Lexicon
I do not have the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology and Exegesis and BDAG in my library but I want to do a better job of doing word studies. What resources do you recommend?
Comments
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You will get recommendations for BDAG!
Dave
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Christian Alexander said:
I do not have the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology and Exegesis and BDAG in my library but I want to do a better job of doing word studies. What resources do you recommend?
Well, what DO you have? I would consider the books you mentioned to be foundational, but what do you have access to?
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Louw-Nida https://www.logos.com/product/199/greek-english-lexicon-of-the-new-testament-based-on-semantic-domains is very useful. But, if you are having to choose between one or the other BDAG is most important.
Edit: I have DBL Greek, which comes bundled with Hebrew and Aramaic, https://www.logos.com/product/231186/dictionary-of-biblical-languages-with-semantic-domains-dbl-hebrew-aramaic-and-greek prioritized second after BDAG. It is available inexpensively in a Legacy Library logos-5-reformed-starter-legacy-library
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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Mal, you're terrible (joking). You better get back to natural law (more difficult).
Just to illustrate, my prioritization of greek lexicons:
Lampe > MM > LSJ > Sophicles > TDNT > BDAG > NT-Analytic
The reason is I already know what BDAG's going to say (yawn), and when I right-click, I want to quickly see everybody ELSE.
But my favorite is Spicq. You can sit for hours just reading Spicq.
In honor of your natural law quest, a bit of Spicq:
"hyperēphania, exaltation, pride, haughtiness; hyperēphanos, lifted up, exalted, proud, haughty
The commonly accepted etymology (hyper + phainomai: someone who shows himself to be above his fellows, elevated) no longer seems acceptable, even if it is taken to mean “visible above others,”2 all the more so since the seat of hyperēphania is within us. The proud person has a heart that is puffed up,4 compares himself to others and reckons that he is above them, scorns them (Ps 30:19, exoudenōsis); the opposite is the tapeinos. Moreover, the hyperēphanos is constantly associated with the hybristēs and the alazōn. These data suggest that we should examine the semantics of these terms circumspectly .... "
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Your approach and mine are different. You're a student of the historical and etymologic settings of the language which I hope to at some point attain. Whereas I am just looking to read NT Greek. In this setting, not considering the OP's request, what is your opinion of "BrillDAG"?DMB said:Mal, you're terrible (joking). You better get back to natural law (more difficult).
Just to illustrate, my prioritization of greek lexicons:
Lampe > MM > LSJ > Sophicles > TDNT > BDAG > NT-Analytic
The reason is I already know what BDAG's going to say (yawn), and when I right-click, I want to quickly see everybody ELSE.
But my favorite is Spicq. You can sit for hours just reading Spicq.
In honor of your natural law quest, a bit of Spicq:
"hyperēphania, exaltation, pride, haughtiness; hyperēphanos, lifted up, exalted, proud, haughty
The commonly accepted etymology (hyper + phainomai: someone who shows himself to be above his fellows, elevated) no longer seems acceptable, even if it is taken to mean “visible above others,”2 all the more so since the seat of hyperēphania is within us. The proud person has a heart that is puffed up,4 compares himself to others and reckons that he is above them, scorns them (Ps 30:19, exoudenōsis); the opposite is the tapeinos. Moreover, the hyperēphanos is constantly associated with the hybristēs and the alazōn. These data suggest that we should examine the semantics of these terms circumspectly .... "
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Whereas I am just looking to read NT Greek. In this setting, not considering the OP's request, what is your opinion of "BrillDAG"?
Some like Brill. It's targeted to a more 'secular' audience, and tends to 'park' if you will, in a greek world approximating late Second Temple (though coverage is much wider). Personally, I think LSJ is better for that period, though it's not the latest scholarship.
BDAG is aimed at the Christian market. It nails down sense (which I try to avoid, before researching; most Logosians like the nailing). Includes etymological information. And usually quite wordy.. 'Industry' standard for quoting.
Danker's 'recent' addition is interesting; I've been 'watching'. Concise version in Logos. Though I suppose the Logos Sense Lexicon would be better.
I'm not a language-lady. More along the lines of psychology. How did they communicate what amounts to culture. If you lived in central Galatia along the Roman road crossing greek > semitic, would you have a clue what Paul was saying .... the greek? What assumptions would you need?
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I agree.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I'd like to tag on to this conversation too as I am also thinking about this area.
Out of these three resources what would recommend?
A Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (NT) - OWNED
New Strong's Dictionary of Hebrew and Greek Words - NOT OWNED
Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words - NOT OWNED
I know people will probably recommend BDAG but $200 Candian is to expensive at the moment.
I might add, I'm really just trying to understand the meaning of the Greek words and the tence, etc. I'm not a Greek scholar
Many thanks,
Matt
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Just out of personal interest, one lexicon in many L9 and L10 packages is the Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (https://www.logos.com/product/197493/lexham-research-lexicon-of-the-greek-new-testament ) but I haven't seen it mentioned in this discussion.
I'd think it would be a solid supplementary lexicon to note in conversations like this. I mean, I know it isn't DMB's cup of tea ([:D]) but I'm wondering what others might think, or if there is a reason why you wouldn't recommend it in a discussion like this.
Have you used it? Do you like it? Do you hate it? What is good about it and what is bad? What is it missing?
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Because I don't know Greek, my lexicons are prioritized for being able to duplicate problems reported in the forums. When I open one for my own use it is almost always Beekes, Robert. Etymological Dictionary of Greek, edited by Alexander Lubotsky. Vol. 1 & 2. Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary Series. Leiden; Boston: Brill, 2010. because I have considerably more Indo-European than Greek credit.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:
Just out of personal interest, one lexicon in many L9 and L10 packages is the Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (https://www.logos.com/product/197493/lexham-research-lexicon-of-the-greek-new-testament ) but I haven't seen it mentioned in this discussion.
Actually, I took a look at it (again) before posting originally. And tried to imagine the scenarios the OP would face. I admit being wrong, but I imagined it wouldn't carry him very far as he usually likes to go. It's quick answers, carefully arranged. Confirming I'm likely wrong, but I thought the Sense Lexicon would be closer to his needs (moves back and forth across hebrew, greek, and english, cross-ref'd, which he'd earlier discussed).
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Matt Leonard said:
Out of these three resources what would recommend?
A Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (NT) - OWNED
New Strong's Dictionary of Hebrew and Greek Words - NOT OWNED
Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words - NOT OWNED
Well, you already have Swanson. Are you seriously married to Strong's numbers? As in the other thread, you'll eventually thrive on the greek ... it'll seep into your consciousness, using Logos! I agree numbers look simpler.
Of the two, you might find Vine's easier. Even though it's indexed by Strongs, you can also call up words in both english, as well as hebrew and greek. Articles are lengthy. It's an old favorite and using it, it might help you move into greek too!
New Strongs is listed by a transliterated greek and hebrew. You can call up Strongs but you need to already know the number. If indeed your studying progresses, you won't like the format of transliteration, short listings, etc.
I use another of Strongs; the Guide to Bible Words. I mainly use it to catch Biblical english, that my Concise Oxford Dictionary doesn't catch. I might switch over to a Vines for that.
But ... if you're willing to instead consider a greek lemma type lexicon, you'll have better choices! The one Rick mentions is quite good for what you're seeming to want.
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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:
Just out of personal interest, one lexicon in many L9 and L10 packages is the Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (https://www.logos.com/product/197493/lexham-research-lexicon-of-the-greek-new-testament ) but I haven't seen it mentioned in this discussion.
I'd think it would be a solid supplementary lexicon to note in conversations like this. I mean, I know it isn't DMB's cup of tea (
) but I'm wondering what others might think, or if there is a reason why you wouldn't recommend it in a discussion like this.Have you used it? Do you like it? Do you hate it? What is good about it and what is bad? What is it missing?
Rick
Yes I have used the Research Lexicon and it is wonderful but it is not always comprehensive. I need something that is comprehensive. The item delivers a good up-to-date interpretive style but for me I am a comprehensive man. I’ve enjoyed the Louw and Nida volume for years and can remember in my training to use lexicons. The Bible Sense Lexicon is this great tool that provides a cross-linguistic sense analysis of every instance of every noun, verb, adjective, and adverb in the Hebrew Bible and the Greek New Testament. I always start with a lemma. Is that a bad idea?
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I know Greek well. I have had 7 semesters of it. I have the DBL. Lexham Research lexicons, Thayer's, LSJ, Louw and Nida, Lexham analytical lexicons, TLOT, TLNT, TDNT, and An Etymological Glossary of Nearly 2,500 English Words in Common Use Derived from the Greek by Edward Jacob Boyce to name a few. What of these are the most compressive?
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Christian Alexander said:
I know Greek well. I have had 7 semesters of it.
What lexicons did you use during your 7 semesters of Greek? Seems like you would have familiarized yourself with many of these resources during your studies. Someone else may be able to summarize each of these resources or advise you on this matter further.
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John Fidel said:
What lexicons did you use during your 7 semesters of Greek? Seems like you would have familiarized yourself with many of these resources during your studies.
Agree; why not just look at them (among others too).
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I have used LSJ, Thayer's, Lexham, and DBL. But my current professor said these were unacceptable and inferior to BDAG and TDNT. Why?
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My professors always used the concise BDAG and the updated LSJ which they mentioned Logos did not have. I am not sure why.
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Why don't you ask them why?
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I have and they did not ever respond.
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DMB said:
Mal, you're terrible (joking). You better get back to natural law (more difficult).
[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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Christian Alexander said:
Yes I have used the Research Lexicon and it is wonderful but it is not always comprehensive.
Can you please define "comprehensive" in context here? I'm not sure I understand what you think is missing and want to better understand your usage cases.
Christian Alexander said:I always start with a lemma. Is that a bad idea?
If you're looking for information on a word, then the lemma is a good place to start in Logos.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0
