Christian Family Base Packages - now available!

Hello everyone,

I'm happy to announce a new line of base packages that we are adding to the familiar line-up: the Christian Family base packages.

These packages seek to serve families who want to do Bible study together by allowing one to purchase six licenses of any level of package for one price. With five levels to choose from, there's a package to fit every family's study needs.

To learn more or to purchase, check out our Christian Family packages page.

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MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162374#Comment_1162374

[:D]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162368#Comment_1162368

You can continue to justify your position based on the email, but it isn't the legal position (though it may be useful to prevent you being prosecuted!).

Get off your self-righteous horse. Again, do you read? I've said "My wife has NEVER EVER used Logos. I’ve been trying to suck her into it, but have not been successful thus far. Faithlife can look up my account and confirm that."

Since your wife has never used Logos, you clearly couldn't be prosecuted right now for violating the ToS. Since you've "been trying to suck her into it", by your own admission, it is possible that she might use Logos in the future. If she were to use Logos in the future, then in the event that prosecution was later being considered for you for having potentially violated to the ToS, the email you've been quoting from in this thread "may be useful to prevent you being prosecuted".

I read, too. [;)]

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162493#Comment_1162493

1Cor10:31">

You can continue to justify your position based on the email, but it isn't the legal position (though it may be useful to prevent you being prosecuted!).

Get off your self-righteous horse. Again, do you read? I've said "My wife has NEVER EVER used Logos. I’ve been trying to suck her into it, but have not been successful thus far. Faithlife can look up my account and confirm that."

I read, too. Wink

See below my response to JT

I encourage you to email Bob himself with your concerns.

Thanks JT. When my wife decides she wants to research using Logos, I will take the route you're suggesting. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. We work together professionally, we workout together,..., so we spend enormous amount of time together. I think she feels that doing Biblical stuff is one of the few things we can do separately, otherwise we will be in each other's face 24x7!

Kiyah

Hello everyone,

I'm happy to announce a new line of base packages that we are adding to the familiar line-up: the Christian Family base packages.

These packages seek to serve families who want to do Bible study together by allowing one to purchase six licenses of any level of package for one price. With five levels to choose from, there's a package to fit every family's study needs.

To learn more or to purchase, check out our Christian Family packages page.

When I go to this page I can't actually see what is in each package. Has something changed? Are the packages being updated? Am I missing something?

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162510#Comment_1162510

Has something changed?

Yes. There was an option to see inside yesterday.

Jacob Hantla

Is it just me or am I doing something really stupid?

I can't figure out how to see what is in each of these packages. At the site: https://www.logos.com/christian-family I'm able to add any one of the levels to my cart and assign it to my family group. But I see no obvious way to see what is actually in each level.

Greg Dement

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162645#Comment_1162645

Hmm, there was another link I used before to see Package contents, now it is not working.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162645#Comment_1162645

Is it just me or am I doing something really stupid?

I can't figure out how to see what is in each of these packages. At the site: https://www.logos.com/christian-family I'm able to add any one of the levels to my cart and assign it to my family group. But I see no obvious way to see what is actually in each level.

I cannot figure it out either.

Daniel Motley (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162774#Comment_1162774

Hi all,

There was a display issue regarding the product pages that forced us to take them offline. They're still available for sell via www.logos.com/christian-family. We're working to provide an alternative way to look at the contents of the package and should be up by end of day today or tomorrow. My apologies for the issues!

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162803#Comment_1162803

There was a display issue regarding the product pages that forced us to take them offline. They're still available for sell via www.logos.com/christian-family. We're working to provide an alternative way to look at the contents of the package and should be up by end of day today or tomorrow. My apologies for the issues!

Thanks for taking the time to update us. [Y]

Jason Henriksen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1162803#Comment_1162803

Any news on when we will be able to see the differences in the packages?

Daniel Motley (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164106#Comment_1164106

Any news on when we will be able to see the differences in the packages?

It should be rolled out here in the next few hours. Thank you for your patience!

Jason Henriksen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164107#Comment_1164107

I see they are live. Thank you. Excited to share this with my wife and kids with a less of an investment than I have in it. [:P]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164107#Comment_1164107

It might be better if the spreadsheet view didn't default to showing a mere 10 entries.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164289#Comment_1164289

It might be better if the spreadsheet view didn't default to showing a mere 10 entries.

Yes...

Daniel Motley (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164289#Comment_1164289

It might be better if the spreadsheet view didn't default to showing a mere 10 entries.

I've put in a request to change that default to a higher number. Thanks for the feedback!

Josh Hunt

wish this had dynamic pricing!

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164387#Comment_1164387

wish this had dynamic pricing!

Yes...

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1164364#Comment_1164364

It might be better if the spreadsheet view didn't default to showing a mere 10 entries.

I've put in a request to change that default to a higher number. Thanks for the feedback!

Seems to have defaulted to 100 now. A much better number!

EDIT: I do miss being able to compare the contents of these packages with what I already have licenses for.

lala

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1161517#Comment_1161517

The link for Christian Family Feature Set does not work anymore. Faithlife, is there a Christian Family Feature upgrade?

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169251#Comment_1169251

The link for Christian Family Feature Set does not work anymore. Faithlife, is there a Christian Family Feature upgrade?

Greetings Lala and welcome to the Forums. These boards are principally volunteer led. You can often get a very quick response to any questions you may have so please do ask.

I this case this link is working for me; give it a try.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169332#Comment_1169332

I this case this link is working for me; give it a try.

That's not a link to or leading to a feature set.

Josiah Hill

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1160923#Comment_1160923

Your argument about paper books has been raised often, but seemingly to no avail. Publishers seem to treat digital resources differently that print resources. I can't say I am happy about everything in the User agreement, but that is the way it is.

That's true, up to a point. But, several years ago Apple, Google, and many others figured out a way to fix this issue. Family groups in Apple now have the ability to share purchases over several different Apple ID's--movies, tv shows, apps, music, and BOOKS. So, I don't buy the excuse that Logos keeps giving about "Copyright restrictions" and all. That's not true with ebooks purchased on Apple or Αmazon, only on Logos. For proof, here are the pages discussing these from Apple and Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GEX2D6QN8PKQJAJ2

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/download-family-members-purchases-iph4cd8953e2/ios#:~:text=When%20you%20set%20up%20Family,family%20organizer's%20Apple%20ID%20account.

What's more, each Apple ID that is used to download those digital resources (books, apps, movies, etc.) get their own copy, free of other family members highlights and settings. So again, Logos seems to be the only one that can't figure this out. I suspect it's because they don't want to...

If you look up any Logos Base package and scroll to the bottom of the page, you'll see a section with reviews/ratings. Have you noticed that the family packages don't have that? Well, they used to--very briefly! When these family libraries were released, I excitedly looked them up. "Finally, they're going to enable family sharing!" I thought. But no, just a discount on repurchasing content I already own. [:(]

So, I left a critical review on one of the family packages stating what I just said above about Apple and Amazon and copyright restrictions. I've spend thousands on my library--why can't I share that content with my wife and kids on their own separate profiles?!?! Within hours, Logos removed the entire page where you could view the family package (and my review)! For days, you couldn't even view what resources came in the packages! Eventually, they restructured the pages where the family package contents are listed so that they were displayed as a pop-up (as they currently still are). Conspicuously missing from these pages was the review section. That's right--one critical review and they just took away the rating system entirely for these family packages.

I love Logos and recommend it highly to all my friends and fellow ministers. But their refusal to allow for true family sharing is very frustrating, and their shady removal of negative reviews tells me that they know more would follow! I will not be purchasing one of these family packages on principle. I'm not buying separate copies of every resource I already own, and I shouldn't have to.

Josiah Hill

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1161053#Comment_1161053

We'd still very much like to deliver a license pooling model for families (as is becoming standard in the digital content space), where qualifying resources from every users' licenses get shared with all comembers in the group. Once a child leaves the home, he or she would lose access to the family license pool and take his or her own licenses out of the family pool, too.

There are two obstacles to delivering this: (1) rights and (2) technical. We'd need to get addendums signed per rightsholder (for some or all of their resources), and then we'd need to build the licenses pooling functionality. For our own content (e.g., Lexham, Mobile Ed, public domain), #1 isn't a blocker. We haven't yet started securing permission from third-party publishers, since we don't have the development work scheduled yet. We have a pretty clear idea how we'd solve it, but it is a multi-month effort from multiple developers and we've had more pressing priorities to solve to date.

As an avid Logos user and father of four young children (two of whom love using Logos with dad and can't wait to work at Faithlife when they get older), I still strongly believe in this and would love to see us solve it in the next couple of years. 2021 is already fully booked (and then some), but perhaps 2022 is a possibility. It's too early to say for sure.

Thank you for this answer!!! Every time I've asked about family licensing, I get the vague "copyright restrictions" answer, which just doesn't answer the question. Apple, Amazon, and other digital content providers have figured this out, so it has just seemed to me like Faithlife doesn't want to address this for fear of loosing revenue. (I, for one, think it would likely INCREASE faithlife's revenue. If my wife had access to my library, she'd probably start using Logos. But, her tastes and interests are different than mine, so she'd likely end up purchasing resources I wouldn't have bought. Currently she's not a Logos user, but a shared family license would probably change that and get her using the platform. But neither of us are interested in starting her library from scratch, since I've invested thousands in mine already.)

Having the family license revoked when a kid leaves the nest makes perfect sense. It's very comforting to know that you guys are at least aware of the need for true family sharing and working on a solution. My only request is to please prioritize this! In the end, it'll help your business. More Logos users = more revenue (and more importantly, more people with access to awesome Bible study materials!).

Jeffrey T. Requadt

I looked around a little before asking. Is there a way to compare what you get with a Faithlife Connect subscription (which is what I have now) with a Christian Family package? I would consider switching over if I could see what the difference is.

And for using Family Groups, I would find it really helpful to be able to share certain resources (e.g., Bible versions) that I have paid for already with other family members who have their own FL accounts, even if they don't have a license yet that would cover that resource. I understand the concern with abusing such a policy, but surely it could be something like how Amazon allows you to loan certain kindle books to other users.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173713#Comment_1173713

I looked around a little before asking. Is there a way to compare what you get with a Faithlife Connect subscription (which is what I have now) with a Christian Family package? I would consider switching over if I could see what the difference is.

And for using Family Groups, I would find it really helpful to be able to share certain resources (e.g., Bible versions) that I have paid for already with other family members who have their own FL accounts, even if they don't have a license yet that would cover that resource. I understand the concern with abusing such a policy, but surely it could be something like how Amazon allows you to loan certain kindle books to other users.

Not possible at the moment. Lending resources involves too many copyright © issues to allow it to happen. People will definitely abuse it. I reported a website back in the Libronix days where people were thanking God for all the Gold Base packages they were able to unlock for free. Pretty much stealing!

As far as FL Connect goes, it all depends on your subscription. I have Connect No Library, so yours may be different.

DAL

Greg Dement

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173724#Comment_1173724

Just curious, how is Amazon able to allow family sharing and limited loaning to anyone under the same copyright issues?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173752#Comment_1173752

Just curious, how is Amazon able to allow family sharing and limited loaning to anyone under the same copyright issues?

Copyright describes ownership. Publisher agreements/contracts describe access (and $$). Amazon is a big-boy, along with Apple. FL isn't. And Phil's answer for 2022 is carefully worded. Selected resources.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173752#Comment_1173752

Just curious, how is Amazon able to allow family sharing and limited loaning to anyone under the same copyright issues?

That, FL would have to answer; but my guess is: It’s not good business for them. Besides, Amazon books do not have all the functionalities a Logos book has. Not even close. I prefer a Logos book if I can afford it. I don’t like loaning out books anyway; many have never been returned and then I end up being the bad guy for asking for my book back 🤦🏻‍♂️ So, no votes from me to add this feature to Logos books. Too many bad experiences with my print books, don’t want that to carry over to my digital investment.

DAL

Jeffrey T. Requadt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173752#Comment_1173752

To be honest, I have no idea how exactly they make that work. I just know that in my kindle library, some books have the option of being loaned to other people (not all). During that time, they are not available on my kindle. I can take them back at any moment. Also, with a Family Library in Amazon (where certain user accounts are added as family), the books that are purchased for each account can be made available in the family library (but they aren't available automatically).

Jeffrey T. Requadt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173756#Comment_1173756

Just to be clear, though, that if loaning or borrowing were hypothetically available, it doesn't mean that you would HAVE to loan books/resources to anyone.

Jeffrey T. Requadt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173724#Comment_1173724

I also have a Connect No Library, so that's why I'm really curious to see how much overlap there is with a Family Package. I would consider switching if the overlap was things I actually cared about.

Jeffrey T. Requadt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173752#Comment_1173752

To be honest, I have no idea how exactly they make that work. I just know that in my kindle library, some books have the option of being loaned to other people (not all). During that time, they are not available on my kindle, but I can take them back at any moment. Also, with a Family Library in Amazon (where certain user accounts are added as family), the books that are purchased for each account can be made available in the family library (but they aren't available automatically).

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173874#Comment_1173874

I also have a Connect No Library, so that's why I'm really curious to see how much overlap there is with a Family Package. I would consider switching if the overlap was things I actually cared about.

Aaaah ok 👌 Well, there’s nothing to compare. All you have to do is look at the Christian family package and see what’s included. You have FL Connect No Library, which means you’re not getting any books, just the benefits like access to full features, 3 free classic e-books, temporary access to one Mobile Ed course every 6 months and a 25% coupon to use on a Lexham Press Title; plus a free book preview every month and up to 40% off that preview and other resources in an exclusive product page which has a few resources on sale.

Now, if you own a base package, then just look at the resources included in the Family package and you’ll be able to see what you own and what you don’t own.

I’m afraid there’s no simple way to go about it. Maybe call a sales rep 👨‍💼

DAL