Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)
As Logos gets more and more users, it opens up the possibility of adding larger and larger resources. They don't get much bigger than TLG. But at least it's already digitised. Access to the electronic version is actually very reasonable ($400 for 5 years), so it could be affordable in Logos.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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That would be good, I will keep an eye out for this resource in future.
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Mark Barnes said:
As Logos gets more and more users, it opens up the possibility of adding larger and larger resources. They don't get much bigger than TLG. But at least it's already digitised. Access to the electronic version is actually very reasonable ($400 for 5 years), so it could be affordable in Logos.
Perhaps a special discount rate could be negotiated for certified Logos users (hope, hope, hope). [A]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]
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Does anybody know if there are any updates to this? Can Logos integrate with TLG? I'm about to start a research project, and this question will make a significant impact to my schedule and research plan.
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Jason yuh said:
Can Logos integrate with TLG?
Unfortunately, there's been no progress. Logos has done a lot with Perseus, but nothing with TLG that I'm aware of.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thank you for your response. What kind of features are available with the Perseus integration? Are the text tagged? More specifically, I want to be able to search for pronouns that are specifically referring to a noun (i.e., not referring to a generic phrase or idea, or proper nouns). I am assuming that this feature is not available, but I wanted to double check since this would save a lot of time.
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Hello, Jason,
Welcome to the Fora. The Perseus Greek texts are indeed tagged morphologically. The familiar double click on a Greek word will take you to lexica. Best wishes in your research.
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Steve Maling said:
Hello, Jason,
Welcome to the Fora. The Perseus Greek texts are indeed tagged morphologically. The familiar double click on a Greek word will take you to lexica. Best wishes in your research.
Thank you for confirming that they are tagged. But do you (or anyone else) know if it has the capability to search for pronouns that are specifically referring to a noun (i.e., not referring to a generic phrase or idea, or proper nouns)? I'm assuming that this isn't even possible for the canonical books, but I just wanted to double check.
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Jason yuh said:
Thank you for confirming that they are tagged. But do you (or anyone else) know if it has the capability to search for pronouns that are specifically referring to a noun (i.e., not referring to a generic phrase or idea, or proper nouns)? I'm assuming that this isn't even possible for the canonical books, but I just wanted to double check.
Not to my knowledge.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Jason yuh said:
I'm assuming that this isn't even possible for the canonical books
You can't do this for canonical books either. Logos does have a Bible Facts database. Among other things this lists the pronouns that refer to each person, place or thing in the database. So I'm able to see that a pronoun is used to refer to a tree (the database is in English) in the NT only in Matt 12:33 and Rev 2:7.
What's frustrating is that Logos almost certainly has the data that ought to allow at least an approximation of such a search, but it doesn't have the syntax and mechanism to actually create the search.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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If it was in my budget, I would definitely go for this in Logos.
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[B]
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Well, it is now 2022. There is now the BDAG expanded bibliography. It is currently in pre-pub publication (early 2022, $129). Looking at the 25 volumes, they are not primary sources, but the books that talk about any given reference, structure or vocabulary. Here is the blurb:
BDAG Bibliography Expansion: Biblical Studies (25 vols.) | Logos Bible Software
BDAG Bibliography Expansion: Biblical Studies (25 vols.) includes of twenty-five classic works of Biblical research that the editors of the standard Greek-English lexicon for the New Testament considered important for studying New testament vocabulary. The third edition of A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, when it was published nearly 20 years ago, represented a watershed moment for New Testament studies. When these new books ship, we plan on also updating BDAG with links to these new volumes. Users who already have BDAG in their digital library will then be able to open them directly from the citations in their lexicon.
The most well-known change was Danker’s inclusion of extended definitions. But sometimes what does not change in a new edition is as important as those that did. BDAG is also famous (and some would say “infamous”!) for the vast quantity of its citation of secondary literature. Frederick Danker, himself, believed that these citations of the secondary literature were essential for students and scholars alike. Heeding Danker’s position, all of the BDAG Bibliography Expansions aim to make it easier for contemporary students and scholars to benefit from the knowledge of the past that is so often cited in pages of BDAG.
Since Perseus does not contain all Greek texts and TLG does, it is sure to follow that a user cannot link to primary source references in BDAG or other commentaries, grammars, (think Cooper/Kuhner Attic Greek Prose Syntax [on my Logos wish list] or Blass-Debrunner's grammar, etc. It will be years, before Logos gets to the point of having links to all primary references.
I was just following a reference to Enoch 106.3. Logos opened the English of Charlesworth's Pseudapigraph. I don't know how to get Logos to prefer to open the Greek text (maybe Enoch 106.3 is not in Greek). But if the TLG text numbering systems were linked to Logos - I could get to that text easily. It would be nice for users to know what numbering system is used for works such as Plato, etc. So I would like to see when I "right click" on a reference, would be to see in the pop-up box, perhaps directly below "Selection 106.3" which is at the top right, to see a link titled "Search TLG for reference."
(I dont know how to get an image of the pop-up menu).
I think the best solution would be for Faithlife/Logos to add a TLG subcription option, where Logos would charge a little more than the TLG price ($140 individual per year/$400 per individual for 5 years as of 1/2022). For TLG, you have to subscribe for at least a year. Maybe Logos could do a "monthly subscription" that could make TLG enough money to justify a business alliance between the two companies. $140/12 months = $12 per month (up from the actual $11.66/mo.) Maybe the cost for a Logos TLG subscription would be $15 per month. I would gladly pay that. If TLG could get hundreds of new TLG subscribers that would increase TLG's income, the TLG execs would probably make some kind of arrangement. Logos would probably fear they would lose selling some Loeb versions which are morphologically linked with an English parallel text. But Logos could make up or even fund their Loeb development costs with the extra income from the new TLG subscription that Logos would now offer. I think this could be a win-win for all parties: TLG, Loeb, Logos, and all the new TLG/Logos subscription subscibers.
Logos Execs: Step up to the plate. You can make this happen.
μαῖα, ας, ἡ (Hom. et al.; LXX; En 106:3, 11; Philo; APF 370 II 3 [II A.D.]); lit. ‘mama’, also midwife GJs 5:2 (twice); 18:1; 19:1 (Bodmer once; codd. twice); 19:2 (twice); 20:1 (codd.).
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 610). University of Chicago Press.
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Well, it is now 2022. There is now the BDAG expanded bibliography. It is currently in pre-pub publication (early 2022, $149). Looking at the 25 volumes, they are not primary sources, but the books that talk about any given reference, structure or vocabulary. Here is the blurb:
BDAG Bibliography Expansion: Biblical Studies (25 vols.) | Logos Bible Software
BDAG Bibliography Expansion: Biblical Studies (25 vols.) includes of twenty-five classic works of Biblical research that the editors of the standard Greek-English lexicon for the New Testament considered important for studying New testament vocabulary. The third edition of A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, when it was published nearly 20 years ago, represented a watershed moment for New Testament studies. When these new books ship, we plan on also updating BDAG with links to these new volumes. Users who already have BDAG in their digital library will then be able to open them directly from the citations in their lexicon.
The most well-known change was Danker’s inclusion of extended definitions. But sometimes what does not change in a new edition is as important as those that did. BDAG is also famous (and some would say “infamous”!) for the vast quantity of its citation of secondary literature. Frederick Danker, himself, believed that these citations of the secondary literature were essential for students and scholars alike. Heeding Danker’s position, all of the BDAG Bibliography Expansions aim to make it easier for contemporary students and scholars to benefit from the knowledge of the past that is so often cited in pages of BDAG.
Since Perseus does not contain all Greek texts and TLG does, it is sure to follow that a user cannot link to primary source references in BDAG or other commentaries, grammars, (think Cooper/Kuhner Attic Greek Prose Syntax [on my Logos wish list] or Blass-Debrunner's grammar, etc. It will be years, before Logos gets to the point of having links to all primary references.
I was just following a reference to Enoch 106.3. Logos opened the English of Charlesworth's Pseudapigraph. I don't know how to get Logos to prefer to open the Greek text (maybe Enoch 106.3 is not in Greek). But if the TLG text numbering systems were linked to Logos - I could get to that text easily. It would be nice for users to know what numbering system is used for works such as Plato, etc. So I would like to see when I "right click" on a reference, would be to see in the pop-up box, perhaps directly below "Selection 106.3" which is at the top right, to see a link titled "Search TLG for reference."
(I don't know how to get an image of the pop-up menu).
I think the best solution would be for FaithLife/Logos to add a TLG subscription option, where Logos would charge a little more than the TLG price ($140 individual per year/$400 per individual for 5 years as of 1/2022). For TLG, you have to subscribe for at least a year. Maybe Logos could do a "monthly subscription" that could make TLG enough money to justify a business alliance between the two companies. $140/12 months = $12 per month (up from the actual $11.66/mo.) Maybe the cost for a Logos TLG subscription would be $15 per month. I would gladly pay that. If TLG could get hundreds of new TLG subscribers that would increase TLG's income, the TLG execs would probably make some kind of arrangement. Logos would probably fear they would lose selling some Loeb versions which are morphologically linked with an English parallel text. But Logos could make up or even fund their Loeb development costs with the extra income from the new TLG subscription that Logos would now offer. I think this could be a win-win for all parties: TLG, Loeb, Logos, and all the new TLG/Logos subscription subscribers.
Logos Execs: Step up to the plate. You can make this happen.
μαῖα, ας, ἡ (Hom. et al.; LXX; En 106:3, 11; Philo; APF 370 II 3 [II A.D.]); lit. ‘mama’, also midwife GJs 5:2 (twice); 18:1; 19:1 (Bodmer once; codd. twice); 19:2 (twice); 20:1 (codd.).
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 610). University of Chicago Press.
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Louis L Sorenson said:
Well, it is now 2022.
Well, Louis, it's now 2023! A 13-year thread from a great suggestion from Mark.
I (obviously) have no clue what Faithlife sees as its future ... beyond 'not that'. But in the original languages arena, it would seem like 'contracting out' wherever possible would be a good strategy. Doesn't demand significant high-end staffing, and is flexible against FL multi-platforms and changed-stategies.
- A direct contract can easily be passed along to FL users needing access, thru either features, or subscriptions.
- TLG's primary appeal is institutional (academic) ... a market Faithlife needs to continually 'sew-up'
- TLG delivery is very likely easy on the programming budget (as Wikipedia was)
- And TLG is good for marketing, to enhance Logos' academic cache'.
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I added an resource request in Faithlife Feedback.
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