Commentaries - Denomination
Ok, so I was wondering why do my reformed authors not show up in reformed, like calvin, or macarthur? Instead they go under this unnamed section. and I mean like 75% of my commentaries are in here, but I own L8 Reformed Silver - L8 Baptist bronze and L8 Standard Silver
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Factbook is a perpetual work in progress. They are rolling out an update to the data factbook exposes every couple weeks.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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why do my reformed authors not show up in reformed
You illustrate well the challenges with assigning denominational tags.
How do "non-denominational" authors [your first 2 resources are from Dallas Theological Seminary - a "non-denominational" school; and John MacArthur who pastors a "non-denominational" church] fit into a denominational taxonomy?
What definition of "Reformed" is being used? Personally, I fall into the category of "Reformed" if one uses "ascribes to the 5 Solas of the Reformation" but would not align with the CRC - Christian Reformed Church; RCA - Reformed Church in America, the PRCA - Protestant Reformed Church in America, or RPC - Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America. I have much in common with these 4 denominations, but none of them accurately reflect my belief system.
This will get even trickier when many of the recently purchased commentaries from Broadman Holman get tagged because some in the Southern Baptist Convention strongly disagree with being placed in the stream flowing from the Protestant Reformation, while others proudly claim the label Reformed.
In your screencapture - Does Warren Wiersbe truly belong in the "Baptist" category? His seminary and early ministry years were in Baptist schools and churches, but from 1971 until his death in 2019 he was much more closely aligned with non-denominational churches and seminaries.
I don't criticize the groupings or the desire for more tagging. I just believe there is a HUGE opportunity for misunderstanding if a user doesn't realize the fluidity of these categories.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = Logos10 on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet) & FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.
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What definition of "Reformed" is being used?
A denominational one, not a theological one.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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How do "non-denominational" authors [your first 2 resources are from Dallas Theological Seminary - a "non-denominational" school; and John MacArthur who pastors a "non-denominational" church] fit into a denominational taxonomy?
Very seriously, I treat "non-denominational" to be a school within the denomination "American Evangelical/Fundamentalist". I consider it no different than assigning "denomination" to the major churches that have no theological grounding for the concept "denomination". As long as I understand that I have imposed a classification that is not used internally, it works just find. It is only when one tries to treat it as if it meant more that an externally imposed classification system that one gets into trouble.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Very seriously, I treat "non-denominational" to be a school within the denomination "American Evangelical/Fundamentalist".
I suppose if you define American Evangelical widely, yes. But if you start equating American Evangelical with Fundamentalist, no. In many ways Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism are distinct movements that do admittedly overlap enough that is confusing to us outsiders.
Edit: To give an example, I think that Rob Bell would describe his work as being Non-Denominational. But it is in no way Fundamentalist.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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I suppose if you define American Evangelical widely, yes. But if you start equating American Evangelical with Fundamentalist,
As I lived through the decline of Fundamentalism (to which Dad as a Stone-Campbellite semi-adhered) and the rise of Evangelicalism I would not equate them except in the sense of place in American religious sociology. In my use, the emphasis is "American" rather than "Fundamentalist" or "Evangelical" ... think diverse culture, vast spaces, traveling preachers, camp meetings . . . My point in giving how I handle it was to emphasize that it is only a classification system and if we know how Faithlife handled it, it doesn't matter if it is how the group or I would handle it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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the emphasis is "American" rather than "Fundamentalist" or "Evangelical"
That makes more sense. But of course, we have exported that to the rest of the world.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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What definition of "Reformed" is being used?
Most concretely, the "Reformed" label here means the author is (in our data) associated with one of the denominations that we've clustered into this denominational group.
(I'll need to check on the association here with "Radical Orthodoxy": that looks suspect to me).
Also note that we're currently focused on denominations as formal organizations (and groups), not belief systems or theological positions. That's another useful categorization, but one that's harder to objectively assess at scale (we have more than 100k authors in our database).
As others have noted, this is both a tricky and imperfect categorization, as well as a work in progress. But we hope it will be broadly useful, and welcome your suggestions for improving it.
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What definition of "Reformed" is being used?
A denominational one, not a theological one.
But the original post asked why authors (e.g. MacArthur) are not included in the taxonomy. This exposes the challenge when Logos tags by denomination but users read it as theological.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = Logos10 on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet) & FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.
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This exposes the challenge when Logos tags by denomination but users read it as theological.
I would rather see a theological break out. That would be more useful to the way I study.
Somewhere I saw that there were 40,000 denominations. Question: how many theological groups do they fall into?
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Somewhere I saw that there were 40,000 denominations. Question: how many theological groups do they fall into?
Just a guess but I would guess around 2 billion ...[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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(I'll need to check on the association here with "Radical Orthodoxy": that looks suspect to me).
It's plain flat wrong. The principal Radical Orthodox scholars are Anglicans (John Milbank and associates), and Radical Orthodoxy isn't actually a denomination at all, any more than "Thomism" is.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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When the denomination packages were first introduced I must say I stopped using Logos as often as I felt the 'labels' did not seem accurate or fair. Your comment only highlights the inconsistencies. I began using WordSearch more but now I am going to live within these 'labels'.
Is there someway they can be turned off?
Colin
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Is there someway they can be turned off?
They can't be turned off but you can choose to ignore them as far as I can see.
Am I missing something?
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I don't criticize the groupings or the desire for more tagging. I just believe there is a HUGE opportunity for misunderstanding if a user doesn't realize the fluidity of these categories.
Same; I'm having difficulty seeing the value of the effort of an exercise like this for commentaries, where approach and methodology (e.g., critical or pre-critical) are far more determinative than the author's denominational affiliation.
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where approach and methodology (e.g., critical or pre-critical) are far more determinative than the author's denominational affiliation.
I agree but hit a brick wall on methodology/type of criticism .... the type attribute being further refined is our best chance for some kind of implementation in the near future.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks for that Graham. I have now seen the Morris Proctor Webinar which explained how the options work. The option to filter by other means is helpful.
Colin
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Thanks for that Graham.
I have now seen the Morris Proctor Webinar which explains in detail. The option to filter by other means is helpful.
Colin
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I'm having difficulty seeing the value of the effort of an exercise like this for commentaries, where approach and methodology (e.g., critical or pre-critical) are far more determinative than the author's denominational affiliation.
Authors from Group A usually don't say fantastically stupid things about Group A and its history, theology, approach to a particular passage, etc., but they may do such things with regard to Group B. They also come from different cultural backgrounds and intellectual traditions, which are meaningfully delimited by accurate denominational assignments. Those backgrounds come into play in their Scripture commentaries not only in their selection of approaches and methodologies, but in their execution thereof.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Does anybody (please..? [:P]) agree with me that Arland J. Hultgren should be moved from the miscellaneous group to the Lutheran grouping of the new Logos 9 Passage Guide (by denomination)? (I don't want to start a fight [;)] ) See below:
Check out my channel with Christian music in Youtube: @olli-pekka-pappi. Newest song (Oct 23rd 2024), The Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi,
https://youtu.be/sRkAJvrmnBY0 -
Does anybody (please..?
) agree with me that Arland J. Hultgren should be moved Of course he should be in the Lutheran category, as should the Concordia Self-Study Commentary.
And the Baker New Testament Commentary series should be Reformed.
The whole feature is in process. It may never be finished since of the writing of books there is no end, but there are obvious improvements that Faithlife has been making even since Monday.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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there are obvious improvements that Faithlife has been making even since Monday.
[Y]
Check out my channel with Christian music in Youtube: @olli-pekka-pappi. Newest song (Oct 23rd 2024), The Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi,
https://youtu.be/sRkAJvrmnBY0 -
Sean et al,
I think this feature is well-intentioned and useful to some. But the label "Denomination" might just be too contentious. (As someone pointed out in another post, should "Jewish/Judaism" be included?)
Would "Tradition" be a better label, and being more consistent with how the Base Packages are labeled?
Peter
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This exposes the challenge when Logos tags by denomination but users read it as theological.
I would rather see a theological break out. That would be more useful to the way I study.
Somewhere I saw that there were 40,000 denominations. Question: how many theological groups do they fall into?
I don't know where this figure of 40k comes from. We haven't attempted to cover all denominations in the US, much less the entire world (i'm not even sure how we could): Factbook currently includes a little less than 200. These are organized into about 35 denominational groups, 25 of which are labeled in the Passage Guide Commentaries section under "Denomination".
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I don't know where this figure of 40k comes from.
Factbook currently includes a little less than 200. These are organized into about 35 denominational groups, 25 of which are labeled in the Passage Guide Commentaries section under "Denomination".
Faith Life Forum "groups"
- Anglican Products
- Baptist Products
- Catholic Products
- Jewish Products
- Lutheran Products
- Messianic Jewish Products
- Methodist & Wesleyan Products
- Orthodox Products
- Pentecostal & Charismatic Products
- Reformed Products
- Seventh-day Adventist Products
Currently you have 11 “denominational” Forum “groups” [Yes, I know that the word “denominational’ does not fit all of them but I am lacking a better word while considering tagging resources as to who would want to use that resource] If I was doing this [and I am glad that I am not] I would start by grouping them into the Forum “groups”. As which Forum group members would be most likely to purchase and use these. Then split them finer if need be. [[of course there are some of us that buy from more than one "group" but a tool that told us what group a resource fits when found in a search will be useful]]
Also: Did a 'google' on "count of denominations": estimates range from 30 to 45 thousand. We have come a long way since we were just People of THE Way. [Stress on the word “THE” as in the one and only way.]
Good luck! Will review which "Groups" that I find useful after we can use your tool to see which is in what.
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Please keep in mind that the groupings of the commentaries in the various sections, whether it be by denomination, era, or any other section, is a work in progress. FL is doing a good job with this, but it is going to take time.
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o: Did a 'google' on "count of denominations": estimates range from 30 to 45 thousand
Most estimates in that range consider a denomination to be unique to a country ... a concept I understand but am amused by
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Why can't you use the term "Traditions" (as in the Base Package labelings) instead of "Denominations"?
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Why can't you use the term "Traditions" (as in the Base Package labelings) instead of "Denominations"?
[Y]
But then we will need to define each "tradition"
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OP here, wow, seems like I haven't seen any of these comments, and I'm at the end of 2023. Has there been any progress since I originally posted?
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