How do I search for Verba Geminata?

I need to search all the verba geminata that come in a certain morphological form (impf 3ms).

What this basically mean is that the second root radical is the same as the third like סבב גרר צרר שדד.

I found an article on the INTERNET explaining how to do that in Logos 3.

http://blog.logos.com/archives/2008/06/how_can_i_find_all_geminate_verbs_in_the_ot.html

I tried what they suggest but it does not work for me on Logos 4 and I have no idea how I can make this search work...

What is the syntax for Logos 4 for searches of verb classes like hollow verbs or verbs whose first radical is a sibilant (that means to supply a list of possible consonants for the first radical) etc.?

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Comments

Rosie Perera

Sorry for the delay in response. I usually don't dive into the Morph search questions, but since nobody else has jumped in, I'll go ahead and give it a try:

First, the first section of the syntax of that (lemma:/.(.)\1/) will be the same in Logos 4, but the segment that tells Logos which morphology to use is no longer part of the syntax. Rather you select it in the User Interface (see #2 below):

As for the morphology, you don't need to memorize all those codes (though they are documented if you want to learn them and think it would be quicker than selecting things from the menu). As soon as you type the @ after the lemma bit, Logos will pop up a menu for you to select the part of speech:

And once you select the part of speech, the menu will fly out and offer you all the other sub-options applicable for that part of speech:

As you select these items, it builds up the morphology search code for you, in this case: @v?i3ms

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/156177#Comment_156177

Rosie,

The results of your post seemed off to me, I was under the impression that the regular expression searching had not been incorporated into Logos 4 so I did some digging and I don't think the results for this search are reliable.

I noticed that lemma:/.(.)\1/ did not produce any search results for any of the 3 Hebrew morphologies I have in my library.
I then moved on to try lemma:/.(.)\1/@v?i3ms - 1621 results as you got.
I then tried lemma:/.(.)\1/@v - 1621 results again, I started to get even more suspicious
lemma:/.(.)\1/@Vc and lemma:/.(.)\1/@Vb both searches 1621 results

Something is definitely off! The results given by 2-4 were indeed Geminate verbs but the morph code beyond @v seemed to be ignored. I fired up Libronix and was able to limit geminate verbs searches as I expected to.

My Hebrew is very rusty but even I can see these results are off. I'll probably post a bug? inquiry later today when I have time.

Mr. Knoll,

For these types of searches you might want to install L3. George Somsel, a forum regular who appears to know Hebrew quite well, doesn't care for the way that L4 performs in Hebrew searches. You can run L3 alongside L4 with no problems. Here's the link: http://www.logos.com/support/downloads/ldls

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/156236#Comment_156236

Kevin, you may be right. I didn't really look at the results very carefully, just saw that it did seem to find some geminate verbs and didn't dig further.

David Knoll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/156236#Comment_156236

Rosie,

The results of your post seemed off to me, I was under the impression that the regular expression searching had not been incorporated into Logos 4 so I did some digging and I don't think the results for this search are reliable.

I noticed that lemma:/.(.)\1/ did not produce any search results for any of the 3 Hebrew morphologies I have in my library.

I then moved on to try lemma:/.(.)\1/@v?i3ms - 1621 results as you got.

I then tried lemma:/.(.)\1/@v - 1621 results again, I started to get even more suspicious

lemma:/.(.)\1/@Vc and lemma:/.(.)\1/@Vb both searches 1621 results

Something is definitely off! The results given by 2-4 were indeed Geminate verbs but the morph code beyond @v seemed to be ignored. I fired up Libronix and was able to limit geminate verbs searches as I expected to.

My Hebrew is very rusty but even I can see these results are off. I'll probably post a bug? inquiry later today when I have time.

Mr. Knoll,

For these types of searches you might want to install L3. George Somsel, a forum regular who appears to know Hebrew quite well, doesn't care for the way that L4 performs in Hebrew searches. You can run L3 alongside L4 with no problems. Here's the link: http://www.logos.com/support/downloads/ldls

First of all thank you both. Unfortunately this is too late for me. I returned the software. The geminate search was one of the reasons I thought I would give Logos a try since in BW it is very difficult to perform. I was unaware of the ability to run Logs 3 if you own 4.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/156513#Comment_156513

Unfortunately this is too late for me. I returned the software.

I'm sorry to hear that. I was appreciating your knowledge and contributions to the "The Message (a Hebrew question)" thread. People with your expertise are what helps make Logos keep getting better in each new release, as they are very responsive to user suggestions.

Ah well, BW is a good product too, I'm sure. And maybe you'll be back to give Logos another try sometime in the future.

Blessings.

DLS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/156541#Comment_156541

I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Has anyone had any success searching for inflected geminate roots?

I'm having the same problem David Knoll had: it seems like Logos ignores any further morphological information I place after "lemma:/.(.)\1/@v" For example, "lemma:/.(.)\1/@Vc"should find only hiphils, but it gives me all geminate verbs.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/592090#Comment_592090

it seems like Logos ignores any further morphological information I place after "lemma:/.(.)\1/@v"

One has to be careful about using Regular Expressions in Logos 4/5. lemma:/.(.)\1/q gives the same results as lemma:/.(.)\1/@v and lemma:/.(.)\1/ gives no results i.e. there is no parsing for morphological information after the Regular Expression, but something is needed to delimit the expression. The matching on consonants appears to be exact, whereas Libronix will match consonants irrespective of marks.

So the way to include the morphological information in this Search is to specify lemma:/.(.)\1/q WITHIN 0 CHAR @Vc (this is the actual syntax used by the shorthand lemma:wordmorph_expression). In WIVU the result is very close to that in Libronix using lemma:/.(.)\1/ WITHIN 0 CHARS [=Vc??????].

Daniel Carver

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/592246#Comment_592246

Well... none of these works now. I was directed to the community conversations by a Logos rep, but there is no viable solution offered here. Is it possible to search for geminate verbs?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1316532#Comment_1316532

You may notice that this thread is a decade or more old. The Search has been substantially revised in this time. Start a thread in the desktop, web, or mobile forums depending upon which software you wish to run the search in.

Brian Leathers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1316532#Comment_1316532

Here is how you search for all of the Hebrew Geminate verbs: section:grammaticalConstructions:"Geminate Verb"