Attn: Kyle. book sold in the logos 9 base packages, still not available
hello all,
Comentario Geográfico Lexham de Hechos hasta Apocalipsis, the Lexham Geographic Commentary, Acts to Revelation, is still not available for users.
It is January 2022. Kyle, could you let us know when this might be made available?
there have been several complaints about this from Spanish speaking users, but no comment from faithlife. Some are saying, perhaps sarcastically, that we may have to wait until Logos 10 is released to see it. Is that going to happen?
Here’s the thread- https://community.logos.com/forums/t/201746.aspx
Blessings,
WR82
Comments
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Yes, please! The Lexham Geographic Commentary Acts-Revelation Spanish version was included in a Base Package and yet it hasn’t been delivered yet nor any updates (at least out of curtesy) have been given to users that “own” it and are waiting for its release.
Thanks!
DAL
Ps. This is not a complaint but we just need to find out the progress on a resource we’ve already paid for; just an update is fine even if the update said, “sorry guys, we still haven’t gotten around to translate this resource.”
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I'm following up with the Spanish team on this. As far as I know its still being translated from English into Spanish. I'll try to get a better estimate on the timeline.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
I'm following up with the Spanish team on this. As far as I know its still being translated from English into Spanish. I'll try to get a better estimate on the timeline.
I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages. It's one thing to include a book that has been written but not yet produced as a Logos Edition, especially if it's already in production. It's a totally different thing to include books that don't yet exist. If you're not done translating it into Spanish, then the Spanish version doesn't actually yet exist.
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Kiyah said:
I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages.
Fair. I think that sometimes resources have been included in Base Packages over the years at least in part in order to finance their production.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:Kiyah said:
I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages.
Fair. I think that sometimes resources have been included in Base Packages over the years at least in part in order to finance their production.
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing. What publishing company makes readers buy a book before the author has finished (or even started) writing it?
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Kiyah said:
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing.
Writing it and translating it are two different things.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:Kiyah said:
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing.
Writing it and translating it are two different things.
Yes, but my point is that the Spanish edition does not exist in any format, not even in a Word document on someone's computer, because they're not finished translating it. The Spanish words to be contained within the book are not complete, so I treat that as it not being written. And Logos has sold books that haven't yet been written in the past, ask the people who prepaid for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary series.
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Gracias a WR82 y DAL por darle seguimiento a este tema aquí.
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Kiyah said:SineNomine said:Kiyah said:
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing.
Writing it and translating it are two different things.
Yes, but my point is that the Spanish edition does not exist in any format, not even in a Word document on someone's computer, because they're not finished translating it. The Spanish words to be contained within the book are not complete, so I treat that as it not being written. And Logos has sold books that haven't yet been written in the past, ask the people who prepaid for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary series.
My point was that the book in question has indeed been written, but not translated (as far as we know). When you are writing a book, you find out exactly what is going to be in the book only when the book is complete. When you are translating a book, you already have the book; you know how long the book is, what it is about, what pictures and diagrams it contains, etc. In other words, you can make a much, much more accurate estimation of how long it will take to translate a book that has already been written than you can make regarding how long it will take to write a book that has not yet been written.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I apologize for the delay in producing this resource, and for over-estimating what we'd be able to produce on time for Logos 9. We've been backed up with a number of Logos 9 resources that haven't yet been delivered, including this one, and we're trying to get them shipped as soon as we can. At this point, my best estimate is that this will get shipped some time in March.
Just to be clear, the hold-up has not been the translation, but the specialized process we use for generating resources in the Geographic Commentary series. The poor estimation of the work required along with the other tasks we signed up for rests with me.
(I'll also note that, sadly, I'm not a Spanish speaker, so not able to easily interact on those threads directly. But the Spanish team has been diligently asking about this resource and its timeline on behalf of their customers.)
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Kiyah said:
I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages.
Smilingly disagree. Over the years, they've put uncreated resources in packages, sold them, and then had to produce them (sound of nails on the blackboard). Absent the sale, they'd just quietly remove what was also a prepub. There's several OL's like that.
Ok, back to Sean's apology.
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Sean, thank you for answering with an explanation and a timeline. That is wonderful customer service, and I, as a customer, appreciate it.
This answer, though helpful, is still in English. It would go a long way toward easing some frustrations among Spanish users if you, as a Faithlife employee could collaborate with a Faithlife employee in the Spanish department to provide an official answer in Spanish In the Spanish forum.
The book, and I am thankful again for this answer about it, is not the main issue. The issue is a lack of responsiveness in the Spanish forums when things are going poorly. My aim in all of this is to help Spanish speakers have a forum like we have in English, with folks from Faithlife chiming in from time to time. If this could be a part of y’all’s circle of care and influence going forward, that would really be great.
Products are at times delivered without full functionality in Spanish (mobile ed courses that don’t show up in the courses tool, as an example) but there isn’t the same mechanism for feedback and community based, solution focused dialogue (someone paying attention to the forums) for Spanish speakers. I see the differences because I use Logos in English and in Spanish. Forum posts in English get answers. Posts in Spanish generally haven’t.
I thought a long time about adding my comments about the wider issue here. Sean, I want to apologize for not just saying thank you… If there weren’t an ongoing pattern, I would be wrong to say more than “thanks”. I am not always right, and I may be in error in feeling grateful as well as still being focused on helping the Spanish team see that users would like more help from them in the forums.
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DMB said:
Kiyah said:I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages.
Smilingly disagree. Over the years, they've put uncreated resources in packages, sold them, and then had to produce them (sound of nails on the blackboard). Absent the sale, they'd just quietly remove what was also a prepub. There's several OL's like that.
Ok, back to Sean's apology.
Hey, let’s reward Sean’s answer with a thank you. 😀
Customer service is not a fun job sometimes, and Sean is doing it well.
it does us no good as customers to always complain, even when someone does something right.
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WR82 said:
This answer, though helpful, is still in English. It would go a long way toward easing some frustrations among Spanish users if you, as a Faithlife employee could collaborate with a Faithlife employee in the Spanish department to provide an official answer in Spanish In the Spanish forum.
The book, and I am thankful again for this answer about it, is not the main issue. The issue is a lack of responsiveness in the Spanish forums when things are going poorly. My aim in all of this is to help Spanish speakers have a forum like we have in English, with folks from Faithlife chiming in from time to time. If this could be a part of y’all’s circle of care and influence going forward, that would really be great.
Products are at times delivered without full functionality in Spanish (mobile ed courses that don’t show up in the courses tool, as an example) but there isn’t the same mechanism for feedback and community based, solution focused dialogue (someone paying attention to the forums) for Spanish speakers. I see the differences because I use Logos in English and in Spanish. Forum posts in English get answers. Posts in Spanish generally haven’t.
In other words, if I understand you correctly, it doesn't really matter to you and other Spanish-using customers what internal questions Spanish-using customer service reps ask, or how often they ask them. Since those reps don't post on the Faithlife Forums, from the customer's perspective, they haven't done anything at all.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Thanks for that response: I'll follow up with the Spanish department to see if they want to respond more appropriately in the Spanish language.
WR82 said:My aim in all of this is to help Spanish speakers have a forum like we have in English, with folks from Faithlife chiming in from time to time.
That's a great aim, and I'd be happy to try and clarify key issues, though that will depend on the Spanish team letting me know about them and serving as a go-between (again, they've been very proactive is asking about the progress on this specific resource). In case it helps, for me personally it's very hard just to keep up with the high volume in the English forums, and I often lean on others to alert me to something that needs a response (in this case, thanks go to Kyle). We're very glad to have such an engaged user base, and I regularly get helpful feedback and new ideas from all our users, including the Spanish team.
Another personal note: part of my agenda for Faithlife has always been to ensure that the dollars that go into English development pay dividends for other languages as well. No one will be surprised that we invest a lot more in English overall: but in particular, for the Content Innovation team, when we organize and curate data, and then get it localized into Spanish, German, Portuguese, Chinese, etc. we're greatly expanding the impact of that development outside English and creating resources that would never exist if they had to be funded by those language teams alone. In fact, part of the process we created for generating the GeoComm series was specifically designed to make it easier to publish that resource for other languages. Clearly we haven't gotten there yet, but that continues to be an important goal. For example, with Logos 9, we shipped about 17 new data-derived resources for 7 different languages (that's 119 of them), as close to simultaneously as we could manage (and we're catching up with French). Building that process also took much longer than I anticipated (and has contributed to the GeoComm delays), but having built it, we can now repeat that process much more smoothly in the future.
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WR82 said:
Hey, let’s reward Sean’s answer with a thank you. 😀
Customer service is not a fun job sometimes, and Sean is doing it well.
it does us no good as customers to always complain, even when someone does something right.
You need to slow down and read (?) ... inclusion of unpublished books in packages guarantees being published ... sometimes years later!
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DMB said:WR82 said:
Hey, let’s reward Sean’s answer with a thank you. 😀
Customer service is not a fun job sometimes, and Sean is doing it well.
it does us no good as customers to always complain, even when someone does something right.
You need to slow down and read (?) ... inclusion of unpublished books in packages guarantees being published ... sometimes years later!
I am often guilty of that! Sorry if I misunderstood... I agree with you about this positive aspect to base packages.
I just didn't see you interact with Sean's post.
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Sean Boisen said:
I apologize for the delay in producing this resource, and for over-estimating what we'd be able to produce on time for Logos 9. We've been backed up with a number of Logos 9 resources that haven't yet been delivered, including this one, and we're trying to get them shipped as soon as we can. At this point, my best estimate is that this will get shipped some time in March.
Appreciate update. Could a Spanish product description page (PDP) be created so Spanish Base Packages (Bibliotecas) could link to PDP so customers could see "Comentario Geográfico: de Hechos hasta Apocalipsis" is in progress ? Awesome would be PDP showing projected ship date (like other pre-publications).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Sean Boisen said:
I apologize for the delay in producing this resource, and for over-estimating what we'd be able to produce on time for Logos 9. We've been backed up with a number of Logos 9 resources that haven't yet been delivered, including this one, and we're trying to get them shipped as soon as we can. At this point, my best estimate is that this will get shipped some time in March.
Ahora tengo una idea clara sobre este asunto, de mi parte quiero agradecer por que ya tengo una respuesta oficial, Gracias!
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Sean Boisen said:
(…But the Spanish team has been diligently asking about this resource and its timeline on behalf of their customers.)
My question is: If they have been so diligently asking, then how come they haven’t communicated with their customers to at least say, “Hey guys, we’ve been diligently asking but we have received no answer yet. We will let you know as soon as we get some information.” Instead, they have gone completely silent with zero communication. That doesn’t seem very professional nor diligent on their part.
The load shouldn’t be on you to communicate; after all, we are their customers and they should be able to keep us posted at least with the bare minimum, even if it’s just to say, “sorry guys nothing yet.”
Case in point, the VIP program that they have it’s always late. We are almost in the middle of February and the coupon for the month of February is still not up yet. They ask us to spend certain amount of money to have access to those monthly coupons yet we always have to wait for them every single month. That’s not being diligent in my book! With connect I get my coupons at the very beginning of the month — with them it’s whenever they feel like posting them; thereby making the company look bad. And what’s worse, it seems like they don’t care because they’re not really doing anything to correct that.
But anyway, just bringing this up to your attention maybe you can talk to them that way they might be able to start communicating a little bit better with their customers since they are so diligent.
Thanks!
DAL
Ps. For the record, communication wasn’t always a problem. Back when Guillermo was the Director of the Spanish department, he communicated a lot with the customers. As soon as he was gone, communication disappeared.
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Logos 10 is here, and we are still waiting this resource
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Logos 10 is here, and we are still waiting this resource
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