BUG: Home Screen & Blank Screen

I am using Logos 10 on a Mac mini with the Ventura OS. I have "At Startup Open to" Home. However when I want to clear the screen and select "Close all" the Home Screen appears! If I then click "Home" the screen does clear!

Very strange.

Is there a way I can have "At Startup Open to" set to "Home" and then wen I click on "Close all" everything closes and I get a blank screen?

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Wolfgang Schneider

For some reason, with "Home" set as opening layout at startup. the "Close all" always reverts to the Home page. If a saved layout or a blank screen is set as opening at startup, the "close all" function closes all panes and you get a blank screen layout. Somehow the "Home" layout doesn't seem to be considered to be a real layout, but something different.

This behavior of "Close all" reverting to "Home" rather than actually just "closing all panes to a blank screen layout" is inconsistent, and should be considered a bug and be fixed.

Dave Hooton

I am using Logos 10 on a Mac mini with the Ventura OS. I have "At Startup Open to" Home. However when I want to clear the screen and select "Close all" the Home Screen appears! If I then click "Home" the screen does clear!

In Windows, the top toolbar Close All is greyed out when I open Logos to a Home screen. It indicates there are no layout panels to close and is functioning as intended. Also, there is no indication of an active layout in the Layouts menu. When I click Home, Logos presents a blank screen!

I would say the Mac behaviour is a bug

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234619#Comment_1234619

Is there a way I can have "At Startup Open to" set to "Home" and then wen I click on "Close all" everything closes and I get a blank screen?

Yes - Set you "At startup Open to" Blank screen, when the program starts, click the Home button - you get the Home screen. But from that point on, Close All will revert to a blank screen. And, your Home icon is a toggle (blank screen <-> Home Page).

In Windows, the top toolbar Close All is greyed out when I open Logos to a Home screen. It indicates there are no layout panels to close and is functioning as intended. Also, there is no indication of an active layout in the Layouts menu. When I click Home, Logos presents a blank screen!

I would say the Mac behaviour is a bug

Not sure why you say the Mac behavior is a bug - my Mac does exactly what you say Windows does:

1. Close All greyed out when Logos opened to a Home screen.

2. There is no indication of an active layout in the layouts menu.

3. Clicking Home goes to blank screen - clicking Home again brings up the Home Page again. It's a toggle.

This is exactly how it should work imho - I sure hope they don't change it (to what I don't know). Martin's case, close all brings up the Hone page - that is correct - the user has 2 choices for the look with "no active layouts" - blank screen and Home page. Pick one by selecting which is visible on startup. The Home icon is a toggle between these two "No layout" looks. "Close All' goes back to your default startup option.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234635#Comment_1234635

In Windows, the top toolbar Close All is greyed out when I open Logos to a Home screen. It indicates there are no layout panels to close and is functioning as intended. Also, there is no indication of an active layout in the Layouts menu. When I click Home, Logos presents a blank screen!

I would say the Mac behaviour is a bug

Not sure why you say the Mac behavior is a bug - my Mac does exactly what you say Windows does:

1. Close All greyed out when Logos opened to a Home screen.

2. There is no indication of an active layout in the layouts menu.

3. Clicking Home goes to blank screen - clicking Home again brings up the Home Page again. It's a toggle.

This is exactly how it should work imho

On the OP's version of Mac it is a bug as you endorse the same behavior that I described for Windows. What version of Mac do you have?

I sure hope they don't change it (to what I don't know). Martin's case, close all brings up the Hone page - that is correct - the user has 2 choices for the look with "no active layouts" - blank screen and Home page. Pick one by selecting which is visible on startup. The Home icon is a toggle between these two "No layout" looks. "Close All' goes back to your default startup option

So why do you endorse Martin's case where Close All is active on opening to Home?

Martin J Webster

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234639#Comment_1234639

From what I remember, Logos 9 was different in that you could open to Home Page but the close function cleared the screen. Is my memory faulty?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234652#Comment_1234652

From what I remember, Logos 9 was different in that you could open to Home Page but the close function cleared the screen. Is my memory faulty?

Nope! Same behaviour as Logos 10 Windows.

What is your version of Mac?

Wolfgang Schneider

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234619#Comment_1234619

In Windows, the top toolbar Close All is greyed out when I open Logos to a Home screen. It indicates there are no layout panels to close and is functioning as intended. Also, there is no indication of an active layout in the Layouts menu. When I click Home, Logos presents a blank screen!

I would say the Mac behaviour is a bug

Well, I have this "bug" in Win10 as well ...

Yes, when "Home" is opened at startup, the "close all" icon is greyed out and not available. When I then open a saved layout or just open a Bible pane, the "Home" disappears and in its place the saved layout or pane is displayed. When I then use the "close all" button, the screen reverts to the "Home" instead of just closing all panes and leaving the screen blank.

The problem is that "Home" somehow does not just open once at startup (as I want to be the case when setting it in "open at startup" in program settings, instead it "lingers" in place of a "blank screen" throughout the whole session, and every time I want to close all panes with one click, or close the last pane if I close several panes individually one after another, I am presented with the Home page ... which is what I do NOT want.

This behavior however seems to be intended, it probably is not a technical bug, but a feature by design to please folks who in essence like the "Home page" to be their "blank screen" ... to the detriment of those of us who want a blank screen when closing all panes, and who want Home when starting up but not every time they intend to have a blank screen.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234687#Comment_1234687

I am on Ventura 13.0.

I may be wrong, but i am reading what he said differently than you are. He said this, my comments in parens:

I have "At Startup Open to" Home

(as do I).

However when I want to clear the screen

(this may imply he has a layout up, as you noted 'Close All' is not enabled on the Home Screen, unless Martin specifically says that it is)

and select "Close all" the Home Screen appears!

(which makes sense if a layout is up - close all goes back to the Home Page or blank, depending on how you have 'At Startup to Open' to set. This is also an argument that something other than Home Page is up, ie an active layout, otherwise Martin would not have said 'THe Home Screen appears' if it was already there!))

If I then click "Home" the screen does clear!

(Yes it will - Home icon is a toggle)

So in my mind the only unclear point is to be specific - is he saying he can (1) start Logos with 'At Startup open to' set to Home Page, and AS SOON AS Logos is up, the Close All icon is enabled?

- If yes - that's a bug I don't see

- If it's not enabled - it's working as designed.

Also, look at the last thing he asks:

'Is there a way I can have "At Startup Open to" set to "Home" and then when I click on "Close all" everything closes and I get a blank screen?'

- He wants the system to act like 'At Startup Open to', to be set to blank page, EXCEPT when he first starts Logos, then have it go to the Home Page. It doesn't work that way.

Wolfgang's post is more clear - it seems to me people don't realize that "On Startup Open to" is more than just a one time setting for program start - it sets the default screen (Home page or blank) WHENEVER all layouts are closed/Close Al is hit.

So I guess we need Martin to be more clear in his description, especially by answering this question -- can he 'start Logos with 'At Startup open to' set to Home Page, and AS SOON AS Logos is up, the Close All icon is enabled? '

Wolfgang Schneider

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234695#Comment_1234695

Wolfgang's post is more clear - it seems to me people don't realize that "On Startup Open to" is more than just a one time setting for program start - it sets the default screen (Home page or blank) WHENEVER all layouts are closed/Close Al is hit.

And that is exactly the BUG ...does "start up" now mean "default"? It does NOT set the default screen whenever all layouts are closed or close all is hit. For example, when I set "{whatever my saved layout}" as open at startup, it does NOT become the default "whenever all layouts are closed, rather closing all panes or "close all" brings up a blank screen! So then, actually blank screen is the "real" Logos software default, and the "Home page" is in essence an external website that can be toggled to be "temporarily" pulled over the actual L10 software screen, and when toggled off the actual L10 software screen is brought back to the foreground.

I would say, that "blank screen" should be the L10 default and starting screen. The "Home" page may be toggled on/off via the Home icon, but not via the "close all" button.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234699#Comment_1234699

I would say, that "blank screen" should be the L10 default and starting screen. The "Home" page may be toggled on/off via the Home icon, but not via the "close all" button.

Good point about layouts, but it's always worked as it does now, so it's not really a bug. To change that behavior may irk all the people who prefer Close All to go back to their Home Page. You could probably add a suggestion to change it and let people vote on it; since it's not a bug/change in behavior that's likely the only way FL changes it. Just my .02.

Wolfgang Schneider

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234709#Comment_1234709

Good point about layouts, but it's always worked as it does now, so it's not really a bug. To change that behavior may irk all the people who prefer Close All to go back to their Home Page.

Don't they realize that they do not even need to close all in order to go to the Home page?? Just click on Home ... and, voila, there it is!

You could probably add a suggestion to change it and let people vote on it; since it's not a bug/change in behavior that's likely the only way FL changes it. Just my .02.

It was also addressed already ... but there is seemingly no interest in thinking through such matters ... [:(] ...
"make things easier for more users" (going by ideas that more users use this "Home" page as their permanent starting or desired point to where to go when closing panes ... ) might be the rationale ...

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234699#Comment_1234699

I would say, that "blank screen" should be the L10 default and starting screen.

To which I would say "No thanks." The dashboard of the Home Page is where I keep my standard layouts and actions -- the Readings for the liturgical day, the saint(s) of the day's liturgical calendar, the layout(s) for my current project(s), the mobile ed courses I am currently working through, my current reading plans, and I would keep a prayer list there if the function came close to meeting my needs. When I close everything from one task, I want to see the Home Page to move on to the next tab.

I recognize that some people use the shortcuts bar to do what I do with the dashboard so they may not wish to go to the Home Page but I believe the Home Page to be the better option. I rarely look at anything below the dashboard on the Home Page as none of it effects how I work or where I am in my work. But to me, the current design makes sense - when I close what I am working on, I am shown my "tasklist". Unless I am doing something entirely new, e.g. testing a function so I can answer a forum question, I never need to see a blank page.

My current dashboard - part real and part test.

Wolfgang is requesting a design change, not reporting a bug. It is a design change I would not support because it would eliminate my dashboard as a task list. Task lists are not supported elsewhere in Logos.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234717#Comment_1234717

Since we're comparing Home pages. I wonder if 'the default' is even an issue; user stats would be needed. Had to click around to find it (tabernacle icon).

Wolfgang Schneider

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234717#Comment_1234717

Actually, I am requesting that "close all" means "close all", and "at start up" means "at start up"

I also think that "Home page" is part of "all". If I want to load the Home page, I have the "Home" button to open (or even close) it.

Why is there a difference between "Home" and e.g. my starting Layout" ? ... if I close all, it doesn't automatically go to that layout, I have to open that layout manually ...

Btw, I use the Home dashboard for a few things in my daily activities as well and have the rest of the home page cleared (contents is not really of interest to me on everyday basis). When I need to see the dashboard, I open it via the Home button ... and just for that I do not need to "close all".

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234719#Comment_1234719

Since we're comparing Home pages ...

Well, that's not good. Now my right-clicking the icons is touch and go. Sometimes, sometimes not. And sometimes second time. Plus I can predictably get the spinning pizza and a force shut down, if a failed right-click (turning into a single click), followed by a failed right-click. Re-started app. Restarted Mac.

Ignore the UI and move on. It's an FL app.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234721#Comment_1234721

Actually, I am requesting that "close all" means "close all", and "at start up" means "at start up"

If what you want is a change of wording, fine. If what you want is a change of function, I will object strenuously. Technically, the Home Page is an overlay rather than a layout from the perspective of the FL designer IIRC.

When I need to see the dashboard, I open it via the Home button ... and just for that I do not need to "close all".

That is adding a step to the procedure of those of us who have for a decade or so been trained that it is unnecessary. There are times when it is necessary for me to put up with an irritating change in behavior for the sake of the common good. I do not see this as such a case.

Wolfgang Schneider

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234723#Comment_1234723

Actually, I am requesting that "close all" means "close all", and "at start up" means "at start up"

If what you want is a change of wording, fine. If what you want is a change of function, I will object strenuously. Technically, the Home Page is an overlay rather than a layout from the perspective of the FL designer IIRC.

It would only be appropriate if functions do what the words describing them mean

When I need to see the dashboard, I open it via the Home button ... and just for that I do not need to "close all".

That is adding a step to the procedure of those of us who have for a decade or so been trained that it is unnecessary.

What step is added?? Click on "close all" button to bring Home page into view is a ONE click step. Click on "Home" button to bring Home page into view is a ONE click step. Perhaps the question should be asked, what and why have we been trained that way??

There are times when it is necessary for me to put up with an irritating change in behavior for the sake of the common good. I do not see this as such a case.

The difference between us in this matter is that I do not argue for what I observe and notice as being inconsistent from a personal experience and working preference I have trained myself to use ... I don't care what my current personal preference habit is as much as I am concerned with the software being consistent, logical, intuitiv, etc.

Thus, I will not comment any further on this matter because I've tried to make my points as objectively as possible and there is really nothing further for me to add to what I would deem an improvement to the software's working.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1234726#Comment_1234726

My goal is simply to get you to understand the issues involved in changing the design

Click on "Home" button to bring Home page into view is a ONE click step.

Close all achieves two actions - closing all existing tabs and opening the Home Page; clicking on the Home Page only opens the Home Page, it does not close the existing tabs.

The difference between us in this matter is that I do not argue for what I observe and notice as being inconsistent from a personal experience and working preference I have trained myself to use ... I don't care what my current personal preference habit is as much as I am concerned with the software being consistent, logical, intuitiv, etc.

I do not argue from personal preference but from a career of designing systems and interfaces that had to meet the requirements of a very diverse user base. I indicated a willingness to change the wording to meet the intuitive and consistency requirements. If you make a formal request for the change, at least I have tried to make you understand why I will not support it. It is up to the larger Logos/Verbum community and the Faithlife staff to weigh the pros and cons of the two approaches.