How to Find Every List of the 12 Tribes of Israel

reuben* simeon* levi* judah* issachar* zebulun* manasseh* ephraim* benjamin* dan* naphtali* gad* asher*

Factbook is a good starting point: https://ref.ly/logos4/Factbook?ref=bk.%25tribesOfIsrael.

You could run a Basic Search in your preferred Bible for the name of each:

That'll give you the following passages:

Genesis 46:8–25
Numbers 1:5–42
Numbers 2:3–33
Numbers 7:5–83
Numbers 26:5–62
Joshua 21:1–42
1 Chronicles 12:2–40
Ezekiel 48:1–35

David P. Moore

and then compare them and explain why some lists include or exclude certain names.

I'm wondering if you also want to add 1 Chronicles 27:16–22 to the list, as it omits the tribe of Asher. One can draw conclusions as to why his descendants are not represented here. Not sure if this is in the scope of your project, though.

Unfortunately, it'll probably take a little trial and error, since there's variation in the list (e.g., sometimes Joseph is listed; sometimes his sons). Perhaps you can pick a random six, work through the results, and then repeat that process a couple of times with a different set of six.

Genesis 35:23–26
Genesis 46:8–25
Genesis 49:2–27
Exodus 1:1–4
Numbers 1:5–42
Numbers 2:3–33
Numbers 7:5–83
Numbers 26:5–62
Deuteronomy 27:12–13
Joshua 21:1–42
1 Chronicles 2:1–2
1 Chronicles 12:2–40
1 Chronicles 27:16–22
Ezekiel 48:1–35
Revelation 7:4–8

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182656#Comment_1182656

Factbook is a good starting point: https://ref.ly/logos4/Factbook?ref=bk.%25tribesOfIsrael.

You could run a Basic Search in your preferred Bible for the name of each:

reuben* simeon* levi* judah* issachar* zebulun* manasseh* ephraim* benjamin* dan* naphtali* gad* asher*

I will definitely look into the Factbook. It has rarely been of use to me in the past, I never thought to look at it. Plus the search results are not well organized in the web app or mobile when searching all resources so it's hard to spot if it does show up in the search results.

The search you have listed here, is the "*" a shortcut for the search operator OR like the "," is for AND?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182668#Comment_1182668

The search you have listed here, is the "*" a shortcut for the search operator OR like the "," is for AND?

It's the wildcard character. So reuben* would match Reuben or Reubenites, for example.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182668#Comment_1182668

is the "*" a shortcut for the search operator OR like the "," is for AND?

No. It's a wildcard, so levi* will match Levi, Levite, Levites. I wasn't sure if any of these names was used in an adjectival form, so I did it just to be on the safe side. Not sure if it was necessary or not.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182668#Comment_1182668

So, it appears I'm confused. The wiki states that a space between words is the shortcut for AND, the "," is the shortcut for OR, and the "*" is the wildcard.

If I run the search using 6 names in quotes, "reuben simeon levi issachar zebulun naphtali" this includes every verse that has all six names in it (or, at least, should). But, because it Fuzzy Results it is not always the case.

But, I can use this 6 name search results and go through them quickly to see if they are indeed a list of the tribes.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182671#Comment_1182671

The wiki states that a space between words is the shortcut for AND, the "," is the shortcut for OR, and the "*" is the wildcard.

That's correct.

If I run the search using 6 names in quotes, "reuben simeon levi issachar zebulun naphtali" this includes every verse that has all six names in it (or, at least, should).

That's not correct. Wrapping the six words in quotation marks will find only those six words in that exact order with nothing intervening. You don't want a quote/phrase search. You want an AND search. So drop the quotes (and if you prefer, you can put AND between each term).

Also, you'll need to run a Basic search, which will look for the terms in a chapter, rather than a Bible search, which will require that the terms occur in the same verse.

The Fuzzy Results section may fill in a few gaps, but it won't be a reliable source for building an exhaustive list.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182671#Comment_1182671

If I run the search using 6 names in quotes, "reuben simeon levi issachar zebulun naphtali" this includes every verse that has all six names in it (or, at least, should).

No, if you run that search it will only find verses that contain all six of those names in that order. Quotes around a string mean that the string has to appear exactly like that. Fuzzy Results may differ. I'm ignoring that for the purposes of explanation.

If you use reuben* simeon* levi* issachar* zebulun* naphtali* (without the quotes), it will find all verses that contain ALL SIX of those names (in any order) or variations of them (the wildcard character). The spaces between the terms are interpreted as AND.

Does that clear it up?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182673#Comment_1182673

So drop the quotes or put AND between each term.

This isn't correct. You mean drop the quotes and optionally put AND between each term. If you keep the quotes and put AND between each term, it will not find anything, because it will be looking for this exact string. "reuben AND simeon AND levi AND issachar AND zebulun AND naphtali".

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182675#Comment_1182675

So drop the quotes or put AND between each term.

This isn't correct. You mean drop the quotes and optionally put AND between each term. If you keep the quotes and put AND between each term, it will not find anything, because it will be looking for this exact string. "reuben AND simeon AND levi AND issachar AND zebulun AND naphtali".

Yes. That's what I intended: (a) drop the quotes or (b) [drop the quotes and] put AND between each term. Thanks for calling out my ambiguity.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182673#Comment_1182673

If I run the search using 6 names in quotes, "reuben simeon levi issachar zebulun naphtali" this includes every verse that has all six names in it (or, at least, should).

Also, you'll need to run a Basic search, which will look for the terms in a chapter, rather than a Bible search, which will require that the terms occur in the same verse.

The Fuzzy Results section may fill in a few gaps, but it won't be a reliable source for building an exhaustive list.

Unfortunately I am limited by Logos web app on an android phone. It does not have "basic" search and selecting the NKJV individually doesn't change the results.

Also, running the search query with "quotes" vs no quotes does not seem to make a difference. It returns 70 results in the Fuzzy Search and zero results in the Exact Search. Since there appears to be no easy way to create a list of references in the web app I can't easily compare results, but the first three results on the screen are exactly the same references in both searches. I'm betting this is a glitch with the web app search (similar to the search glitch in the mobile app where I can select to search within a collection, but the results show that the search really just looked at all resources).

This was why I was hoping to find in my resources (or online) an already compiled list of references of every instance the 12 Tribes are listed in the Bible. I think searching + fuzzy search results should work if I play around with the names in each list. I wish I could generate a a passage list from the search results in the web app. Or I could find a laptop with a battery life I need at a price I could afford (18+ hours / <$300) that wouldn't break down on me within a month of getting it. ;-)

I'm surprised a list hasn't already been generated in a Bible dictionary/encyclopedia or some other resource (or even on the web).

DMB

I'm working on a project that is asking that I locate every passage in the Bible (OT/NT) that lists the 12 Tribes of Israel in every iteration and then compare them and explain why some lists include or exclude certain names. But I'm struggling to find a way in LOGOS to find every list of the 12 Tribes.

I'm assuming 'passage' means more than a single verse? If a single verse, there's very few.

But search strategy, when you're in the Logosian wilderness (web/mobile):

- Always select most almost-unique. Else you'll get the kitchen sink.

- Don't try to list everything; the least likely will do the job

- Avoid words/names with potential spelling variation (eg Isachar vs Issachar)

- Accept manual search results review; you learn more

- Enjoy unexpected results (name the donkey tribe, or the tribe whose tracable DNA was destroyed)

Answer Key (in reverse): rehsa and nemajneb

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182701#Comment_1182701

Found it. I knew someone somewhere in the last 2000 years had taken the time to collect all the lists of the twelve tribes and put it in one place. I just had to change my search criteria in google a little bit. Here is a website that has not only every reference where the names are listed, but also where the phrases "twelve tribes of israel" or "twelve tribes of jacob" are used. It also lists the names and the order of those names in each reference.

https://catholic-resources.org/Bible/History-12Tribes.htm

I also did another futile search for a windows 10 laptop. Closest I came was one that had a battery length of 12 hours (which means 6 or less) and its still over $700. It's too bad LOGOS doesn't work with the Samsung Galaxy Book Go. That's 18 hours of battery life and only $250 on sale. Until there is an affordable solution I will have to use Logos web/mobile apps with google on my android phone to accomplish what I could otherwise do just with the Logos desktop. But, despite the limitations (and annoyances) using these three + an external program to content search my ebooks (pdfs, epubs, mobis) it's pretty close to the desktop solution. Plus when pairing my android phone with the 50,000 MAH battery brick I can use my phone 24/7 for 5 days or more. I don't know of any laptop that can compete with that.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182726#Comment_1182726

https://catholic-resources.org/Bible/History-12Tribes.htm

Wow!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182726#Comment_1182726

I also did another futile search for a windows 10 laptop. Closest I came was one that had a battery length of 12 hours (which means 6 or less) and its still over $700.

Hi Steven

One thing that I have learnt in my long years is that top line price is an illusion. What counts is 'total cost of ownership'. This leads to some counter intuitive results.

It may actually, over the useful life of a product, be less costly to rent than to buy.

It may be more efficient to buy more expensive on credit that to buy 'cheap' up front.

Are you aware that Apple will sell you a laptop with reliable battery life on interest free credit?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182745#Comment_1182745

One thing that I have learnt in my long years is that top line price is an illusion. What counts is 'total cost of ownership'. This leads to some counter intuitive results.

It may be more efficient to buy more expensive on credit that to buy 'cheap' up front.

I've experienced this with cars. I purchased my current car for $7000 on a loan (though interest rate was so low it was basically no interest). It was well worth it to have a dependable car for my commute. Much better than the unreliable SUV I had previous that I bought for $1000.

But, my experience has not been the same for computers. I've paid $500 back in the 90's for a refurbished laptop only to pay that much and more to get it repaired several times. I then switched to the bargain laptops at Walmart for under $200. Those worked great for what I used them for but LOGOS would not run on them (requires updated windows and large harddrive since LOGOS refuses to store resources on flash drives).

I had a conversation with the IT guy at work one day and he basically made the same case as you did. He thought I should move away from the $200 laptops, pay $400-600 and get a quality computer that would last longer (typically my $200 laptops would last 2-3 years).

I did this, partly because I found a deal, and mostly so I could move into a better Bible program. I purchased a new laptop for $400 that had 8gb ram, 1TB hd (did not know I should have gotten an SSD drive for LOGOS) only to have it almost immediately start falling apart. The biggest issue I have with it is 1. the battery life is not the 14hrs advertised but only about 6-10. 2. The hinges are faulty and the screws keep coming out, so the screen tends to wobble. I can go in and tighten the screws, but then a few weeks later it starts to wobble again. 3. Within a month of buying the laptop, the bottom casing stripped a corner screw. Warrantees are a joke when it's the only computer you have/use every day. I bought a replacement bottom casing for $20 online. Within a few weeks, the screw on the other corner stripped.

This was not a refurbished laptop. It was new. Purchased at a major retailer online not Amazon. Now, given the prices for laptops has skyrocketed and I have no way of determining if even a new laptop will last more than a month or two, I cannot justify paying $700-$1000 for a machine that is a big ? out of the box.

This is why I made the move to a phone exclusively. 1. the upgrade to a new phone cost me $264. 2. It provides unlimited internet access wherever I am. 3. It does everything a laptop would do (except for the limitations with LOGOS and Scrivener, but both have been adequately replaced using 2 or more alternative programs - LOGOS takes 3 to do it).

This is why I got so excited when I came across the Samsung Galaxy Book Go. It has a large battery life (not 5-6 hrs but 10-18 hrs) and I thought at first would run all windows programs. I later found out this is not the case. It does not run LOGOS nor Scrivener at all. Complete waste. Glad I didn't purchase it.

Battery life is a big key feature of the phone when paired with the battery brick. I don't think I could find this with a laptop even in the $1500-$2000 price range (laptop that would run 24/7 for 5 days on a single battery brick charge). My existing laptop would only charge twice on the battery brick and that was only 1 day's worth of use (6-7 hours).

The greatest limitation with Android is LOGOS limitations and Scrivener limitations (though replacing this with WORD and simple notes seems to be pretty close). Even adding the Logos web app into the mix gets me much closer but no where near the equivalent of the desktop version.

Are you aware that Apple will sell you a laptop with reliable battery life on interest free credit?

What is reliable battery life equate to realistically? 6-7 hours? 10 hours? At this point it would really have to consistently hit the 18-24 hour mark and could be easily recharged in a few hours to make it worthwhile. And if they could match this, what kind of price tag would that bring? $1500? Doubtful. Probably $2500 - $3000 especially in the Apple world where prices are WAY over priced.

I will take a look, though, and see what kind of prices vs specs Apple has. I know people who have apple laptops that swear by them (who actually use them) and then there are many more who have an apple laptop sitting on their desk that like to say they have an apple product (but never actually use it for anything other than checking their mail).

Purchasing anything on credit makes me leary. In this economy, with all the witch hunts going on, there is no telling if I'll have a job tomorrow. I've been completely out of debt for several years now and I would hate to go back under the thumb, even if they are kind enough not to rob me with interest.

I will go look at Apple laptops and post back.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182783#Comment_1182783

Cursory check at Apple and several other vendors produced the following:

MacBook Air = 8gb Ram, 512gb SSD hd, 18hr battery life = $1249.

MacBook Air = 16gb Ram, 512gb SSD hd, 18hr battery life = $1399

Windows Alternative:

Levono Yoga = 12gb ram, 512gb SSD hr, 16hr battery life = $750 (on sale).

When comparing windows machines to apple, the windows machines always win on price for comparative specs. Even if there is an overall quality improvement with Apple (which I suspect is not entirely accurate), the simple cost is out of bounds given my budget. I recognize the concept that, in theory, if you pay more for a laptop it should last longer and thus the price / use would fall the longer you use it. But this is certainly not true (in my experience) between <$200 laptops and $400 laptops. In fact, despite its limitations the <$200 laptop outlasted the $400 laptop by at least 1.5 years if not more. This was before prices on windows laptops jumped in 2020-2021, and I'm sure it did not jump out of a conscious decision by manufacturers to improve the quality of their products. Now the $400 laptop is basically priced at $800, but you still get the poor quality that's worse than the <$200 laptop.

I can't touch Apple products since their entry laptop for what I need is 3 months of my income. Leveraging it on my future time to get a product today is sketchy at best. I really have no desire to be a slave to any lender.

I simply have to wait until they come out with a laptop product that fits my budget and can actually do what I need (basically run LOGOS desktop) OR resign myself to the reality that the laptop technology space has move beyond my budget and is simply no longer affordable to me. Eventually, Android will be around long enough that products will mature. Again, I have to sit on my hands and patiently wait. I thought the Samsung Galaxy Book Go would bridge the gap, but unfortunately it is a kind of bait and switch. A windows machine that won't run windows software.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182788#Comment_1182788

Hi Steven,

Have you checked Office Depot - I usually find a nice bargain there on laptops.

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/7961437/ASUS-VivoBook-15-F513-Laptop-156/

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/5507988/Lenovo-IdeaPad-3-Laptop-156-Screen/

Both of those are currently on Sale for $500 and should run Logos 9 without issue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182791#Comment_1182791

Hi Steven,

Have you checked Office Depot - I usually find a nice bargain there on laptops.

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/7961437/ASUS-VivoBook-15-F513-Laptop-156/

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/5507988/Lenovo-IdeaPad-3-Laptop-156-Screen/

Both of those are currently on Sale for $500 and should run Logos 9 without issue.

Yes. Unfortunately, these machines are 1. too large, I use between 13 in and 14 in. Larger than this and the battery life suffers to power the screen, plus they tend to be too large to easily carry in a backpack when I head out into the woods (I spend 2-5 days each week in remote places year around and carry everything in my kayak or backpack so the smaller the better). 2. These laptops mentioned above either have 16gb ram or 512gb hd but not both. I would need both since Logos is quite demanding on resources (and doesn't seem to run well on a regular hard drive for some reason, apparently needs an ssd).

When I plug these criteria into the filters at Office Depot (or BestBuy), the cheapest machine is $750. Prices have risen since I purchased my last laptop (the one falling apart), either because of COVID, or inflation, or a shortage of components, or all of the above.

If I were to play fair, I would reduce the spec requirements to the Samsung Galaxy Book Go since I would buy that machine in a heartbeat if it would just run LOGOS and Scrivener. That produces laptops with 4gb ram, 128gb ssd hd with a price of $350. But I would have to increase the flash storage since there's no way 128gb is going to store windows+Logos+scrivener files+videos+books, etc. Plus, I already tried this with my current laptop that was $400 and it's pretty unreliable at this point.

Bottom line, I'm really satisfied with my phone solution. The bluetooth keyboard, headphones + external battery brick + existing external drives for storage works pretty well. Better than I could have imagined. It does have it's drawbacks (lack of features in Logos, etc), but those will hopefully be removed as they/if they develop the mobile app in the future. And any problems I might have with the app is not an actual problem but simply an inconvenience. I could be back studying from paper print commentaries and concordance stored in a duffel back on wheels. I carry probably triple what I could fit in that duffel bag in my tiny phone that I slip into my pocket and carry with me when I'm out in the woods blazing trails. There's nothing quite so surreal than to be miles from civilization and be able to sit down on a log, pull out my phone, and have a research library at my fingertips. ;-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1182788#Comment_1182788

It seems to me Steven that what you have learnt by life experience is...

1. Manufacturers cannot produce reliable and robust computers in the $200 - $400 dollar range. Hence the total cost of ownership of these machines over say an eight year period is extremely high and probably unquantifiable.

2. The total cost of ownership of the $1400 MacBook Air (which comes with an office suit included) mentioned in your email over an eight year period is about $175 per year.

3. The total cost of ownership of the Levnono mentioned above depends on your estimation of its longevity and the cost of ancillary software required to make it productive.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183027#Comment_1183027

2. The total cost of ownership of the $1400 MacBook Air (which comes with an office suit included) mentioned in your email over an eight year period is about $175 per year.

So you're saying that the average length that someone keeps and uses a MacBook Air is a minimum of 8 years? I find that really hard to believe. My $200 laptops lasted typically 2 years.

This really just seems like a whole lot of gambling. First I was told moving out of the $200 range would fix the issue. Now I'm being told moving out of the $400 range will fix the issue. What's next? Moving out of the $1400 range? I don't think so. It's a disappointing reality that manufactures are okay with producing inconsistent garbage. I think I would rather just settle for what I have as it works okay, keep my $1400 and hope one day LOGOS will invest in the mobile app. I don't really think this will happen until laptops are gone and everyone is using their phones for their personal computing. But, until then, my phone works satisfactory (not great) and I'm $1400 richer.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183038#Comment_1183038

I'm thinking of approaching this a little differently. I've been looking on youtube at reviews of the MacBook Air. One of them mentioned that the new M1X when it comes out will boast 30 hour battery life! That's kind of nutz. ;-)

But, I'm thinking of running a test.

1. My current laptop is 8gb ram 1tb hd (standard not ssd).

2. I can get a MacBook Air 8gb ram 256gb hd ssd for $950 at an online retailer. I would purchase here because they offer a 2 month return policy for any reason (unlike Apple's ridiculous 14 day return policy).

3. I purchase this machine and test it out for the full 2 months. If I'm not satisfied, I simply return it and get my money back (minus return shipping). If I am blown away I get a great new laptop for less than $1000.

Before I pull the trigger on this, though, I would like to ask the following questions:

1. How does LOGOS compare on Mac vs Windows machines? I was not aware that windows machines needed to have an SSD drive for LOGOS to run efficiently. Would LOGOS run on a MacBook Air with 8gb Ram and a 256 gb HD?

2. Are there any feature limitations for LOGOS on Macs? Any additional features not available on Windows app?

3. I have several external drives that I used with my regular windows machine and also use with my android phone. They range from 500gb to 4tb. Will these work on a macbook in their existing format?

4. How accurate is the battery life while running LOGOS and say Scrivener? Really clocks in at 18 hours or like windows machines you have to shave off 4-5 hours and 18 really means 13 hours?

5. Also does anyone know how long a MacBook Air takes to charge? Also will it work with my Crave 50,000 MaH power brick?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183038#Comment_1183038

So you're saying that the average length that someone keeps and uses a MacBook Air is a minimum of 8 years?

No. What I am saying is that you need to decide how long you want to run your 'Total Cost of Ownership' over. Those who like to keep their computers for a long time (and who are by definition not power users) will find an eight year old Mac is usable but coming to the end of its life.

I change computers often but tend to hand them down through family and colleagues. I often run into my old machines and I know the my plastic covered MacBook only retired last year. (somebody else can tell you how ancient that was).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183046#Comment_1183046

1. How does LOGOS compare on Mac vs Windows machines?

As I understand it - negligible depending on the processor and hard disc.

Would LOGOS run on a MacBook Air with 8gb Ram and a 256 gb HD?

Yes but it really depends on the size of your library.

2. Are there any feature limitations for LOGOS on Macs? Any additional features not available on Windows app?

Not significant.

I have several external drives that I used with my regular windows machine and also use with my android phone. They range from 500gb to 4tb. Will these work on a macbook in their existing format?

It depends on their connections. You may have to invest in a 'hub' as the outlets on an air are very limited.

4. How accurate is the battery life while running LOGOS and say Scrivener? Really clocks in at 18 hours or like windows machines you have to shave off 4-5 hours and 18 really means 13 hours?

Running Logos and a word processor. The estimates are conservative. Watching video they are accurate. Streaming to YouTube while running Ecamm Live and Proclaim and driving 6 HD monitors I find that I do need to shave 4-5 hours off.

Also does anyone know how long a MacBook Air takes to charge?

They tend to be very fast but the first 20% and the last 20% are exponentially slower. I really depends on the power of the charger.

Also will it work with my Crave 50,000 MaH power brick?

I would think that connections would be the main concern.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183112#Comment_1183112

Would LOGOS run on a MacBook Air with 8gb Ram and a 256 gb HD?

Yes but it really depends on the size of your library.

A one T SSD now cost under $200. So go for a BIG drive.

Question: on a Mac can ALL programs / apps run on a disk other than the boot drive? If not that 256 will fill up fast.

Am a 'PC person' and found that many many PC programs REQUIRE running from the C drive [The boot drive]? Am in the process of upgrading to a 1T SSD from a 128 G one.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183135#Comment_1183135

Question: on a Mac can ALL programs / apps run on a disk other than the boot drive? If not that 256 will fill up fast

Hmm! not as fast as one might suppose. I have a a half full 251Gb SSD on my MacMini. Admittedly I only download Logos resources as I need them but once they are downloaded they stay on this machine. I do make extensive use of iCloud Drive and DropBox for files because I want them available on both my DeskTop, Laptop, iPad and Church Computer.

I have never tried running 'programmes' from anything other than the boot drive as I find the space that actual programmes take up is negligible. 13Gb on my drive at the moment.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183135#Comment_1183135

Would LOGOS run on a MacBook Air with 8gb Ram and a 256 gb HD?

Yes but it really depends on the size of your library.

A one T SSD now cost under $200. So go for a BIG drive.

Question: on a Mac can ALL programs / apps run on a disk other than the boot drive? If not that 256 will fill up fast.

Am a 'PC person' and found that many many PC programs REQUIRE running from the C drive [The boot drive]? Am in the process of upgrading to a 1T SSD from a 128 G one.

I went with a 1TB hard drive on my windows machine and found I did not need remotely that much space. 512gb would be ample and 256gb would work when paired with proper use of external drives. I noticed, though, there are no flash card slots in a MacBook Air, which I find rather peculiar. I would have to invest in a USB-C snub flash drive and take up one of the only 2 C ports on the machine. If, that is, more space was needed at all. I'm slowly converting all of my large external drives (1TB and up) over to a series of 500gb flash drives that work in USB A or C, but one that sits flush (little sticks out the side of the laptop) would be useful to keeps video lectures, tv shows, movies, books, etc on the main computer when I'm away from the internet (typically 4-5 days at a time). This was the setup I used on my >$200 Acer computers when I only had 32gb of hard drive space. I would add a 60gb card and it would just stay plugged into the system all the time. Worked great. Unfortuantely, there was zero room for LOGOS.

As to the question of Mac running programs on drives other than the boot drive, I do not have first hand knowledge of this, but I would assume not since the Windows version does not allow this (which I think is a terrible oversight). Logos should allow the storage of at least resources on separate drives or partitions if not the entire program itself. TheWord Bible Software allows three options 1. store everything on the hard drive 2. store the program on the hard drive while storing all resources wherever else you need to 3. install everything on a flash drive at it can operate from computer to computer just by plugging it in. This is a free program guys and its running circles around LOGOS in many areas. Get it together already!

As to the 256gb hard drive filling up fast, I would agree if this was not paired in some way with a backup system. I've found online backups to be costly (though external drives are not cheap) and prone to problems (inadvertently shutting down) and difficult to deal with (slow to upload/download, etc). But, if the 256gb is only used for the OS, the regular programs, and the LOGOS resources, then it should remain pretty stable. I do have a subset of videos, audios, and books that I have in that that I'm either currently using or planning to use in the near future with swaps to the external drive periodically. With all this on my acer 1tb hd I never used more than 350tb at any given point and that was being very lazy about moving stuff I was no longer using to the backup drives.

I think the 128gb would be ill advised for my current application.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183135#Comment_1183135

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Despite having a workable plan in place I'm still quite hesitant at spending even $900 for a laptop. I think I'm going to wait until Black Friday sales happen and see if I can't get that overall price down significantly. I am very interested in the battery life and the software availability of the macbook air. The price is really the limitation at this point. The only other options are 1. purchase a renewed macbook air for half price and hope for the best (had bad experience with this in the past on pcs) 2. just stick with my phone setup and hope there is either a revolution on laptop prices or a new, superior bible software is developed for android in the future. ;-)

Hopefully there will be some good sales coming up next month.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183146#Comment_1183146

Just for the sake of closure on this thread, here's what I ended up doing:

1. Instead of taking a $1000 risk and buying a MacBook Air in hopes it will solve the problems I have listed above, I picked up on what Mike said in one of his responses, "I change computers often but tend to hand them down through family and colleagues. I often run into my old machines and I know the my plastic covered MacBook only retired last year." It dawned on me that if Mike's "slightly used" Macs were still running years later, I could take advantage of the concept that Macs last for many years (even though I don't know any Mac users personally). So I went looking and found refurbished Macs online for $300-$400. I decided this would be a much better risk than $1000+ given that I've never used Macs before (besides a short-lived flirtation in high school) so I ordered a MacBook Air 2015 with 8gb Ram and 512gb SSD HD. It is an older model that still has USB-A and the magnetic charger and the SD card reader (and now I'm wondering if my 1TB cards will work on this machine (interesting)? It was $338. I know it will soon (if not already) fall out of "status" and support. But I looking to test the feasibility more than anything.

2. I have since received this laptop a few days ago and have been testing it to see if a switch to MacBooks might solve my issues. Here are my results thus far:

a. Laptop is ridiculously lightweight. The screen is fine (I've read complaints online but I don't see wha they're complaining about). It came in (so far) working order. A few scratches but other than that it has worked fine.

b. The battery is (expectantly) an issue. It will hold about 4 hours of runtime. But, I've been reading and watching videos online and there are aftermarket Macbook replacement batteries that I can install myself and they only cost about $40 which (finger's crossed) would get me back up to the 10-12 hour use. I could theoretically buy the necessary connectors to use the MacBook with my Crave battery Brick, which would add approximately 2 charging cycles which would get me to (theoretically to the 12) but the replacement battery is about the same price and then possibly adding the Crave in addition would put me at 20 hours per cycle (give or take) and then I'm still at around $400 all in (much better than $1000). The only problem with this is it takes 3+ hours to charge the Crave (4+ if charging with my little generator). This would mean running my generator 4+ hours at least 3 times per week, which is not undoable, but is a far cry from once a week charging just my phone (give and take/pros and cons with everything).

c. I loaded Scrivener, Logos, and a Elmedia Player (Windows Potplayer replacement) and a few other odds and ends. Logos (which is really the whole reason for this fiasco in the first place because the mobile app really is not very functional at this point and the web app is just that, dependent on the web) installed perfectly and is INCREDIBLY fast. I mean lightning fast compared to my windows machine with the non-SSD hard drive. The command box is snappy (took so long on the windows version that I never used it), searches and guide results are really fast. Using the arrows to move between resources in a tab is unbelievably fast compared.

d. I was able to transfer over my personal books but not sure what happened, only about half of them seem to work. This is not a really big deal since most of these were imported from existing pdfs and ebooks that I used during my dissertation research. It is quite possible I will scrap all of them (delete all PBs) and reinstall only the ones that I will use for repeated, long-term lookup (systematic theologies mostly).

e. I am having some difficulty with the indexer now. It was first hung up on 0%. I tried the solutions listed in the forum and eventually had to run rebuild index from the command box. This got me passed 0% but it now gets hung up on 70%-ish. I also seems to be having difficulty downloading the UBS Manuals but this could just be a terrible connection mid day at work (I had no problem downloading the Pulpit Commentaries at home). Not sure what the ultimate solution will be on the indexing. It could be the brute transfer of the PBs that is causing the problem or something else with the initial install. If I keep having problems I may end up having to do logs and talk to tech support at Logos. It may be that there is just a log jam since there are about 250+ titles to index on the personal books. I imagine those are harder to do than Logos purchased books. They did index rather quickly on the windows machine, so not sure what the issue actually is (other than the means by which they were transferred over).

f. Scrivener also seems to run great on the Mac machine compared to windows. Scrivener is native to Mac so I expect it will be a more mature program than the windows version. Unfortunately I will have to spend another $50 for the license since the windows one is not transferable. But that's why we have money, right? Rather spend it on Bible related stuff than dirt bikes or baseball cards. ;-) I will say the transfer of Scrivener projects was a nightmare. The files kept deleting for some reason off of my thumb drive. Then I discovered Apple is afraid of the end user so they "protect" the files (give me a break). Still didn't work. Then I switched USB thumb drives and it transferred over with no problem. I also ran into the whole "you have to eject" the usb drive every time or apple will corrupt the drive (really?). Windows is truly plug and play. Mac apparently not so much. Now my large external drive is unreadable by the Macbook and only reformatting will fix it? I'm not reformatting. It's 4TBs worth of stuff. My phone still can read the files and so can the windows laptop so it's definitely an artificial Mac thing. I'm in the process of converting my backup drives to smaller 500gb flash drives anyway so that process will take awhile.

g. Overall, Mac takes getting used to (as a lifelong windows user) but there are certainly some strong positives. The price, even with the replacement battery purchase is well worth the benefits. The unit does seem quite sturdy and well built. The OS is not quite as good (translated familiar) as Windows. I would say its in-between windows and android (android is not very good for getting around or having multiple programs open at the same time - despite split screen). It is easy to get used to and I've learned to get around rather quickly in this new Mac OS environment. Also a BIG selling point is I can use it without an Apple ID which I DO NOT WANT. I'm restricted to apps that can be downloaded outside of the apple store, but I"m okay with that. So far everything has an external download source (except for 7zip). I also could not find a way to unzip .zip files at all. In theory I'm supposed to be able to just double click and do it natively in the Mac OS but it doesn't work. Say the zip file is not supported format and I can't find a third party app for zip files that can be downloaded successfully to the machine. Mac rejected 7zip. Didn't even give me an option to open it anyway. Go figure. No reason to live in fear, Apple. Really. It'll be okay.

Only time will tell if this will end up being a good (reliable) machine and won't fall apart within 2 months like my new $400 windows machine did. I never dreamed windows machine prices and sliding sub-par quality would climb so high that it would push me into the Mac environment. But these are the times we're living in. I've even been able to use Logos layouts to create a mini version of logos that fits on one side of the screen and has everything I need at my finger tips while I still have room for a browser on the other side + scrivener. No flipping back and forth (which is one thing I hated about Android). I tried this in Windows and it wouldn't work. I'm also really glad Scrivener is back in my life (Simplenote is a poor man's replacement) as well as the desktop Logos. One day they will hopefully put some time and effort into the android logos and then I can make the jump away from Mac and windows for good. I don't see that happening any time soon, though.

So far, this has been worth the experiment and the $300 risk. We will see if it lasts the year.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183983#Comment_1183983

Afternote: I was able to fix the stalled downloading by renaming the Download folder (as per instructions on the forum) and this worked great. UBS is now completely downloaded. Still no solution yet on the indexing hang though. Back to 0% again. ;-)

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183145#Comment_1183145

Note to Steven Veach : There are Usb C Hubs that expand the number of Usb C slots. Saw one for $40 that expanded 7 for one.

On my PC I had the 128 Gig C drive cloned and a 1 T drive installed. (moved a 'lot' of stuff off the hard drive to the SSD)

I have two multi T drives for backup but still now have two 1 T Drives and both half full.

Next project (after I do some more checking the new drive) is to Delete Logos (now on the hard drive) and reinstall it on the SSD C: drive.

(last time I did that I rebuilt all of my PBB resources to ensure that I had all of the source files as I was setting up a new PC but had access to the hard drive of the old machine. Will use scan this time as I regularly back up my PBB files, and everything else, to one of the external multi T drives.)

[I plan to let the indexing run over night if it needs that long: 9000 resources.]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183996#Comment_1183996

Note to Steven Veach : There are Usb C Hubs that expand the number of Usb C slots. Saw one for $40 that expanded 7 for one.

On my PC I had the 128 Gig C drive cloned and a 1 T drive installed. (moved a 'lot' of stuff off the hard drive to the SSD)

I have two multi T drives for backup but still now have two 1 T Drives and both half full.

Next project (after I do some more checking the new drive) is to Delete Logos (now on the hard drive) and reinstall it on the SSD C: drive.

(last time I did that I rebuilt all of my PBB resources to ensure that I had all of the source files as I was setting up a new PC but had access to the hard drive of the old machine. Will use scan this time as I regularly back up my PBB files, and everything else, to one of the external multi T drives.)

[I plan to let the indexing run over night if it needs that long: 9000 resources.]

Yeah, luckily my MacBook was old enough it does not have the USB C slots. It has 2 USB As and one card reader. Having just 3 USB C slots will be a problem down the road when/if I ever update to a new MacBook Air in the future. I think it's a little ridiculous they did this. No reason the end user should have to buy an additional hub to make a $1000 + laptop function correctly.

I've had less than desirable results over the years with my large capacity external drives. My latest was an 8TB drive that died within one year. Just stopped working one day. That's 2 in about 6 years. This is and portability (and not needing external power source) are the reasons I'm slowly switching my backup system from large capacity externals to 500 gb flash thumb drives. It will end up about the same price and I can do it over time, slowly phasing out the larger drives (as they die off).

I'm wondering if the indexing is snagged or just taking a long time because of the number of PBs I have. I have nowhere near 9000! ;-) All in I have about 2000 resources (regular and PB). Indexing did not take a long time but then again I was importing PB over several weeks (rather than all in one day). This could very well be the difference. We'll see. There's a good chance I will start from scratch to build a more focused PB collection anyway. Will have to wait and see.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183999#Comment_1183999

There's a good chance I will start from scratch to build a more focused PB collection anyway. Will have to wait and see.

Restarting from scratch is always a good idea. Assuming that we learned from the mistaske we made in the past. [Spelling error intentional! [:D]]