Pastors, help please.....

I want some help with something. How would you teach a bible class? I would like to make a class that is not lecture oriented. What is the best way to open up discussion? To lead away from lecture, I was also considering having people take notes over the verses that are covered. Any other suggestions are welcome.

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SteveF

How would you teach a bible class? I would like to make a class that is not lecture oriented. What is the best way to open up discussion?

The older Logos Lesson Builder (using Inter Varsity Bible Study Guides which are available in Christian Book Stores) attempted to find a point of contact in the "real" world. Thus it began with a possible "application" point in order to create interest and discussion. ie. try to begin with where folks are in order to "earn" their entry into an "apparently" (in their eyes?) 1st century text, so that they too can benefit from the ever living truths that the Living Spirit of God would have them know.

All the best, my brother!

davidphillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155248#Comment_155248

William,

I like doing inductive Bible studies. Each week people in the class get the following week's passage printed out (with paragraphs removed) so that they can read it and mark it up over the course of the week. They are encouraged to make observations (we aren't doing any formal inductive Bible study method, such as Precepts) and ask questions and use commentaries if they have them in their study. Then when we come together in class, we start by sharing observations, then move to asking and answering questions. As much as possible I try to let the people answer each other's questions. Finally, we discuss the main point(s) of the passage and our applications. I have found that this is a great way to generate discussion, especially as people get used to the format!

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155255#Comment_155255

Bill, the resources I am using now in my Matthew class include the following:

The ESV

Lutheran Study Bible

Concordia Commentary - Matthew 1:1 - 11:1

RCH Lenski Commentary on Matthew

For starters, I get a map of the area, make sure I can identify the important items, get a timeline chart, and read the introduction material from the LSB. If they have info, I go thru that. This is stuff like "Author", "Written when", other details like that.

Some of the other things going on in the world at that time, Roman Emperor Tiberius, etc.

I do not present this stuff as lecture per se; just starting and ranting for the hour or so. Instead, I give some brief info, as it fits into the actual Bible passages, as we step through. I am at Matthew 6:1 now, so we read about 6 verses (to where the Bible version has a natural paragraph stop). Things come up, such as how are we to be charitable. So I ask if people give money to people on street corners, or to the church, or to Union Gospel Mission, etc. Then we talk about why one might be better than the other.

So the sooner you get personal involvement from them, the better. Each time they offer their opinions and views, they are buying into the class more and more. Be sure to take attendance, so you will know if your class grows or not.

Dan

Mark Smith

William,

Let me refer you to a Logos resource that would be a good basic introduction t teaching the Bible: Mastering Teaching by Roberta Hestenes, Howard Hendricks, and Earl Palmer. This is a part of Leader's Library and all the flavors of the Scholar's Library.

logosres:mstmin12;ref=Page.p_3 in your library (hopefully).

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/mstmin12 at Logos.

Timothy Ha

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155271#Comment_155271

Thanks, Mark, for pointing to this book.

Thanks, William, for sharing your problem. I am following this topic now, since I also need some directions for teaching children in church and family.

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155273#Comment_155273

Thanks, Mark, for pointing to this book.

Ditto!

I'm trying to teach college-agers Revelation (at their request), but many in the class aren't personally engaging--I want them to build their faith, not listen to mine--and and hour lecture on Revelation once a week would turn most anyone off. Any tips welcome.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155273#Comment_155273

Thanks all for the input. I will take a closer look at that book Mark.

I am actually teaching on a topic and not a "passage." I feel like I have a really good scripture foundation for the topic. My only problem is.....how can I best "teach" the verses. I do not like getting a list of verses on the page and reading them. I want something more. I would not expect these verses to be memorized either. I just want "more application" of the verses. I was hoping to do the scripture teaching first.....and then show some of the non-scripture teaching and how it manifests today. How might you present a topic teaching?

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155288#Comment_155288

I use storying. We actually only have 2 women who are capable and (sort of) confident enough to lead the group. As they are liable to be impeded by unexpected guest, both prepare to be able to lead the study, as I do myself. The leader tells the story, trying to be true to the Bible and without embroidering it or putting in explanations, then gets someone else to tell what she remembers (this helps the leader to see what she has communicated and what needs more work), then elicits the story from the rest of the group thro questions. They've now heard the story 2 or 3 times, depending how accurate the second teller was - we don't correct them at that stage. Then they describe what they see on the "screen" in the various scenes of the story. Who is there? What do they say/do? What else could they have said/done? What is God doing/thinking? At this stage we have a really lively spontaneous discussion. Sometimes there's a debate as to what the Bible says, in which case we consult the Book. We now seek the implications for our own lives of what we have learned from the story. Then turn it into prayer. The women I work with are semi-literate. I have a theology degree. We all gain so much from this storying method. Afterwards they are all able to tell the story to others, and the story makes the point, not the preaching! I find myself turning to the Translator's Handbook and other commentaries as an essential part of my preparation. Thank you, Logos! We are all enriched thro the stories we study. One woman who is a Believer, but understands very little and often misunderstands, has begun to understand more and remember more.

I've only recently refused to continue leading the group. I am there as a group member, and may have something to contribute. But at last I am confident that they can use this method as well without me as with me.

Graham Owen

What is the best way to open up discussion?

In my experience getting a good discussion requires a couple of things:

First the attendees need to have something to say so its good to give out an outline of each planned discussion a week or so in advance to allow personal study.

Second you need to work with the 'excessive talkers' in the group to keep them quiet some of the time so others can speak, as Pastor's we need to include ourselves in that category!

How I would teach the class would depend on my objectives for the group, one thing that worked well for us for about 3 years was the Standard Lesson Commentary it comes with some canned PowerPoint presentations including discussion points which I usually modified. It works on a six year walk through the Bible and there is a weekly reading plan.

One thing to watch out for in discussion groups are the people who have one thing that they want to say every week and try and make it fit every lesson best trick that I have found for dealing with this is acting like someone just pressed the pause button and when they have finished just carry on where you left off. I know that this might sound a bit disrespectful but having wasted hours either trying to make the point relevant or gently steering the group back on target I have found this is the best approach for the whole group. I have also noticed that the person with the point they want to make is rarely offended by this approach because they have said what they wanted to say and so are happy.

Kevin Becker

Ask lots of questions. Mix it up, ask easy questions that will lead to hard questions that you will have to answer. Even though they won't know how to answer everything the discipline of asking good questions is just as important as the truths you are covering that day. Pause 3 or 4 times during the class and ask if anyone has any questions or comments, especially after introducing an idea that may be new to them. Keep an eye out for the puzzled or thoughtful looks; this indicates a question is brewing and you might have to coax it out of the student. If you are moving through a book sequentially ask them where themes have shown up before or elsewhere in the Bible. If you class will allow you (i.e. not be offended) make statements they disagree with to incite discussion (i.e. "some interpreters say X when our church believes Y, what do you think about this difference?"). As you ask questions you will probably get responses that you disagree with, sometimes exploring your differences with the answer in front of the class can be fruitful, other times it will be an exercise in futility, be willing to let a comment go without rebuttal, just move on without endorsing the idea.

Above all, know your audience. What works in my Sunday school class might not work in yours. Model good scriptural interpretation and pray they catch the process as well as the content as God uses it in their life.

I find Logos' passage list feature to be very helpful when I'm teaching. I lay out the verses as I expect to use them and use lots of headings so I can find my place quickly. It's not infrequent that my intended flow of though/verses doesn't happen because of the interaction with the class. Normally when this happens the class moves much more organically then when discussion is low and I have to fall back on lecture.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155288#Comment_155288

How might you present a topic teaching?

A class I had on church education at sem suggested we use creative tension. In other word make people uncomfortable enough that they want out of their discomfort. Another important thing I learned later in my reading is that people remember 20% of what they're told, but 80% of what they discover; so I want to lead them through a discovery process, not an information receiving process.

So a question like "Other Christians differ on this, how do you know your view is Biblical?" early on can create the tension needed to probe the issue, and invite people into a discovery process.

As to looking up texts, I'll sometimes ask if anyone knows a passage that speaks to the issue, and see what happens. They might come up with a passage that you hadn't considered.

Then I'd assign passages to different people in the room (just a few at a time) and ask one person to read the passage out loud and answer an open ended question like: "How do you think this passage speaks to our issue?" I will sometimes encourage a more subjective response by asking how people feel about what is being said in a passage, or how they suppose it might apply to the issue at hand. Subjective responses usually feel safer for people concerned about being 'right' about their interpretation. Collect the subjective responses first and then reinforce their responses with what you've learned by your studies (bring in the objective later).

Allow people to get it wrong. Don't embarrass them by pointing out the foolishness of their errors, but don't let error go unchallenged either. "I see how you might understand it that way. In my studies, however, this is what I've found..."

I use Logos all the time to prepare Bible studies (almost always studies of particular passages - but even then we do topical studies of the stuff in the passage!). I use all the tools: Passage/Exegetical Guide, commentaries (especially application commentaries), text comparison, and obviously the text itself (in the original as I'm able). I love to ask the question: "Why do you suppose he said it this way?" another favorite one is "What do you think this means for us today?" Here's one I really like "How would you explain this to someone who never heard this before?" Of course, I'd better be able to answer my own questions before I ask them to a group!

Pat Flanakin

Discussion is good, but ensure that if someone begins going off in a direction which is unbiblical, it gets reined in, assuming you are training or have significant conservative theological background in your arsenal.

I have been skeptical about bible studies where everyone gets around in a circle and just spews whatever they want about the passage and no one with any bible training is there, or if they are there, they do not speak up, defending the Word of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Just be cautious of this.

I now go to a church where the small group bible studies during the week are first, directed overall by the pastor where he drives the curriculum, not the bible study leader; second, bible study and prayer is the focus, not social time; they meet each week for 2 hours a meeting; and the pastor interviews each bible study leader once every couple of weeks to ensure that the format is being followed. Lastly, the pastor ensure that the content and understanding taught by the small group leader is in line with the church's doctrinal statement and the pastor's understanding of the biblical truth of the topics.

Dennis Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155533#Comment_155533

I find the most interesting form of study for a small group is an interactive verse by verse where you encourage each persons input and participation. I usually have someone read a section of our text and then ask them what they think the author and the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us. Sometimes we get good responses and at other times I pick it up and begin the discussion just to keep things moving. It usually gets some good discussion going and everyone learns in the process. I also encourage them all to study ahead and be prepared. We are currently going through Romans.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155533#Comment_155533

Hints from a Catholic lay person i.e. not someone you asked.

Trust the Holy Spirit to be at work assisting everyone in understanding. Open with a prayer explicitly indicating this.
Recognize that some people really struggle to express themselves orally in a group. Help them by feeding back what you heard and letting them rephrase. Cheat when they are off-base by slanting your rephrasing towards moving them to a better understanding.
Give interpretative options and ask people to state which they think is the better and why. Use options that are refinements not right/wrong interpretations.
Stack the deck. Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class so that they can ask questions or make remarks that will get the discussion going.
Make a bookmark that contains 3 or 4 open ended questions that can be asked of each of the texts. ... For a topical study I'd also see if the Scripture references fit on the bookmark. Add quotes or graphics to make the bookmark something they will want to use for the duration of the study.
Remember that sometimes the least likely people have a major insight - for me, it was an auto mechanic who said he was just there as transportation for his wife ...
Make sure your presentation is peppered with questions ... and insist that you get at least an attempt from someone in the group to answer or explain why they can't answer. Don't let the same people respond over and over ... ask someone by name if they otherwise will not speak up. (Know your group sufficiently to know who you shouldn't do this with).
Have a memorable image that fits your topic that people can keep coming back to in order to see how the current discussion fits with the whole.
What is obvious to one may be a break through understanding for another. Reward both the positive feedback but not (my pet peeve) "thank you for sharing"
Use Logos commentaries to prepare yourself for tangents people may go off on ... i.e. issues that the passage may raise that don't relate to your topic ... and plan in advance how to draw these back into the main discussion. Ditto verses that speak to your topic but are not in the session's agenda.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155557#Comment_155557

Well done Martha [Y]

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155557#Comment_155557

Hints from a Catholic lay person i.e. not someone you asked.

Trust the Holy Spirit to be at work assisting everyone in understanding. Open with a prayer explicitly indicating this.

Recognize that some people really struggle to express themselves orally in a group. Help them by feeding back what you heard and letting them rephrase. Cheat when they are off-base by slanting your rephrasing towards moving them to a better understanding.

Give interpretative options and ask people to state which they think is the better and why. Use options that are refinements not right/wrong interpretations.

Stack the deck. Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class so that they can ask questions or make remarks that will get the discussion going.

Make a bookmark that contains 3 or 4 open ended questions that can be asked of each of the texts. ... For a topical study I'd also see if the Scripture references fit on the bookmark. Add quotes or graphics to make the bookmark something they will want to use for the duration of the study.

Remember that sometimes the least likely people have a major insight - for me, it was an auto mechanic who said he was just there as transportation for his wife ...

Make sure your presentation is peppered with questions ... and insist that you get at least an attempt from someone in the group to answer or explain why they can't answer. Don't let the same people respond over and over ... ask someone by name if they otherwise will not speak up. (Know your group sufficiently to know who you shouldn't do this with).

Have a memorable image that fits your topic that people can keep coming back to in order to see how the current discussion fits with the whole.

What is obvious to one may be a break through understanding for another. Reward both the positive feedback but not (my pet peeve) "thank you for sharing"

Use Logos commentaries to prepare yourself for tangents people may go off on ... i.e. issues that the passage may raise that don't relate to your topic ... and plan in advance how to draw these back into the main discussion. Ditto verses that speak to your topic but are not in the session's agenda.

Martha! *smile* Thank you! Just excellent, that's all............

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155551#Comment_155551

We are currently going through Romans

Wow,Dennis very interesting Book,so am I doing.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155551#Comment_155551

I find the most interesting form of study for a small group is an interactive verse by verse

Verses are too small – Try paragraphs at the minimum – need to cover a complete thought (imho)

Verses were introduced in the 1550’s (or so) to allow finding words in a concordance. Not all verses cover a complete thought. (even some chapters breaks are questionable)

On the other hand have spent two two-hour studies on the first 4 verses of Daniel.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155557#Comment_155557

Hints from a Catholic lay person i.e. not someone you asked.

Trust the Holy Spirit to be at work assisting everyone in understanding. Open with a prayer explicitly indicating this.

Stack the deck. Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class so that they can ask questions or make remarks that will get the discussion going.

Use Logos commentaries to prepare yourself for tangents people may go off on ... i.e. issues that the passage may raise that don't relate to your topic ... and plan in advance how to draw these back into the main discussion. Ditto verses that speak to your topic but are not in the session's agenda.

· A-men

· How do you “Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class”?

· Is that a ‘tangent’ or the one true meaning that no one else has seen?

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155557#Comment_155557

Hints from a Catholic lay person i.e. not someone you asked.

Trust the Holy Spirit to be at work assisting everyone in understanding. Open with a prayer explicitly indicating this.

Stack the deck. Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class so that they can ask questions or make remarks that will get the discussion going.

Use Logos commentaries to prepare yourself for tangents people may go off on ... i.e. issues that the passage may raise that don't relate to your topic ... and plan in advance how to draw these back into the main discussion. Ditto verses that speak to your topic but are not in the session's agenda.

· A-men

· How do you “Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class”?

· Is that a ‘tangent’ or the one true meaning that no one else has seen?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155614#Comment_155614

How do you “Get two or three class participants to meet with you prior to class”?

Usually, there are people in the class I know well enough to ask them to help me. Occasionally, I ask the parish staff for suggestions - a way to bring new people in. I'm not above bribing people with a trip to the local coffee house.

Is that a ‘tangent’ or the one true meaning that no one else has seen?

I think of things as tangents only when leading a topical study ... they are legitimate observations that should be given a hearing but not allowed to derail the topic of the study. Sometimes I think people are going off on tangents only to find them pulling it into the main topic at the end of their comments.

Dennis Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/155611#Comment_155611

David, we study verse by verse a chapter at a time unless of course it is more conducive to stop before or after a chapter break to stay in context. We do not just study one verse per session.

Michael Sullivan

Hi Bill,

Based on my experience, the best way to teach a Bible class depeneds on the group in front of you and your particular gifts. Asking for feed back is important.

Over the years have have learned that less is more. I use to make lots of hand outs. Now I pretty much just teach straight from the Bible

Here is what I feel is important:

1) Pray that the LORD guide you in your study.

2) Read the Bible lesson

3) Read the Context

4) Note the Law passage and the Gospel passage.

5) Ask the question: "Where is Jesus in this text?

6) Summarize the text.

7) Formulate questions based on the context (Ask questions that are answer by Scripture directly, and not what a person thinks or feels. This accomplishes the important task of getting people to LOOK a the text.

8) Answer the questions for yourself :"How does this text show me my sin and show me my Savior" and the formulate a few application questions from that."

9) Read a good commentary after doing the work listed above. (People's Bible Commentary is my suggestion)

10) Pray after you preparations

11) Pray before you teach.

12) Have people use the Bibles (don't merely print up the scripture sections on a lesson sheet.

13) Teach the lesson

14) Pray after you finished that the Word take root.

Mike Childs

Discussion and class participation is essential. However, it is of less value when the class is not seriously studying the Bible. If everyone just comes and pools their ignorance, I am not interested. Give me a lecture by somebody prepared, rather than that. So you have to balance it with knowledgeable presentation and room for discussion.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/157043#Comment_157043

Give me a lecture by somebody prepared

Michael,

Thanks for keeping me honest. I have been a certified secondary math and science teacher for the previous 5 years, so I have been preparing a great deal. Since I am a lay-christian-teacher, I have probably studied 40-50 hours for a 3-4 hours of sunday bible class time. It is most definately important that a teacher be well prepared for a class. The time will go slow. The students will not enjoy the material. The material would likely be confusing or would have no real connection with life.

William