"Jehovah" instead of "God"?
I'm a Verbum 10 user, so this probably applies to Logos 10 too. I use the the UI in Spanish, and wherever Verbum mentions "God" (i.e. in the Explorer tool), Logos/Verbum displays it as "Jehová". The natural and literal translation of "God" in Spanish is "Dios", but instead it translates it as "Jehová". Honestly, this is a very strange choice.
English users: would you feel comfortable if Logos displayed "Jehovah" instead of "God" everywhere in the interface? I'm not talking about specific Bible translations, but the Logos User Interface.
It looks like there is an inconsistency here: if "God" is the chosen term in English, why not "Dios" in Spanish? Why "Jehová"?
Here's a screenshot to illustrate the issue. At the left side: UI in English. Right side: UI in Spanish.
Comments
-
(As a side note) My question would be: When are they going to write a book telling us to stop using “Jehovah” in English or Spanish since that’s not correct according to modern scholarship? YHWH is supposed to be the new correct way.
DAL
0 -
I'm not a spanish expert, but what's the deal with 'a woman' vs 'grupo de personas'?
Ok, back to 'Dios' (Jehova does seem pretty odd ... even in everyday english world; denominational?).
0 -
Aristocles said:
would you feel comfortable if Logos displayed "Jehovah" instead of "God" everywhere in the interface?
It certainly would not be my first choice, but I would understand what it means (i.e., the tetragrammaton underlies the translation).
The only folks I've ever encountered who insisted on using the Anglicized German transliteration exclusively were the Jay-Dubs. So yes, I do find this odd, but not a fatal flaw.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
0 -
DAL said:
(As a side note) My question would be: When are they going to write a book telling us to stop using “Jehovah” in English or Spanish since that’s not correct according to modern scholarship? YHWH is supposed to be the new correct way.
DAL
Doubtless very soon. I have to confess to liking translations that use Jehovah in the Old Testament. Unlike YHWH, the pronunciation is fairly natural in English, and using it captures the feel the Hebrew scriptures have of God having a personal name.
But that's just me.
0 -
I'm trying to remember if Jehovah wasn't Tyndale's Latinized construction that somehow didn't quite catch on with the gentlemen who put together the KJV as it appeared just a handful of times. It seems like it got carried over into other languages much easier.
I'm getting used to Yahweh in the LSB.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
mab said:
I'm trying to remember if Jehovah wasn't Tyndale's Latinized construction that somehow didn't quite catch on with the gentlemen who put together the KJV as it appeared just a handful of times.
Wikipedia has an interesting article on that (Jehovah - Wikipedia). It seems that "Jehovah" is what you can get if you naively read YHWH with the vowel points that have been added to remind the reader to say "adonai" instead.
0 -
DAL said:
(As a side note) My question would be: When are they going to write a book telling us to stop using “Jehovah” in English or Spanish since that’s not correct according to modern scholarship? YHWH is supposed to be the new correct way
Honestly, for me this is simply embarrasing. As many others have pointed out this is an incorrect reading of YHWH, with the wrong vowels.
But frankly, why do we even have to discuss this? Translating "God" as "Jehová" and not "Dios" is... wrong.
Doc B said:The only folks I've ever encountered who insisted on using the Anglicized German transliteration exclusively were the Jay-Dubs. So yes, I do find this odd, but not a fatal flaw.
Well, it's not a showstopper, as I can continue working, but having to use "Jehová" as a keyword in the Search tool is very annoying. I don't understand why Faithlife doesn't simply translate "God" as "Dios". Any Verbum user (= catholic) reading "Jehovah" in the UI or having to use "Jehovah" as a search keyword will surely find this awkward. There may be some christian groups that use this, but they must be a minority, and catholics don't use it for sure. As you say, it's usually associated with Jehovah's Witnesses.
May I ask Faithlife to consider changing this, please? At least for Verbum.
0 -
DMB said:
I'm not a spanish expert, but what's the deal with 'a woman' vs 'grupo de personas'?
This looks like a bug. When you click on "Grupo de personas" it opens the Factbook with articles about women.
0 -
DMB said:
I'm not a spanish expert, but what's the deal with 'a woman' vs 'grupo de personas'?
Looks like someone tries to be proper according to some gender linguistics ?
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
0 -
Aristocles said:
But frankly, why do we even have to discuss this? ... I don't understand why Faithlife doesn't simply translate "God" as "Dios".
I agree with you that Faithlife should change this and that no further discussion is needed.
Aristocles said:
There may be some christian groups that use this, but they must be a minority, and catholics don't use it for sure.
I know this is not the main point of this thread but since we are already discussing the use of this term in Spanish I just want to add the following footnote:
I am not a native Spanish speaker but to me this usage appears to be very common among Spanish speaking Protestants. When I search for this term in the Spanish resources in my Logos library I get 70,278 results in 441 resources. Most of these search results are in the various editions of the Reina-Valera Bible.
It seems that Casiodoro de Reina (1520-1594) took this translation of the Tetragrammaton from the French humanist Sebastian Castellio (1515-1563):
[quote]
Sobre las fuentes utilizadas por Reina para la traducción de su Biblia nos informa parcialmente él mismo en su Amonestacion al lector. En ella se dice que, además de las fuentes originales hebrea y griega, usó la versión de Santos Pagnino y la doble edición judeo-española de Ferrara 1553. Para las partes griegas del Antiguo Testamento Reina parece haber seguido sobre todo la Biblia latina de Zürich y en parte la de Castellion, de quien tomó el término [XXXXXX], en lugar del comúnmente usado Señor.
A question I am asking myself is: has this influenced catholics in Spanish-speaking countries as well? I have noticed that the Biblia de Jerusalén Latinoamericana and Straubinger's Sagrada Biblia also use the vocalized Tetragrammaton. As someone who was taught at university never to pronounce the Tetragrammaton I find this very remarkable.
0 -
HJ. van der Wal said:
I am not a native Spanish speaker but to me this usage appears to be very common among Spanish speaking Protestants. When I search for this term in the Spanish resources in my Logos library I get 70,278 results in 441 resources. Most of these search results are in the various editions of the Reina-Valera Bible.
It seems that Casiodoro de Reina (1520-1594) took this translation of the Tetragrammaton from the French humanist Sebastian Castellio (1515-1563):
(...)
This is interesting to know, thank you! That might be the origin of this translation.
HJ. van der Wal said:A question I am asking myself is: has this influenced catholics in Spanish-speaking countries as well? I have noticed that the Biblia de Jerusalén Latinoamericana and Straubinger's Sagrada Biblia also use the vocalized Tetragrammaton. As someone who was taught at university never to pronounce the Tetragrammaton I find this very remarkable.
I've never seen a spanish catholic bible using "Jehová". Some spanish catholic bibles, as you point out, that use the vocalized Tetragrammaton. The official liturgical translation (CEE 2011) uses "Señor" instead ("Lord").
I hope Faithlife considers redoing this translation.
0 -
This really belongs in the Español forum, where it is more likely to be seen by the Faithlife folks responsible for the Spanish version:
https://community.logos.com/forums/65.aspx
This too:
DMB said:I'm not a spanish expert, but what's the deal with 'a woman' vs 'grupo de personas'?
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
This really belongs in the Español forum, where it is more likely to be seen by the Faithlife folks responsible for the Spanish version:
I totally agree! 👍😁👌
0 -
I asked that it be moved. If it wasn't wanted, I'll ask that it be moved back.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
I asked that it be moved. If it wasn't wanted, I'll ask that it be moved back.
It’s the correct move. Maybe this time the Spanish team might see it. It might take a while, but they might see it and correct it. With the release of L10 they’re all pretty busy.
DAL
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
This really belongs in the Español forum, where it is more likely to be seen by the Faithlife folks responsible for the Spanish version:
Fair enough. Thank you everyone for your help.
0 -
I let the translation team know about both the Jesus => Jehová and A Woman => Grupo de Personas issues.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
0 -
Andrew Batishko said:
I let the translation team know about both the Jesus => Jehová and A Woman => Grupo de Personas issues.
That's great, thank you Andrew! Just a detail, it's not Jesus => Jehová but God => Jehová.
0 -
Aristocles said:
Just a detail, it's not Jesus => Jehová but God => Jehová.
Yup, sorry, I meant God, not Jesus.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
0 -
Just for the record, and with the hope of speeding up a change, I would like to add this article from the official Logos Blog about this topic:
0 -
HJ. van der Wal said:
Good article.
But technically, theos is the only approved Christian name/word for God (per the inspired Pastoral writer anyway, assuming writings). Presumably the latin translators didn't see it that way, and Jerome just confused matters.
The not often discussed greek issue, is that the Jewish theos was 'nameless', which (per authors) was bottom of the barrel in the Meditteranian. Demanded apologetic support, in the face of Zeus and Osirus.
0 -
They are many Names in the Bible that refer back and give witness to the one true God Jehovah,
To list a few from the old testament:
- Joel means "Jehovah is God"
- Joshua means "Jehovah is Salvation"
- Elijah means "My God is Jehovah"
- Hallelujah means "Praise Jehovah
In the New Testament they also names to point back to Jehovah
- Jesus means "Jehovah is Salvation"
- John means "Jehovah has been Gracious"
- Matthew means "Gift of Jehovah"
These names are just a short list. "Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name"
Interesting of how people who profess faith in Jesus Christ actually reject his words. [:(]
0 -
BroRando said:
They are many Names in the Bible that refer back and give witness to the one true God Jehovah,
To list a few from the old testament:
- Joel means "Jehovah is God"
- Joshua means "Jehovah is Salvation"
- Elijah means "My God is Jehovah"
- Hallelujah means "Praise Jehovah
In the New Testament they also names to point back to Jehovah
- Jesus means "Jehovah is Salvation"
- John means "Jehovah has been Gracious"
- Matthew means "Gift of Jehovah"
These names are just a short list. "Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name"
Interesting of how people who profess faith in Jesus Christ actually reject his words.
Did you read the article referred to above? 2 Reasons Why ‘Jehovah’ Should Not Appear in English Bibles
So, maybe the better explanation of the name "Jesus" would actually be "YAHWEH is salvation". And replacing YHWH in Bibel translations with something like "Lord" is exactly what the translators of the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint) and the original writers of the New Testament like Paul did (using the Greek word Kyrios, meaning Lord).
It's okay to not agree with other's choices, but don't argue like they have left the faithfulness to the Word of God.
0
