.
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Ricky Daugherty said:
QVBS.ulk is the Quick Verse Bible Suite that was released under the owner ship of WORDsearch (that is one your people refused to add to my account even after I provided the receipt for that).
We've never done unlocks for individual QV/WS CDs through the Logos licensing system before, which I think is why the CS team had trouble granting this unlock and referred you to Wordsearch for it.
However, I think I've unlocked it for you. It had 141 licenses on it. (Those may not all be new licenses, there might be some overlap with books you acquired through other purchases.) Please let me know if this unlock worked for you.
Ricky Daugherty said:Obviously it could be a coincidence others could have purchased the same CDs as those you noticed, but someone would have had to have access to mine, with the same name as mine and with the same unlocks as mine. ... But that raises other questions. If someone else had the unlocks with my name, does that not mean the only way the can use that was if they were signed in as me?
They weren't signed in as you, as it was backed up under another account. But I may have jumped to conclusions earlier. While the file names were the same, the files weren't totally identical. Perhaps it was another customer who just shares your name.
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We've never done unlocks for individual QV/WS CDs through the Logos licensing system before, which I think is why the CS team had trouble granting this unlock and referred you to Wordsearch for it.
However, I think I've unlocked it for you. It had 141 licenses on it. (Those may not all be new licenses, there might be some overlap with books you acquired through other purchases.) Please let me know if this unlock worked for you.
They weren't signed in as you, as it was backed up under another account. But I may have jumped to conclusions earlier. While the file names were the same, the files weren't totally identical. Perhaps it was another customer who just shares your name.
If as you said that was in someone else's account and they were not logged in as me, then it would be like those about 7000 items you said you saw which is far more than your Migration Status even recognized, so unless they could sign in as me, I am guessing those were harmless and would never show up unless they could log in as me. Any chance whoever had my Laptop may have cloned the hard drive, then installed the clone in another laptop and sold that, and someone else installed their own legal copy and restored their unlocks thereby merging those with mine, even though mine would not show up as they logged in? Both would have been stored in the same folder, and the backup would have simply copied the entire folder to the backup location. For them to use both, the would have had to have my WS11 which had my password log-in, and installed WS12 which requires a separate log-in. I guess in such case they could log in to WS11 as me, and log into WS12 as them. But the back up would have grabbed both in a single backup. The earlier WS 11 would install on Windows XP but the later updates and WS12 would no install on XP. My laptop had WS11 on Windows XP.
My concern was about my Logos account, if someone was using that Laptop, or even cloned my drive, they may be logging in as me. I keep reading AVG notices that my IP is showing to try to get me to upgrade, and I have seen other websites that access our IP, was just wondering if Logos could check IPs logging is me with Logos software and maker sure it is not coming from another location. If it was, then we can find the source of who may have accessed my Hard Drive without my consent.
On another note: When I got that Laptop back (which was Windows XP) I had bought a Used Windows 7 laptop from ebay and did not have all my old stuff on the newer Windows 7 LP, so when I got that back I had used Windows Easy Transfer to copy all the data from that Windows XP to my newer Windows 7 Laptop which restored all data from that to the new one, but not the software. I then had to install many other programs to use the data that was restored. That Windows 7 Laptop with the restored data is what I used to do that first Cloud backup you mentioned. Because of Logos 9 I was forced to buy another cheap (use) Desktop on eBay. Because Windows Easy Transfer no longer works on Windows 10, I did not do the same kind of transfer with my Windows 10 that I have Logos 9 on. That Windows 10 with a clean install of everything is where the second Cloud Backup came from, while the first had restored data from the one my daughter reclaimed from that Pawn Shop in Iowa.
And why would I install CDs I still had first before WS12 on the Windows 10 Desktop? As said above, I have a very slow internet, so getting those books from the CDs was faster than allowing them to download from the website as I had to do with the rest which took about a week to download. If I had a faster internet, I would have then simply installed WS12 and let them download everything fresh, but from the CDs it took a bit off the download time, but not much.
The reason I used Easy Transfer on the Windows XP to Windows 7 laptops, is I could not remember some passwords for some websites and that restored my browsing history with all my websites passwords intact. I never imagined it could have been corrupted and I added stuff I was not aware of. [redacted]
[redacted]
But after what you reported to me, I have to agree my stuff had been hacked, but not at the website, but most likely on that laptop, and now I understand how my stuff could have gotten corrupted. I just never considered the Pawn Shop would have messed with that, even though out of her control I was very worried if they sold it someone else may steal my information or go to my email or log in to my other accounts. Most people that would do such have no interest in the Bible because the do not have the Holy Spirit to give them a conscience. Nor do I know what other surprises I can expect down the road if they had access to so much of my information and all my accounts.
But if someone that would merge their stuff with mind as though they were planning on keeping that Laptop, that makes me wonder did they steal my BibleWorks 9, or my Quick Verse Platinum or Illumina Gold Premium or any of my Hebrew and Greek Software. What else could they have stole without me knowing about it? I had AutoCad 2000 from when I was in Mechinical Engineering, and other expensive software installed, which I expected to get back as soon as she got her own laptop. That was only a loaner laptop for her eyes only. In fact the text I left on the desktop clearly said that no one else could use that but her.
But after all you shared, I am not going to give Logos a hard time as I believe your concerns are fully justified, and I am in full agreement with your concerns. I only had the information I could see from my end and did not believe there was anything wrong, and thought I was being unjustly treated. From what I could see, I had what I should have, and could not see the stuff you have revealed so far. I still question if any of those extra stuff made any difference (which you claimed was over 7000 items, much less than I see in my WS12) since I only see what I should have in my library and you had unknown stuff for much that was not showing up in my PC wordsearch or the www.MyWSB.com web app. That is why unless others signed in as me, I doubt they could use my file if they had it. But whoever had custody of my Laptop could use that until my daughter redeemed it and returned it to me.
With that said, I owe Logos and apology, as I said I would do above. I said if you could prove me wrong, I would retract my claims of a hidden motive. While I now believe I am being victimized multiple times over several things I was not aware of, I am convinced it is not Logos fault. So I retract my claims above, at least about this issue, but not on those inflated Cyber Monday and Christmas Base Package Discounts I already brought to Bob's attention and he said he would fix those even thought the inflated Christmas Discounts were still there several weeks later.
Even so I am still out all those CDs and other software that was lost in that 2014 fire. I had stopped looking for receipts when you people stopped adding them to my account after only 2 of them. If I can get the strength after it gets warmer, I will return to the attic and finish unpacking those boxes to see if any more receipts survived.
On Friday 11/27/2020 I send Logos Customer Service the following email with an attachment:
[quote]
That receipt was sent to both Logos and WORDsearch at Logos request. The guy at WORDsearch failed to understand what was going on and acted like all those receipts were being requested for addition after the accusition, and failed to understand those are already in my library and Logos was requesting I get them in the bookstore history. He said he advises folks to register them when they get them, but that is exactly what WORDsearch 8 did when I first installed that, it registered those with their account. Both WORDsearch and Logos never replied after that. I had submitted proof for other CDs, but in hindsight those may have already been added to the Bookstore when converting from STEP to Wordsearch format. It is just that after those CDs were lost in the fire, I do not know the contents to know what was added and what may not have been, but only the titles. But WORDsearch chose to ignore those receipts. Some went back to Nav Press (Navigators) that was later WORDsearch. And several produced for ICR (Institute for Creation Research), but those STEP books may be in my library, but with out the listing to see what was included I do not know what may be missing or not.
I contacted you over a month ago and provided you my Purchase Receipt for The Pentecostal Library CD-Rom (WORDsearch 8 Version) Compiled by Stanley M. Horton, Published by Gospel Publishing House (2009).
PRODUCT DETAIL
Catalogue Code 293889
Product Code 9780882434803
ISBN 0882434802
EAN 9780882434803
Pages 1
Department Academic
Category Software
Sub-Category General
Publisher Gospel Publishing House
Publication Date Oct 2009
Dimensions 190 x 140 x 15mm
Weight 0.085kg
This item is the same as your Logos title "Stanley M. Horton Theology and Biblical Studies Collection (5 vols.)Stanley M. Horton Theology and Biblical Studies Collection (5 vols.)"
My logos account for that product listing previously said "You own this product." but now it says I have to purchase this. The following is what your listing details previously said before you removed it:
Acts: A Logion Press Commentary By Stanley M. Horton Owned
Bible Doctrines: A Pentecostal Perspective By William W. Menzies, Stanley M. Horton Owned
I & II Corinthians: A Logion Press Commentary By Stanley M. Horton Owned
Systematic Theology: Revised Edition By Stanley M. Horton Owned
What the Bible Says about the Holy Spirit By Stanley M. Horton Owned
Total value if sold separately: $128.87
You have never explained to me why you removed this from my account. It is still in my WORDsearch library, and even though you told me I had to provide proof of purchase to get it back, which I did email you a copy of that receipt, you still have not restored that to my account. All you said was you were researching it, and when I contacted WORDsearch support about that same receipt, all they said was it was too late to be adding this to my WORDsearch account, and failed to understand it was already in my WORDsearch account and it was Logos that removed it from migration. WORDsearch said that is why they advise folks to Register those CD purchases, but he failed to recognize that CD was already registered with my WORDsearch account and why those are still there now, but not in Logos like it was earlier.
That receipt was from Christian Book Distributors (ChristianBook.com) dated 12/5/2009 and was listed on that receipt as Catalog Code 293889 as "WORDSEARCH 8 PENTICOSTAL LIB CDR". Obviously that receipt did not allow for the full title of "The Pentecostal Library CD-Rom (WORDsearch 8 Version)" so they abbreviated that title and did include the Catalog Code, but not the ISBN number which was more digits than the field on that receipt. Actually, that may not have been the receipt but a Packing Invoice which was just as good. I was working remotely and buying from one location and having them sent to my mother's house next door to mine, for when I got home. So I would have received the receipt with the price, and the duplicate packing invoice was with the shipment, which is what I sent you in that earlier email. But this invoice did say I paid by Check and had the Customer Number and the Invoice Number.
It was not my fault the receipt did not have room for the full title, but it did have the Catalog Number, so I do not know why you failed to restore that to my account.
I later emailed WORDsearch support about this and provided the Product Details at the top of this email to help them identify the product since the title was abbreviated, but never received a reply after that.
You said if I provided that receipt, you would restore that to my library, but here it is a couple months later, and you had proof, yet that resources your removed from my library is still missing.
To me it sounds like you failed to honor your word to restore that once I provided the Receipt, which I should not have had to do, since that license is in my WORDsearch Account, even though it came from a CD license that was added to my WORDsearch account.
So are you going to honor your word, or are you violating that license by removing it without cause and after receiving proof of purchase?
Since that "The Pentecostal Library CD-Rom (WORDsearch 8 Version)" was lost in that fire, I did not install that on the Windows 10 like I did the other CDs before installing WS12 and logging in to get the rest. But Logos never got that added even with proof of purchase from Christian Book Distributes where I got most my CDs that was removed by Logos.
Too much said already. You can probably sense that I am a hermit who has lived alone for the past 30 years with only an occasional visit by family, so I talk too much whenever I do, because no one else to talk to the rest of the time. With the Virus not being able to go to Church and now it is open again, by bum left knee prevents me getting out, so a lot is bottled up inside and no one to share it with. And I am dealing with far too many problems like the above and unresolved health issues alone with very little money left to help.
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I don't have access to the CS email system, so I can't see any of these receipts you've sent in. I won't be able to follow up on that until Monday at the earliest.
BTW, one of the things that makes this difficult is that we don't have full records (from BE/QV/WS/LW, and especially from third-parties who produced compatible CDs) of what the contents of all the CDs actually were. This makes it difficult for us to know exactly what needs to be unlocked to transfer a purchase into our system. (This doesn't apply to purchases through wordsearchbible.lifeway.com, only through earlier systems, or offline on CD.) And of course sometimes CDs got reissued with slightly different contents but not all producers were meticulous about labelling their CDs "version 1", "version 2", etc. Then of course we have to map those onto our resources, which might be slightly different.
Anyway, my point is just that this can sometimes be a time-consuming process to get right.
However, I think I've unlocked it for you. It had 141 licenses on it. (Those may not all be new licenses, there might be some overlap with books you acquired through other purchases.) Please let me know if this unlock worked for you.
Are you able to check that the 141 unlocks (again, they may not be 141 completely new, distinct books) in QuickVerse Bible Suite came through? Like I said, we've never done unlocks in this exact way before, so it's important for us to know that this unlock mechanism is working before working on more CDs.
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I don't have access to the CS email system, so I can't see any of these receipts you've sent in. I won't be able to follow up on that until Monday at the earliest.
BTW, one of the things that makes this difficult is that we don't have full records (from BE/QV/WS/LW, and especially from third-parties who produced compatible CDs) of what the contents of all the CDs actually were. This makes it difficult for us to know exactly what needs to be unlocked to transfer a purchase into our system. (This doesn't apply to purchases through wordsearchbible.lifeway.com, only through earlier systems, or offline on CD.) And of course sometimes CDs got reissued with slightly different contents but not all producers were meticulous about labelling their CDs "version 1", "version 2", etc. Then of course we have to map those onto our resources, which might be slightly different.
Anyway, my point is just that this can sometimes be a time-consuming process to get right.
Are you able to check that the 141 unlocks (again, they may not be 141 completely new, distinct books) in QuickVerse Bible Suite came through? Like I said, we've never done unlocks in this exact way before, so it's important for us to know that this unlock mechanism is working before working on more CDs.
Again all I can say is thank you for your patience and for helping to sort out this mess.
I agree many Quick Verse Bible Suit books may be overlaps. Many times I tried to figure out what I had and what was missing from my QVBS, however, your Migration Status seems to omit useful information which would have helped. Several times I attempted to reconcile what titles were in your list matched some of my CDs and I had a problem with missing Authors in your list, with a repeated title but I had the same titles in my stuff with different authors, so I would not know which one was the ones from older CDs or which were from later stuff. Since I do not have book IDs like you have all I could go by were titles, which sometimes were abbreviated or cryptic and many times duplicate titles for different authors. I did the same with several of my STEP book CDs and found too many duplicate titles from different authors, but could not tell which were which from the limited date in your Migration Status Page. It would have helped to have more information there. From your point of view that was adequate with book numbers you recognized, but from our point of view book ids would not be as helpful as Authors to go with your book ids.
But I agree there may have been a lot of overlap, but I assumed there had to be some not overlapped in that collection. The same was true with my CBD reference Library. The first thing that flagged my attention was that my "Vines" was removed from that Migration Status which I knew was in the CBD collection, however, later I saw I already had the Vines in my Logos Library, but did not want to go book by book again to see what else was missing that was in that CD that may not have already been in my Logos account.
Anyway, many thanks again. Logos ought to be proud to have you helping them as you do. If just hurts that CS stopped communication with me. But that is not the first time they did that. Some years back they stopped replying to my emails. The silence only adds to suspensions and speculation about Logos. A professional attitude would be to answer even if you do not agree, which surely what you have done here, plus you had the patience to explain which helps when the other side does not understand what is going on.
...And of course sometimes CDs got reissued with slightly different contents...
I ran into that. I have a WS5 Thompson Chain Reference library I was trying to get added just in case the contents were different than the WS7 I purchased later in WORDsearch format. In that case I believe there were things added n the WS7 that I did not have in the WS5 which had a slightly different title, like I believe included the phrase Preaching Library to that WS5 Thompson title. I was afraid some Preaching Library items may have been omitted, however, I see I purchased that Preaching Library in the Book Store separately, so can only assume those items are in my later purchase that you do have in active migration to Logos.
I also had a WS9 Preaching Gold CD that was lost in that fire, and not found the receipt for that, and a WS9 Complete Biblical Library Old and New Testaments that was also lost in the fire and can not find the receipts for those. I found a text file I had with those mentioned, but can not find them. But I wondered if those were produced by one of those third party vendors for WS like my WS9 Joice Meyer CD I also had but lost in that fire may have been produced by a third party. I had several WS CDs I had purchased from various ministries over they years that are gone as well, and they may have been produced by others to work with WORDsearch.
I know that is the case with a lot of E4 CDs that I still have which had books made by others, but included in STEP format to work with a distributional copy of QuickVerse. When WS scanned those STEP books after WS purchases QV, none of those titles were recognized in their store suggesting they were all third party productions.
Even my Quick Verse 2009-2010 Platinum only mostly matched WS books in the WS store, because we (Wordsearch CS and myself) spent about a month of communicating about missing items and them replacing some with similar ones to replace the missing items. Plus WS added those to my store purchases, even though I believe the missing items were those which WS was unable to acquire the licensed to on their WS platform.
Just saying I understand what you are saying.
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We discovered evidence over the weekend that (in conjunction with analysis of the Wordsearch source code) leads us to believe that you have been using other customers' unlock files and backing them up to your account.
This is a violation of our Acceptable Use Policy, and grounds for termination of your account.
We have not terminated your account, but have left it intact with your existing logos.com purchases and licenses imported from the Wordsearch Sales database. However, we will not be unlocking any Wordsearch, QuickVerse, or any other CDs on your account.
Please do not continue to use our forums to post false claims about your account and licenses. Further intentional violations of our terms of service may lead to your account being cancelled at our sole discretion.
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We discovered evidence over the weekend that (in conjunction with analysis of the Wordsearch source code) leads us to believe that you have been using other customers' unlock files and backing them up to your account.
This is a violation of our Acceptable Use Policy, and grounds for termination of your account.
We have not terminated your account, but have left it intact with your existing logos.com purchases and licenses imported from the Wordsearch Sales database. However, we will not be unlocking any Wordsearch, QuickVerse, or any other CDs on your account.
Please do not continue to use our forums to post false claims about your account and licenses. Further intentional violations of our terms of service may lead to your account being cancelled at our sole discretion.
I agree with what you are saying must have happend, but disagree I was aware of what happened until you shared what you did. It is not fair to assume I knew about it. I do thank you for all you did to figure out what happened.
I will respect your request to abstain from any more posts here regardless of my feelings or objections. I know if I was you I most likely would have thought the same.
Thanks for all your help and decisions.
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It is unfair!!! I have purchased resources from word search for the past 20 plus years most of which I downloaded from word search directly now I do not have access to them since Logos took over. This is very disheartening. I spent over $8,000 over the years purchasing books.
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I am not going to respond to anyone directly about the Wordsearch/Faithlife agreements. I am just going to post about my experiences as a Christian who has lost EVERYTHING several times.
God's agendas often do not include us getting to keep our stuff. Sometimes keeping our stuff is in direct opposition of his agendas for us.
Sometimes the people that directly control the access to our stuff are not the ones in charge of a bigger agenda that is bigger than them. Sometimes the bigger power is God and sometimes the bigger power is a government or some other authority.
Rich people pay to go on retreats where they get to not have stuff. Students pay schools to provide them opportunities to visit poverty. I look at my times of the most extreme poverty as retreats and schooling. I get to do this for free! And I get to do this for REAL instead of a simulation! Aren't I lucky!? LOL.
I have a lot of books and software AGAIN. I have lost it all before, and I bet I lose it all again. This fall, I came very close to having to do another major start-over, and at one point I just cried to God, "I cannot do this again, not this soon. I just got a little comfortable again. I just got a little bit 'back on track'". And then I realized, that getting "back on track" was just back on a hamster wheel.
Sometimes, I am to run on that wheel, and sometimes I am not. God replaces or gives me what I need to complete my missions. If I don't have the stuff, then I don't need to worry about the mission. Maybe I was being a little too flippant, but recently I just said to God at one point, "If I am supposed to do that, I don't have the stuff to do it. Your bad. Your problem. If you want that done, supply the tools." Then I climbed in my bed (nothing but a blow up mattress) and watched Chinese Soap Operas on Youtube while eating microwave popcorn.
I guess God wants me back on the hamster wheel. Stuff started being delivered. LOL. I got out of bed and got busy.
Logos is a tool. If we have it, maybe we are to use it for His glory. Or maybe not. Maybe we just have it. But if we don't have it, then ... we do something else for His glory with the tools that are provided.
It is all in His hands. Our siblings, Christian and not-Christian, are just our siblings. Our siblings, no matter how big and how powerful, are not our Father and are not the FINAL authority. It is all in His hands.
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Donald Smith said:
now I do not have access to them since Logos took over.
Don't you still have access to them through WordSearch? WordSearch should continue to run for some time.
Donald Smith said:It is unfair!!!
Life is unfair; some Bible software companies have gone under and provided no path forward for any of their resources. Yes, it is annoying to lose access to a favorite resource but ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Donald Smith said:
It is unfair!!! I have purchased resources from word search for the past 20 plus years most of which I downloaded from word search directly now I do not have access to them since Logos took over. This is very disheartening. I spent over $8,000 over the years purchasing books.
This seems very strange - have you spoken to Faithlife's Customer Service team?
The received wisdom is that phoning is far more timely than emailing.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Donald Smith said:
most of which I downloaded from word search directly now I do not have access to them since Logos took over. ... I spent over $8,000
This seems like a pretty suspect claim. I'd suggest you make sure your email address on your Logos account matches the email address you had on your Wordsearch account - that's how they are mapped.
There's only a very small number of incompatible books that have not been migrated from Wordsearch to some Logos format. They are virtually all available in Logos (at no cost) for those who bought Wordsearch licenses to use them in Wordsearch. I know in my case I had almost 1200 new books added to my Logos library from old Wordsearch licenses I hadn't already duplicated in Logos.
There's a couple KJV-based resources I'm aware of that I think were significantly better implemented in their Wordsearch editions, but for the most part this transition has been a free upgrade in book quality, application quality, and application functionality. We Wordsearch users are blessed to have had things turn out this way.
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I can only speak of my sojourn from WordSearch to Logos....
I was a happy WordSearch customer... I used it to study and had my ways of using the WS program.
I gotta say, because it is truth, that for me, Logos has been very kind, very understanding and very helpful through all this. I felt they "cheated me" in one thing... I got with them and made my case, and they fixed it. In other words.... I tried to be understanding of them... and then showed where I thought they missed something... and they fixed it.
I have no reason to think ... that they treated any other WordSearch person differently.
I did check sometime back... and I think there were some books that I lost in the process (they are still in my WordSearch) but it was due to license issues. I understand that.
But overall.... Logos has been super to work with... super to be attentive to issues and problems and super to be of help to me.
As I read this thread from the begining... I am thinking that some people... who feel cheated somehow... just want to rant and rave about being cheated and think they don't have to actually work to solve the problem.
To that I would say... It takes one to be a problem.... it takes two to solve it.
I pray it all will be worked out!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Hi Bradley, I have a Quickverse Deluxe library registered under my old email which I no longer have access to. I purchased it from a Quickverse retailer. I contacted Logos customer service, they found my old email registered under Wordsearch in Logos system but the account contains no books. They explained that my books might not have been fully migrated to Wordsearch.
How do I migrate my Quickverse books to Logos? I could provide the original invoice as proof of purchase if you could provide the email to send it to.
The reason I am not aware of Wordsearch license migration until now is because I do not have access to my old email registered under Quickverse and Wordsearch. It only came to my attention when I read about it in this forum. Would appreciate your help in this matter. Thank you.
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Greeting BL
You may be fortunate to get a reply from Bradley but I notice the last post from a staff member was back in 2021.
This is, currently a very low volume forum, most posts being from folk are only just realising that the Wordsearch is no more or have come across the problem of needing to upgrade obsolete equipment.
Your past conversation with customer services does not seem to have been very satisfactory however a phone call will be more likely to solve your problem than a post here.
Although the books were not linked to your Wordsearch Account presumably you have the files nestling somewhere on your hard-drive. That and the receipt may be enough to persuade Logos to license the resources to you.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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