I was only fair in English Grammar in school

and never heard of some of the terms that I have heard and seen in these videos and the Forum (verbs stems, deponent, middle voice, construct nouns and etc.) Is it going to be the next thing to impossible for me to learn all this not having dealt with it in over 30 years? If not where do I start? Is there books, videos, correspondent courses? Please help me before I give up.

Thanks again for your good help

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Friedrich

Sam,

I had Greek and Hebrew, and I forget. Logos has many good resources. Here are some options:

1. The Pocket Dictionary for the Study of New Testament Greek. In the IVP reference collection:http://www.logos.com/products/details/1516 I use it all the time.

2. http://www.logos.com/products/details/2201 This beginning grammar even reviews English Grammar.

3. http://www.logos.com/products/details/5876 this excellent video set that shows how to use Greek and Hebrew tools in Logos without ever having a class.

Plus, check out the comparison chart http://www.logos.com/comparison to see what Greek grammars, etc, you already may have in your base package, if you have one.

Hope this gets you started in the right direction (also look at resources by William Mounce. Some of his are in Logos. He is well recommended.

Jerry M

If you have the Pocket Dictionary for the Study of the New Testament Greek, that may help some.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148791#Comment_148791

Dan, great minds think alike! You beat me to the post and did a better job.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148796#Comment_148796

Dan, great minds think alike!

That is a handy little tool, isn't it? As are the other Pocket Dictionaries. Too bad they can't be sold separately.

Sam West

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148800#Comment_148800

Guys i Have the pocket dictionary. You suggested that the other day and I have the videos by dr Heiser and Johnny. But you don't understand. I need to start at the very bottom and I do not know where that is. I can find verbs and that about the extent of my knowledge. I need something very elementary to start with. Both of you think elementary and If you have any suggestions then let me know.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148870#Comment_148870

Guys i Have the pocket dictionary. You suggested that the other day and I have the videos by dr Heiser and Johnny. But you don't understand. I need to start at the very bottom and I do not know where that is. I can find verbs and that about the extent of my knowledge. I need something very elementary to start with. Both of you think elementary and If you have any suggestions then let me know.

look at #2 of my longer post above. that might help you. And (not kidding) maybe enroll in an online grammar course or through a local community college. That could prove very methodical, elementary, and helpful to you.

[:)]

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148872#Comment_148872

even call your local high school's english teacher for advice. Google "elementary grammar course" or "online beginner's grammar" and variations of those.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148870#Comment_148870

Perhaps Greek for the Rest of Us by William D. Mounce would be a good place to start. In his book he gives a link to the web site, BiblicalTraining.org. The book and the free online class, which is at that site under Foundations, takes you back to the basics on English grammar first, before he goes very deeply into Greek. (Sorry Logos, I didn't check first to see if you offered that book.) Hope this helps.

Sam West

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148879#Comment_148879

Guys am I that dense or is the videos a myth when they advertises that "anyone can learn the Greek and Hebrew with the Logos tools"

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148894#Comment_148894

Guys am I that dense or is the videos a myth when they advertises that "anyone can learn the Greek and Hebrew with the Logos tools"

Sam, to some extent I think that is sales hyperbole, these aren't going to teach you the language per se, they teach you how to use the Logos tools to parse the languages. But don't try and understand it all at once, this is going to be a process that is going to last for months (or for some of us, years). Learn a little bit, put it into practice and learn a little bit more. Don't try and eat this whole elephant in one big gulp. IMHO

MJ. Smith

never heard of some of the terms that I have heard and seen in these videos and the Forum (verbs stems, deponent, middle voice, construct nouns and etc.) Is it going to be the next thing to impossible for me to learn all this not having dealt with it in over 30 years?

No, it only means it will take you a bit longer. As schools decreased the formal grammar and foreign language requirements what used to be the first year Sanskrit text has become the second year Sanskrit text. But students do get there - just a bit slower.

In addition some of the terms will be the conventional terms used in Greek or Hebrew that no one knows until they start the language While the first few weeks may be overwhelming and frustrating, you will get to the point that you know the terms and understand the flow of the videos. You might even make your vocabulary lists or flash cards so you can keep track of what you know and don't know. http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOflinguisticTerms/ may be a useful resource for you of terms related to language.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148894#Comment_148894

Guys am I that dense or is the videos a myth when they advertises that "anyone can learn the Greek and Hebrew with the Logos tools"

I'll join the others by saying that learning a new language is a challenge. One of the tools we acquired in seminary when we started language training was a small handbook on the basics of English grammar. The professors assumed we might not have the background we needed even though we were getting along fine in English.

That said, the most important thing is not to get discouraged. If Logos could truly teach everyone Greek and Hebrew in a few hours they would have discovered something language students have longed for for generations. What they can do in a few hours is teach you enough about Greek and Hebrew to let you use the tools Logos provides to study the original languages. Frankly some of the terminology that frightens you now will not affect how you use these tools after you've learned what they are for from the videos.

I believe that if you use the videos to get acquainted with each language and the tools Logos offers, then review the videos again in a month or two, you will profit from them. Give it time and don't expect a single viewing to be enough.

While I don't want you to quit, Logos will refund your purchase price within 30 days.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148971#Comment_148971

That said, the most important thing is not to get discouraged.

I was a certified math and science teacher. I will say that I wish there was a way to just unscrew one ear and pour in the contents but it does not seem to work that way. I will give you some good thoughts though. Every single one of my students.....were able to succeed if they just tried.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148894#Comment_148894

Guys am I that dense or is the videos a myth when they advertises that "anyone can learn the Greek and Hebrew with the Logos tools"

Sam, you need to understand that the more languages you know the easier it is to learn the next one because you know more about how languages work. I had a professor, a German Jew whose family fled east during WWII. He taught a joint seminar where the text was always available in 3 languages (Chinese, Tibetan and Sanskrit). The students were expected to read two of these plus one additional language when available - Sogdian, Khotanese, Mongolian, Manchu, Japanese, Korean ... Whenever we asked Leon how many languages he knew he would always answer 14. But if you asked him to name them, after the major languages his list was never the same. We finally got him to admit to at least 31 but he figured 14 was the most anyone would believe. [:D]

My point is that if you haven't dealt with formal language - foreign or grammar - for a long time, you need to expect your progress to be slow. Don't beat up on yourself for being a typical student. Some of those with lots of language experience forget what it was like to learn the second and "over promise" - that doesn't mean anyone won't get there, it means that some need to move mush more slowly than others.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/148894#Comment_148894

Guys am I that dense or is the videos a myth when they advertises that "anyone can learn the Greek and Hebrew with the Logos tools"

It's a myth and I was "fairly good" at English once I learned to include "h's" in words[:)]

I also have a background learning French, German and Russian in High School so I've made an effort to use the Logos "Learning" and "Grammar" books on Greek, but I'll always struggle with Hebrew. However, the tools make it possible to copy & paste (after another learning curve about right to left pasting[:D]) and perform searches. I think i understand homonyms.

I depend heavily on the Hebrew-English Interlinears (the Lexham title is good) but one can use the Reverse Interlinears to good effect.

Friedrich

and never heard of some of the terms that I have heard and seen in these videos and the Forum (verbs stems, deponent, middle voice, construct nouns and etc.) Is it going to be the next thing to impossible for me to learn all this not having dealt with it in over 30 years? If not where do I start? Is there books, videos, correspondent courses? Please help me before I give up.

Thanks again for your good help

Sam, I just came across this resource from Logos that I own: Kairos: A Beginning Greek Grammar and Workbook.. It even starts out with English grammar and has exercises to do. Not sure if you are still wanting resources, but thought I would resurrect this thread incase you did. They have quite a bit to say about this resource in its write-up.

George Somsel

and never heard of some of the terms that I have heard and seen in these videos and the Forum (verbs stems, deponent, middle voice, construct nouns and etc.) Is it going to be the next thing to impossible for me to learn all this not having dealt with it in over 30 years? If not where do I start? Is there books, videos, correspondent courses? Please help me before I give up.

Thanks again for your good help

You might consider checking a good English dictionary for the definitions of some of these terms.

de•po•nent \di-ˈpō-nənt\ adjective [Late Latin deponent-, deponens, from Latin, present participle of deponere] 15th century : occurring with pass or middle voice forms but with active voice meaning 〈the deponent verbs in Latin and Greek〉 [Carl Conrad of the b-greek forum doesn't like the term deponent]

^{mid•dle \ˈmi-d^əl\ adjective}

[Middle English middel, from Old English; akin to Old English midde] before 12th century ^{of a verb form or voice : typically asserting that a person or thing both performs and is affected by the action represented}

stem \ˈstem\ noun ^{[Middle English, from Old English stefn, stemn stem of a plant or ship; akin to Old High German mid•dle \ˈmi-dəl\ adjective}
^{: the part of an inflected word that remains after the inflected part is removed 〈strength is the stem of strengths〉}

^{Merriam-Webster, Inc. Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Eleventh ed. Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc., 2003.}
^{With a little effort you can acquire a knowledge of all of the terms needed.}
^{EDIT: My apologies. I have had problems with the program scrambling my post and changing the font to where it is virtually illegible. You might also note that some of the text is raised above the line though it should not be. Several attempts to correct it have failed.}

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/156788#Comment_156788

EDIT: My apologies. I have had problems with the program scrambling my post and changing the font to where it is virtually illegible.

That's quite all Right!