Why do Verbumites pay the same as Logosians for a lesser product
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. Is there anything that prevents a person from dl'ing and running both versions on the same system?
No - a number of people on the forums are doing this
f the answer is no, is there a real problem?
The only issue I am aware of is disk space as each one requires its own download of resources etc - they are not shared.
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s, if a 'united' logos/verbum project would have some catholic touch
Faithlife got a dose of the evangelical reaction when for a short time there was an option to define the canon in the program settings. It brought out the worst of a small number of users of Logos ... but my observation was that the issue was not theological, it was much more how much diversity the individuals had experienced and how open they were to experience it. My very conservative, rural, fundamentalist parents in their 90's loved the diversity of their urban retirement home - excited to tell us about their newest discovery from the caregiver from Burkina Faso or the religion of their Armenian dinner mate ... these Logosians were the polar opposites of my parents.
Separate marketing - yes. Separate development is a ridiculous increase in cost most likely derived from not understanding how much of a continuum their market is.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The same is true with the "on this day in history" feature.
But at the moment we do have it ... I amuse myself by observing how recent history appears to be ... we've been told there will be a difference in content but I haven't seen it yet.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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It stands to reason that people want to use the software according to their beliefs. As such, they probably wouldn’t invest in books outside of them.
Given the advice of my parish priest --> for Bible studies buy from Lutheran publishers, for liturgy but from Anglican and Orthodox publishers, for theology buy from Catholic publishers ... yes, there is a large slice of Catholics that are more concerned tags than content. I am actually more concerned with Orthodox in the recent diaspora needing a software to call their own ... they already depend heavily on websites and ebooks. I wish Faithlife would step up to that plate but finding the right intermediary is problematic.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Is there anything that prevents a person from dl'ing and running both versions on the same system?
No, I do it all the time - one in beta, one in production. However, there are certain items e.g. the Passage Guide that is actually changed by opening in Verbum after creating in Logos that I have to remember not to do. And there are many forum questions that I don't bother to answer because it requires switching which application I have up. Yes, I can run them simultaneously if I close my browser, screen capture, and word processor. But I simply don't think I should have to run both for basic functions, especially when I know it increases the software development costs. I have no problem with switching apps to find differences in default priorities, etc.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The same is true with the "on this day in history" feature.
But at the moment we do have it ... I amuse myself by observing how recent history appears to be ... we've been told there will be a difference in content but I haven't seen it yet.
I don't have it and I'm V9 Platinum. How do you have it?
KSC
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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I don’t think of it as a tag issue. I see it as people looking for more insights into their own beliefs. What you quoted should be interpreted in that light.It stands to reason that people want to use the software according to their beliefs. As such, they probably wouldn’t invest in books outside of them.
Given the advice of my parish priest --> for Bible studies buy from Lutheran publishers, for liturgy but from Anglican and Orthodox publishers, for theology buy from Catholic publishers ... yes, there is a large slice of Catholics that are more concerned tags than content. I am actually more concerned with Orthodox in the recent diaspora needing a software to call their own ... they already depend heavily on websites and ebooks. I wish Faithlife would step up to that plate but finding the right intermediary is problematic.
I do use the Verbum, Orthodox, and Anglican sets. I picked up a lot of the other packages under the 50% discount for L8 mainly for the ability to read the actual words of the early Protestant founders.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
I don't have it and I'm V9 Platinum. How do you have it?
I turned it on in the home page:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I don’t think of it as a tag issue. I see it as people looking for more insights into their own beliefs.
I dare you to find anything written by an Orthodox author on liturgical theology - or liturgy - that is different from Catholic beliefs. In some cases we use identical liturgical books and borrow catechisms. With the possible except of interpretations of Paul on grace, how much do you have to strain to find something in a Lutheran Bible commentary that differs from a Catholic one? One of the strengths of Logos is that it allows us to build a library based on the quality of the scholarship rather than the denominational tag.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I don't have it and I'm V9 Platinum. How do you have it?
I turned it on in the home page:
Interesting. I can't find where I have the ability to turn it on at the home page.
KSC
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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Try:
Home Page [get to]
Explore gear thing [click on]
Check Verbum Training Videos [click on]
Gave me a card: layout Ver 9 class [click on] [but not the same view as above posts]
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I can't find where I have the ability to turn it on at the home page.
In the Explore section
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks Dave and MJ! I do not have the choice (see image)....so I guess some Verbumites pay for a lesser product not only as Logosians but among Verbumites as well! [:(]
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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Thanks Dave and MJ! I do not have the choice (see image)....so I guess some Verbumites pay for a lesser product not only as Logosians but among Verbumites as well!
I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
As a note, “Today in History“ seems to be aimed at a Protestant set of references. Many of them don’t show have any information when clicked on. I suspect it’s because I don’t have the resources in the right tiers.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Thanks Dave and MJ! I do not have the choice (see image)....so I guess some Verbumites pay for a lesser product not only as Logosians but among Verbumites as well!
I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
As a note, “Today in History“ seems to be aimed at a Protestant set of references. Many of them don’t show have any information when clicked on. I suspect it’s because I don’t have the resources in the right tiers.
I think you are right.
Thanks,
KSC
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
Interesting. I should check and see if the option is missing now
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
Are you a beta user? The resource was available for a period of time to beta users for testing purposes.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
Are you a beta user? The resource was available for a period of time to beta users for testing purposes.
Yes. But I should also have a license to it.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I was told by Faithlife the Logos and Verbum engine is the same so I assumed all the content was the same. I have long believed Faithlife should have the Faithlife bible software for everyone with one engine to run it all and everyone has the same features and content but depending on what base packages you have fuel the software.
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I came into this whole area via a sale offer on the old Libronix library. It was something I had to buy for myself and I could not have easily afforded the full price, even then.
I had no difficulty with moving over to Logos when it came out. I was very happy with it, but was heavily pushed to use this "new product" - Verbum, which I got for free. Again, I would have struggled to buy it at full price and could hardly justify a second program alongside Logos.
Apart from the layout and the fact that it seemed more sophisticated than my then version of Logos, Verbum shared the same resources and when I bought any resource it got downloaded to both programmes. Initially, I had used Logos as a slightly upgraded version of the old Libronix system and found that some upgrades actually reduced or removed functionality I was used to. My first experience of Verbum was quite different as it included the multimedia resources, such as pictures and films and my first encounter with the video courses one can buy.
In every other respect, they seemed to be the same. I noticed no real difference. Then, three to five years ago, I realised that Verbum was heavily promoting Catholic material. I do not remember doing anything to trigger this change such as buying anything explicitly and exclusively Catholic, nor did I identify as a Catholic in any online survey or form.
To be clear, I am from a British ecumenical (Protestant) background, growing up in an Anglican/Methodist congregation - yep, one congregation reflecting two traditions and am currently part of a formally Baptist congregation which is actually quite ecumenical in composition. I see myself as broadly protestant - note the small "p" - with wide interests, e.g.; in Anabaptism at one end to Orthodoxy at the other. In terms of the language of this discussion I would be both "third circle" and broadly "academic", since my career has balanced the twin poles of local church preaching and evangelism and broader teaching/lecturing/mentoring and I have used the software primarily for the latter.
So I might read from any tradition, but I would probably not be as invested in very particularly Catholic texts as a committed Catholic would - but then I am not as interested in some very "Protestant" material as a committed Lutheran or Reformed (Calvinist) might be, either.
It is helpful to realise that Verbum is supposed to be Catholic. I had assumed I had done something to the program which changed the original settings. Indeed, that is why I came to this page, to try to understand what Verbum is doing.
I ran both Logos and Verbum, initially, because they had quite different features. I now see very little functional difference at all and none as far as my downloaded resources. (I resist the onscreen boxes that promote new books and other material as a matter of course. I want to choose what I buy according to my own needs, not because a sample in a pretty box pops up in front of me).
I may get rid of Verbum, simply because it seems utterly unnecessary and even stupid, for me, to have the same resources duplicated - esp. since everything I purchase now goes to both. It might be different if I was being offered different resources for each program.
As it is, I have recently retired and cannot afford the big packages or even many of the single resources. I now only regularly "buy" the monthly free books, but will splash out occasionally. (Even when working, I did not have the kind of expenses that would have permitted me to buy any of the current packages.) In addition, Covid Lockdown has meant that I have had to give up the little remaining unpaid Bible Study teaching I used to do. I keep the software and resources because I still feel I can learn and because I continue to mentor others in their academic journeys.
I had not realised the problems people were encountering with Verbum and certainly think that it is very unfair to have a different and lesser product and still be paying as much for it. I am sad about the apparent need to have two software packages, simply because some evangelical protestants might be uncomfortable that Catholics might use "their" software.
(The fact that a particular user may want a set of resources that reflects their own tradition is quite different and needn't be a problem for anyone, just as long as we accept that other users will want to do the same in respect of their own tradition. Obviously, a lot of historical material will be common to all, especially if you go back far enough. It is sad, though, if indwelling one's own tradition means rigorously avoiding any contact with any other. At an academic level there is some degree of openness to insights from across the traditions - although this is only to a degree. At grassroots, too, churches do work together, but somewhere between those two extremes we seem to have lost the plot.)
I hope Faithlife will take serious notice and give enhanced full functionality to Verbum users and perhaps, more control and choice to all users, so that we can become more aware of the breadth and depth of our (ultimately) shared heritage.
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