Removing the Store (cart) icon in Logos 9
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The really annoying thing about this forum is MVPs (as well as others) chiming in whenever a customer has a complaint: "FaithLife is not wrong--you are.
There are various things we find annoying Sean. I, for one, find the assertion that the Logos programme has been 'paid' for particularly irksome.
The part of my message you did not quote suggested a way forward that might allow the 'store access' points to become an option and still make business sense.
I am not implying that anyone is wrong for wanting fewer of them, or even none at all. I just see the business case for having them.
Actually, in the past, when I have clicked on a link to an unowned resource I have rued the fact that there wasn't a quick and easy way of accessing the store. So that I could efficiently obtain it without too much of a break in my flow.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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I run Verbum and I was just wondering...if I start the software as "Logos" will the Store App button give me a different list of books? When I click on the Store icon in Verbum the Library opens with a listing of 2355 results. I was curious as to if the list would be larger if I switch the "Verbum" interface to the Logos interface and then click on the Store Icon?
I suspect it would be different. When I clicked on the store icon, having Ultimate, there are ~400 items shown. That squares with the Verbum website when I click on the not owned filter
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
I think you are both correct!
It will be a simple fix, but FL should not have wasted time and resources on this in the first place and should have used their limited time, resources and effort to deal with your wish list of fixes (and the many 'popular' fixes and suggestions on feedbear) (BTW, I think I have supported all of your great ideas on feedbear, MJ). I definitely did not see any request anywhere for another space-consuming toolbar icon in the suggestions!!
However, having done the deed they need to provide an option for us to remove it. It does affect me (and others) as a priority and for me is important, gving me "reduced value". I know it is not important for you, but everyone has their own self-motivated priorities based on their own work flows. But, I reiterate, I too would love for them to prioritize fixes and suggestions from feedbear. But this now is a fix needed.
FL should make use of their beta testing feedback (where this was also noted) and listen to users.
[Y] The forums need an "amen" button like Faithlife.com has.
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As far as I know, no one seemed to mind then.
They do, now.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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I run Verbum and I was just wondering...if I start the software as "Logos" will the Store App button give me a different list of books? When I click on the Store icon in Verbum the Library opens with a listing of 2355 results. I was curious as to if the list would be larger if I switch the "Verbum" interface to the Logos interface and then click on the Store Icon?
Yes.
I don't care what a company does when I can just as easily ignore it like it's not there and go on with my study.
Some of us cannot so easily ignore it.
Do you call your TV provider or ISP to complain and ask that all commercials and ads be removed since you don't want to be sold something, you just want to watch your tv or surf the web uninterrupted? Or, do you just click on by ignoring the commercials and ads like they are not there?
That is not an apt comparison.
A less distant one would be if you bought an ordinary DVD player and then later on the maker of the DVD player did an OTA firmware update to your DVD player so that there'd be a store icon covering the top right corner of the screen whenever you were watching a DVD using the player.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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The really annoying thing about this forum is MVPs (as well as others) chiming in whenever a customer has a complaint: "FaithLife is not wrong--you are. Quit complaining."--and how they keep going at it to the point of derailing and diluting threads. (It's happened plenty of times in the past; no, I'm not going to provide further examples.
I can't speak for anyone but myself but your characterization implies a misunderstanding of what I have been trying to say which is:
- your complaint is valid
- I was the first to report it as a problem in beta
- be certain it is your #1 priority before pushing it as requiring immediate action
- it's fine it it is your #1 priority -- but it isn't mine
- recognize the available staff for coding doesn't change; prioritizing this pushes other bug fixes and feature development back.
In the beta forum there was an active discussion of this where Faithlife provided their rationale New store button in Logos 9.5 beta 1 - Faithlife Forums
Thanks for your feedback. But I'd like to ask that you give it some time and consider that it may be a significant help to other users (and, indirectly, for you, too, as we continue to grow and can invest in making Logos better for everyone).
Desktop in-app purchasing has increased 5x since we introduced the Store tab in the Library, which tells me that some users really appreciate the convenience and contextual nature of finding and buying a book without leaving the app. The ability to shop for individual resources by their metadata is something powerful that can't be replicated on Logos.com. It's a real service to users that more people need to know about and experience.
In-app purchasing in desktop applications may not be the norm (though we did it in Libronix two decades ago!). But it is the norm in modern mobile and web applications. There's a move toward eliminating the gap between apps and stores. It's hard to find a modern mobile app that doesn't have prominent, integrated in-app purchasing.
There was quite a kerfuffle about the changes we made to the About Logos panel a few years ago, but people have mostly gotten used to it and its proven to be an effect tool for driving upgrades. I expect the same outcome here.
By the end of beta testing, Phil was considering the customization of the tool bar option ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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However, having done the deed they need to provide an option for us to remove it. It does affect me (and others) as a priority and for me is important, gving me "reduced value". I know it is not important for you, but everyone has their own self-motivated priorities based on their own work flows. But, I reiterate, I too would love for them to prioritize fixes and suggestions from feedbear. But this now is a fix needed.
While I'm not enthusiastic about the final 7 words, this is exactly the kind of post I like to see -- a personal opinion strongly supported, no faux accusations, and a recognition that even everyone in the forums is a small slice of the Logos family of users.
I suspect we will get some form of customizing the tool bar which is a positive feature gain independent of the shopping cart issue. And, yes, I have expressed reservations regarding a customizable tool bar from the perspective of training. As a feature, I can envisions a group of users on devices where it could be very helpful; at the moment that group does not include me but I support their effort.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I don't want the shopping cart on my screen. I don't like it and I think it stinks.
It comes across as tacky and as over aggressive marketing to me (this is my opinion).
I buy things on a regular basis from Logos but it is at my choice when and where to shop.
I associate my Logos software with class and this tacky a** shopping cart on my private desk top and sacred work space doesn't fit in at all with the sacred work that I do within it.
This is my opinion (no intention of arguing or debating anyone).
Its my software that I have paid for and continue to pay for and I don't want a cart stuck in my face every time that I choose to study the word of God (which is the most sacred task that I can do).
Pastor Jesse Blevins
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I don't like the store icon,
I stopped buying resources, logos is sill not listening to its customers it won't make me buy more books ,
Always gone to Logos website to buy books ,
When I use logos I don't use the internet i have it switched off
The software runs faster, all the shop store does is fill your cache file full of junk ,the store book icons are stored somewhere
When I delete the web cache file I have to download videos and audio resources again ,let's have some house keeping to help to keep the website cache file free from the junk stuff
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quote user="Phil Gons (Faithlife)"]
Thanks for your feedback. But I'd like to ask that you give it some time and consider that it may be a significant help to other users (and, indirectly, for you, too, as we continue to grow and can invest in making Logos better for everyone).
Desktop in-app purchasing has increased 5x since we introduced the Store tab in the Library, which tells me that some users really appreciate the convenience and contextual nature of finding and buying a book without leaving the app.
Phil,
Please consider giving customers the option to either take it off the menu bar or to move it to a different location in the menu bar.
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We're considering a setting/customization option.
Perhaps the customization option could be to use the Logos icon on the top left of the UI (next to the home button). If users were permitted to embed a link to this icon either to the Logos.com home page OR Forum Home Page OR Store Front OR leave it blank. It may be a way of adding functionality without taking any more space on the bar.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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IMHO something is very weird to this "store" button..it is bringing you exactly to the same spot as the already existing library icon on the left of the toolbar does, except for that it now opens the store tab instead of the yours tab. Adding a second "library" button with the same functionality looks unnecessary redundant to me.
Weird..because it adds nothing. No convenience, no functionality. Just a lot of fuss in these forums. My advise to FL: remove it.
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OK, I just read the posts on the Beta forum (I am not using beta's) and I understand this redundancy was intentional. I understand the incentive to do so, but in that case I would remove the store tab from the library menu and place it as an icon next to the library icon and redesign it. Now it looks like a pram.
But even better: leave it as it was, without the extra icon. Because after all, it worked fine as it boosted your sales 5x which sounds significant to me...
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But even better: leave it as it was, without the extra icon. Because after all, it worked fine as it boosted your sales 5x which sounds significant to me...
I expect that the new icon will lead to a further sales boost, if it hasn't already.
It already has led to a boost in unhappy customers.
Letting us manually hide the Store button shouldn't hurt sales, but will reduce the number of unhappy customers.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Faithlife merged post into => Remove Store Button that now has 14 votes.
Caveat: new feedback currently needs separate login so please vote => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system that has 28 votes (#1 in Faithlife.com / ChMS feedback board).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Faithlife merged post into => Remove Store Button that now has 14 votes.
Thanks for letting me know. I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.
Ergo, please vote here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/allow-us-to-hide-the-new-store-button
You will notice that I made the new "Let us hide" suggestion more clearly different from the "Remove" request (which I personally do not support).
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.
Sorry about that. I wasn't reading carefully and they seemed like the same suggestion. Thanks for clarifying in your new suggestion that it's something different.
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I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.
Sorry about that. I wasn't reading carefully and they seemed like the same suggestion. Thanks for clarifying in your new suggestion that it's something different.
No worries! I could have been clearer the first time. All's well now. [Y]
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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25 votes (both feedbacks). 80 comments. And 13,000+ views. I'm thinking back to the old statistics course, and minimum significance. Does the '25' argue for doing it? Or don't bother ... they'll get used to it.
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Faithlife merged post into => Remove Store Button that now has 14 votes.
Thanks for letting me know. I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.
Ergo, please vote here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/allow-us-to-hide-the-new-store-button
You will notice that I made the new "Let us hide" suggestion more clearly different from the "Remove" request (which I personally do not support).
Voted & added comment:
Dreaming of "hiding" option so Cart icon does not show in the Toolbar when have nothing in my cart to buy. If have placed something into my shopping cart (inside the application OR using a web store), having Cart icon appear would be appreciated if clicking Cart shows what is in the shopping cart & can complete purchase.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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25 votes (both feedbacks). 80 comments. And 13,000+ views. I'm thinking back to the old statistics course, and minimum significance. Does the '25' argue for doing it? Or don't bother ... they'll get used to it.
It's a pain in the rear to remember a login for a feedback site, so most don't bother.
I sometimes suspect FL doesn't take this sampling bias into consideration when they use the feedback sites. It's not only real, it is hyper-significant.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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It's a pain in the rear to remember a login for a feedback site, so most don't bother.
I sometimes suspect FL doesn't take this sampling bias into consideration when they use the feedback sites. It's not only real, it is hyper-significant.
Agree. Personally, I don't want the shop-cart ... I think mobile did that for a while; now it's gone. But 'voting' to respect customers (and even accept bug reports) is not my cup of tea. A separate site and do-what-we-like privacy policy, and the sampling limitations suggest waiting for FL to discover 'customers' (vs 'users').
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It's a pain in the rear to remember a login for a feedback site, so most don't bother.
I sometimes suspect FL doesn't take this sampling bias into consideration when they use the feedback sites. It's not only real, it is hyper-significant.
Agree. Personally, I don't want the shop-cart ... I think mobile did that for a while; now it's gone. But 'voting' to respect customers (and even accept bug reports) is not my cup of tea. A separate site and do-what-we-like privacy policy, and the sampling limitations suggest waiting for FL to discover 'customers' (vs 'users').
Concur new Feedback needs a separate login so please vote => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system that has 28 votes with status of Planned.
UserVoice (with limit of 10 votes per user: up to 3 for one suggestion) had 1,000+ users voting for a single suggestion. Currently the top # votes in new Feedback for Logos Desktop App is 88, which is less than 9 % of UserVoice voting. Also number of users has increased from Wordsearch. For feedback, Faithlife SSO integration should be the highest priority.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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UserVoice (with limit of 10 votes per user: up to 3 for one suggestion) had 1,000+ users voting for a single suggestion. Currently the top # votes in new Feedback for Logos Desktop App is 88, which is less than 9 % of UserVoice voting. Also number of users has increased from Wordsearch. For feedback, Faithlife SSO integration should be the highest priority.
UserVoice did not have that integration, which I nonetheless believe would help feedback.faithlife.com gather more feedback.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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So, you're saying "If you don't like it you can leave?" They bought my alternative. They took over my library. I'm paying more per month for Bible Software than I do for water. While this might seem spiritual, I would hope it would give me a little say over the product.
To say that Logos needs the money. At $10,800 for their largest base package, and catering to every doctrine out there, if they aren't making money, there is a serious lack of priority.
There is a huge search bar that doesn't directly search the Bible, my custom icons become sub menus on my laptop (which isn't small). And the searches always remind me if I buy just one more book, I can have the info I'm looking for.
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Greetings Keith and welcome to the forums. I am sure that one of the volunteers here will be able to help and advise with any problems you have using the software or resources in your Logos installation.
Forum members are lucky that we get quite a lot of help from Faithlife staff from time to time, but the forums are principally volunteer serviced. For direct input to staff, it is better to phone Customer Service.
When one is replying to an earlier post it is helpful, either to quote a relevant section from the post, or start with the name of the poster.
Your Wordsearch Program and Library should keep working, as it was doing when the company closed, until such time as you make a change that breaks it. As far as I am aware, if you are content with that, or you are seriously discontented with Faithlife your use of Wordsearch can continue until such time as you find you need to evaluate the alternatives. At that point, which with care could be well into the future, your resources will be waiting for you in your Logos account should you choose to migrate to this platform.
I am intrigued as to how you are paying more for software than for water. Are you buying more resources than you would hardback books if the free software wasn't given to you? Or are you referring to the cost of a Connect subscription?
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Thank you for your response. I am use to a different forum format and need to learn to be a little more reserved with my actual thought process.
"I am intrigued as to how you are paying more for software than for water. Are you buying more resources than you would hardback books if the free software wasn't given to you? Or are you referring to the cost of a Connect subscription?"TL;DR$50 payment plan for $700 package$20 Faithlife connect -- to take advantage of free courses and some other things$20 MP Seminars to figure out how to work it.Currently I am paying $50 a month for ( I think the Gold package. I would have to look it up again.)
As far as I am aware, if you are content with that, or you are seriously discontented with Faithlife your use of Wordsearch can continue until such time as you find you need to evaluate the alternatives.
I purchased the bronze package shortly after the Wordsearch buyout (to take advantage of the discount) and Logos was kind enough to credit me an upgrade because of the purchase timing with ver 9.While somewhat disappointed with the buy out. I understood why it happened as WordSearch seemed to be stagnating, I was also grateful that I didn't lose any of the books and grateful also to see that many of them have been integrated into Logos.I also subscribed to Faith Life connect but, I really don't have much use for it but, was hoping to take advantage of some of the free courses. So, $70 a month total right now. My water bill with 2 very good drips going was running $60. I have also been paying MP Seminars for the training but, I haven't made use of that either. So, $90."When one is replying to an earlier post it is helpful, either to quote a relevant section from the post or start with the name of the poster."Missed the quote button.
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I have just upgraded my system to one with a smaller screen. This now really cuts into the space for shortcuts on the menu bar. We do need the ability to customize this.
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I have just upgraded my system to one with a smaller screen. This now really cuts into the space for shortcuts on the menu bar. We do need the ability to customize this.
Just a thought Sean
Did you dispose of your monitor from the old system? It might do good service as a second monitor on your new system.
Give it a try if you can the difference in the workflow is significant.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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