Pastor Michael,
I hear what you are saying in the problem you are describing. What's happening is a direct reflection of the 9.9 release. From the release notes, notice the one I've put in bold...
What we were finding is that many of our users were frustrated with the experience of being in a bulleted list and then not wanting to have to insert a scripture. Before we even implemented the scripture insertion reminders, bulleted lists would allow a user to click Enter and it wouldn't insert the scripture block. Therefore, we were working towards getting it back towards that same experience.
What you're describing though is wanting that feature to be able to be within a bulleted list though it sounds like. While I don't have an immediate solution for you to try to accomplish exactly what you're wanting to do, I would recommend the keyboard shortcut for the bulleted list. Perhaps that might make things a little bit quicker for you to accomplish the turning on/turning off function.
Thanks for pointing this out though. It's possible in the future we can find a "happy medium" to this so that the users have more options when it comes to bulleted lists.
What we were finding is that many of our users were frustrated with the experience of being in a bulleted list and then not wanting to have to insert a scripture.
If I am understanding you, users were frustrated when they were in a bullet list and then they did not want to insert a scripture passage? If I am understanding you correctly, that makes no sense to me. It you do not want a Scripture verse to appear when you are in a bullet list, then just don't type a Scripture passage. What I am frustrated at is when I am in a bullet list and I type a Scripture reference, it is because I want a Scripture reference there. I do not understand why users would get frustrated at this; why would someone type a Scripture reference if they did not want a scripture reference? I guess I am not understanding you. And the keyboard shortcut for MAC that the sermon Editor gives is incorrect. If you hover over the bullet the pop up box says that the command is: Up arrow/command/8, but it is command/shift/8. And it does not work, on either MAC or windows, on the 8 on the number pad, you have to user the one below the function keys.
I 100% agree with Pastor Huffman. I loved the automatic ability to insert scripture by either tab or CR. If I didn't want the reference to expand then I just put a "." after the reference and the feature didn't fill in the text. Can we have the feature as a setting? I would love to have it in notes too for that matter. Losing this is a big dissatisfier. Please. Pretty please.
Might I suggest that what has happened it that some folk are using the Sermon Editor for other purposes than preaching a sermon.
Those complaining about the missing feature are correct in that, if one is actually preaching, then access to the actual text is important; and a list of bible references pretty useless.
The developers need to focus on making the Sermon Editor the best Sermon facility it can be.
If handouts, lesson plans, bulletins etc need their own Editors then that is a different matter.
I agree Pastor Luke, Logos could and probably SHOULD HAVE NOT taken it away, but made it as an option that can be turned off/on. Thanks for that feedback. Brother.
Might I suggest that what has happened it that some folk are using the Sermon Editor for other purposes than preaching a sermon. Those complaining about the missing feature are correct in that, if one is actually preaching, then access to the actual text is important; and a list of bible references pretty useless. The developers need to focus on making the Sermon Editor the best Sermon facility it can be. If handouts, lesson plans, bulletins etc need their own Editors then that is a different matter.
Well put Mike. Logos needs to focus on the making the feature optimal for the ones that are using it for the purposes it which it was created. Not to cater to a, perhaps, large group of people, but people that are complaining about a feature that is perhaps being used for incorrect purposes...Logos does not need to cater to that voice. As Mike said, they needs to optimize the feature for those that are using it for the intended purposes. I cannot imagine a preacher that is using the Sermon Editor for its intended purpose that would have an issue with the automatic formatting of the verses by just typing the reference without having to exit of out the bullet point feature. Bad move Logos.
With true sincerity, I really appreciate you all chiming in with your thoughts on this. Discussions are already taking place this morning on the best way to go about providing users the option of how they want to handle these type situations when in a list.
As a bit of a background, when deciding to implement that behavior in lists for 9.9, we did so because that is how it acted in versions prior to 9.7. Then, upon releasing 9.7, that behavior changed and it did not sit well with many of our users. With the inclusion of the scripture reminders, some of the behavior changed with how lists were handled so we went in and fixed it to match the behavior of the pre-9.7 versions.
However, I just want you all to know that your voice has been heard and this will be something our team prioritizes to be resolved.
Just as a sneak preview into one of our initial thoughts, we're looking at the possibility of adding an arrow icon as seen below in the screenshot.
This view of showing three options would appear when within normal parts of building a sermon so that a user could move to the next line without having to insert any additional characters or to choose from the tab/enter options.
But, when a user is in a "Bulleted List Item" or "Numbered List Item" state, the only options that would appear would be the "Insert inline" and arrow icon. In this state while in a list, clicking "Enter" wouldn't insert a block below but would move to the next bullet or number.
Since you all specifically aren't currently pleased with how 9.9 handles this situation, I'd be curious on your thoughts about that potential fix. Would that resolve the current problem you face?
Yes, the ability to insert biblical references should be a setting or a separate key stroke (shift+enter/shift+tab). To just remove the feature was a bad call and has taken hours out of this weeks sermon prep to try to resolve.
Available Now
Build your biblical library with a new trusted commentary or resource every month. Yours to keep forever.
