MEV TRANSLATION LACK OF CROSS-REFERENCES

I have been emailing the Publishers of the MEV (Modern English Version) about the scarcity of their cross-references and footnotes, by trying to convince them to update and expand them. As a result, I found out that their Fire Bible (MEV) has extended footnotes and cross-references. Logos appear to have basic text only. Below is my latest e-mail from them.

Quoting them:

From: Kayla Greene <debra.mills@charismamedia.com>
Date: Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 2:25 PM
To: Joseph W. Luna <gentlewarrior1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MEV UPDATE & FUTURE FOOTNOTES AND CROSS-REFERENCE

Hi Joseph,

Yes, the Fire Bible has extended notes.

For any online service such as Logos or the Bible App, they've obtained rights for the MEV text. We provide them with the text only, and the companies then format it to their liking. For any issues within Logos, please contact them directly. The phone number for Support that I found online is 888-563-0382.

If there's anything else I can help with, please let me know!

May God bless you and yours with a Merry and Holy Christmas.

Kind regards,

End of quote.

Is there any way Logos to extend and change the location of the cross-references? The cross-references are located before the verse with an asterisk. Really odd place to do that when all other translations use a letter either before or after a word.

Thank you,

Joseph

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Levi Durfey

When you look at a print edition of the MEV, the cross-references are tied to the verse, not specific words—

To put the references by specific words, Logos would have to go through the entire MEV and decide which words to tie the cross-references to.

They chose instead to do them verse by verse like the print edition put out by the publisher, and used a asterisk to indicate it.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239538#Comment_1239538

When you look at a print edition of the MEV, the cross-references are tied to the verse, not specific words—

To put the references by specific words, Logos would have to go through the entire MEV and decide which words to tie the cross-references to.

They chose instead to do them verse by verse like the print edition put out by the publisher, and used a asterisk to indicate it.

It seems the MEV in Logos has exactly the same footnotes as you showed in your post:

(The Logos version is not a blank text, as possibly other bible software may have, but actually has lots of cross references - as per Concordance tool: over 41.700 in fact - according to the front matter it's the MEV Thinline Reference Bible we have)

Dave Hooton

Is there any way Logos to extend and change the location of the cross-references?

You cite a "lack of cross-references" when the MEV NT has 11,600 in 6163 verses.

The ESV has 28,372 in 6730 verses

NASB95, CSB, HCSB, NIV 2011, NKJV have over 20,000 in 6000-6500 verses

NABRE has 9605 in 4048 verses

Three or four bibles have about 3,000

Others have much less!

16 of my English bibles have none!

The MEV is relatively well endowed and Faithlife cannot change what the publishers have provided.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239548#Comment_1239548

You must be joking. The MEV lags behind all the major translations in cross-references and in footnotes. I know this because I have compared them with the NKJV, the NASB, and the CSB for a couple of years now. Besides that, their location of its cross-references is frustrating since it is not located where they are supposed to be.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239538#Comment_1239538

It makes no sense to me the way Logos has located the cross-references which, like I said before, are fewer and far in between in comparison to the major translations. As far as footnotes is concerned, they are almost non-existent.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239538#Comment_1239538

Logos has done it with all other translations. Why is the MEV different?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239565#Comment_1239565

Logos has done it with all other translations. Why is the MEV different?

Eh? MEV is being treated the same as all other translations in my library. Somewhere in this thread, I went off the rail and no longer understand what you are saying. The MEV, like all other translations, has the number of footnotes and cross-references that were provided by the publisher.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239570#Comment_1239570

I said it very clearly, the locations of the cross-references are awkwardly placed before the verse, besides being few and far in between. Footnotes are missing with the exception of a very, very few ones. All other translations have their cross-references next to each word which makes all the sense of the world, but not the MEV.

Can you tell me why?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239571#Comment_1239571

Can you tell me why?

Yes, because that is how the publisher chose to print the Bible and to provide the file for Logos. A snapshot earlier in this thread clearly shows that.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239538#Comment_1239538

I'm only concerned with what Logos has put out, which looks to me like they did a very poor job in locating their cross-references.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239542#Comment_1239542

MEV in Logos DOES NOT HAVE lots of cross-references. They are poorly located, and their cross-references are few in comparison with the NKJV, the NASB or even the CSB.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239572#Comment_1239572

There is no snapshot that shows what you claim. Look at my original snapshot. MEV has asterisks instead of letters which are located on the left side of the verse instead of being next to the particular word. This is not the way the Publisher has them in their printing bibles.

Bill Anderson

You may want to consider striking out both your name and email address and the name and email address of the respondent to your email so that you both don't get spammed.

Levi Durfey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239575#Comment_1239575

This is not the way the Publisher has them in their printing bibles.

That is true...but In the print edition, there is a center column where the reader can look for the cross-references for a verse. Logos does not have a center-column, so they chose to use an asterisk to display the cross-references for that verse. It's the same cross-references, but implemented differently because of platform (print vs. electronic).

instead of being next to the particular word

Again, even in the print edition, the cross-references are NOT linked to words. They are linked to verses—Logos would have to develop their own cross-reference system for the MEV to do what you want.

Dan Cleghorn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239571#Comment_1239571

I prefer the asterick before the verse. In my Bible reading this morning, out of my first eight verses, seven of them have astericks linking to fourteen verses.

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239582#Comment_1239582

The NKJV or the NASB uses letters that are linked to the word or phrase in a particular verse; it makes it so much easier to discover where else I can find a verse that is linked to this reference. In many instances, there are several letters in one single verse with its accompanying cross-references. The MEV has only one asterisk per verse which forces you to find out which are they referring to.

This has been poorly done besides the fact that the MEV has so much fewer cross-references/footnotes in number compared to the NKJV or any of the major translations.

I don't know who is at fault here, but of course the MEV Publisher (Charisma) is putting the responsibility on Logos. I will wait for an official response from Logos before I can go further or abandon the whole thing and pick a different translation.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239584#Comment_1239584

The NKJV or the NASB uses letters that are linked to the word or phrase in a particular verse; it makes it so much easier to discover where else I can find a verse that is linked to this reference. In many instances, there are several letters in one single verse with its accompanying cross-references. The MEV has only one asterisk per verse which forces you to find out which are they referring to.

This difference is in how the publisher handled it in the print copy and the file they sent to FL? You have a screen shot of the printed version; the Logos MEV corresponds to the printed version screen shot. What is done by other publishers or by the same publisher in different resources is totally irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how this publisher handled it in this resource and that Logos follow the printed text.

I don't know who is at fault here

There is no fault for anyone. Charisma decided how to publish it and Logos replicated Charisma's choice. That is exactly how it is supposed to work.

But you are not alone re:xref quantity. From a review:

The Modern English Version (MEV) a Curious and Surprising Translation. – Snyder's Soapbox (snyderssoapbox.com)">The text is arranged in a typical double column format with center column references. There are not as many cross references as I’d like to see.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239587#Comment_1239587

I'm not familiar with the MEV, and I keep misreading the topic line as the "MEH translation"... which is honestly a lot of them

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239563#Comment_1239563

You must be joking.

Because I stated it was "relatively well endowed" with cross-references?

If it is clearly lacking, why not use the MEV for what you seem to value in that translation and use other translations for their footnotes and cross-references?

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239587#Comment_1239587

I understand what you are saying, and you are of course 100% correct. I related your information to the Publisher, and they admitted that they have three editions of the MEV where the last one contains an extended number of cross-references. They said that they probably sent the one with the least number of cross-references which they will correct and send the update to Logos.

Thank you for helping me understand,

Joseph

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239587#Comment_1239587

Thank you for helping me understand,

Joseph

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239611#Comment_1239611

I have been doing that for the past two years, however, the Publisher of the MEV admitted their mistake, and will be sending an update with a more comprehensive number of cross-references.

I love the way the MEV reads. It is so beautiful that I dropped the NASB 1995 for this one.

God bless.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239611#Comment_1239611

I was curious about this so I pulled up the MEV and the Fire Bible. The Fire Bible can be readily linked to the MEV and you have a handy go-to that way. I would consider simply using this combo with the passage guide which can give you way more cross-references to work with.

You can cobble together you favorite references, link them, and then save the layout as your go-to. Logos makes this easy enough. I recognize the deficiency you speak of but they are at least a half dozen ways to powerhouse your cross-referencing and just pop it open however you like it.

The Fire Bible is quite good. I hadn't been using it, but I think I will now. So thank you. I hope my suggestions will help you too.[8-|]

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239763#Comment_1239763

I don't understand, Logos doesn't have the Fire Bible edition, how am I going link the basic MEV with something I don't have?

Please elaborate. Thanks.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239843#Comment_1239843

Logos doesn't have the Fire Bible edition

Fire Bible: Global Study Edition | Logos Bible Software Are either of you referring to this ... or to another resource?

Joseph Luna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239849#Comment_1239849

I checked that resource already; it is not the MEV Fire Bible, and it wouldn't cost that much even if Logos had it.

Anyway, thanks for checking my friend. ]

Joseph

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1239965#Comment_1239965

I checked that resource already; it is not the MEV Fire Bible,

Given that Donald Stamps died in 1991, I assume you are referring to the contributions of J. Wesley Adams? The Fire Bible itself, seems to be available with a variety of translations (ESV, KJV, NIV, MEV, NLT) and the edition to which Adams contributed seems not to have led to reviews or comparisons to previous editions. What are the differences between the pre-Adams editions and the Adams editions? I'm not sure the price is an indicator unless you know something about the licensing agreements of the publisher.

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