Can anyone help me
Can anyone help me find a resource(s) that deals with all the NT missing verses but specifically, from the eye of textual criticism/analysis?
For example, the famous John 5.4 verse. In some versions it's included in others it's not.
Or, how would I do a search for all the NT manuscript variances?
mm.
Comments
-
This resource will help you on NT Manuscripts. https://www.logos.com/features/interactives/exploring-new-testament-manuscripts Metzger's Textual Commentary https://www.logos.com/product/2190/a-textual-commentary-on-the-greek-new-testament will be helpful. This volume is designed to serve as a companion to the United Bible Societies' Greek New Testament. Here is a good how to article. https://www.logos.com/how-to/study-nt-mss
0 -
This text of 5:3b–4 is omitted by GNT with an A rating, indicating that the omission is certain. Manuscripts that include these words are followed by KJV. A few translations include these words but enclose them in brackets or other symbols to indicate that their inclusion is doubtful
Ronald Trail, An Exegetical Summary of John 1–9, Exegetical Summaries (Dallas, TX: SIL International, 2013), 213.
0 -
Milkman said:
Can anyone help me find a resource(s) that deals with all the NT missing verses but specifically, from the eye of textual criticism/analysis?
For example, the famous John 5.4 verse. In some versions it's included in others it's not.
Or, how would I do a search for all the NT manuscript variances?
mm.
This is a good resource to use- https://www.logos.com/product/45374/new-testament-text-and-translation-commentary
0 -
Milkman said:
Can anyone help me find a resource(s) that deals with all the NT missing verses but specifically, from the eye of textual criticism/analysis?
Well, modern scholars would ask for a book on added verses!
But I'd recommend this volume:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OICNA1W/
It's only a $1, and if you read it, you won't finish it ... I'm chugging along at p65.
But regardless of ones affinity to the KJV or Majority text (or the Egyptian Ecclectic), it discusses in detail the offended logic of picking 'this' over 'that'. The same problem occurs with the Massoretic vs LXX text. What exactly is the decision support logic.
0 -
It depends what you want. As you’ve been on these forums for a long time you’ve probably already got the helpful Metzger commentary referred to above in a base package. If you want data on textual variants, then you need a New Testament Apparatus (NA28 is available and is more complete than SBL apparatus). The CNTTS database also sets out a pretty comprehensive picture of New Testament textual variants.
This is the link to CNTTS - https://www.logos.com/product/32501/center-for-new-testament-textual-studies-new-testament-critical-apparatus CNTTS or an apparatus isn’t much help, though, without some understanding of textual criticism.Philip Comfort also has a helpful book which is available in Logos - Encountering the Manuscripts: An introduction to New Testament Palaeography and Textual Criticism - here is the link - sorry I’m on an iPad and the link button isn’t enabled so I’ve just pasted in the whole link: https://www.logos.com/product/7449/encountering-the-manuscripts-an-introduction-to-new-testament-paleography-and-textual-criticism
0 -
Mounce has a website where he lists and discusses “the seventeen verses and two paragraphs that were added to the Greek text used by the King James version of the Bible”
Matt 17:21; Matt 18:11; Matt 23:14; Mark 7:16; Mark 9:44, 46; Mark 11:26; Mark 15:28; Mark 16:9–20; Luke 17:36; Luke 23:17; John 5:3b–4; John 7:53–8:11; Acts 8:37; Acts 15:34; Acts 24:6b–8a; Acts 28:29; 1 John 5:7b-8a; Rom 16:24
https://missingbibleverses.com/missing-verses Mounce
see also
http://textus-receptus.com/wiki/List_of_Omitted_Bible_Verses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations
You could look up those verses in these textual commentaries:
Omanson, A Textual Guide to the Greek New Testament
https://www.logos.com/product/17844/a-textual-guide-to-the-greek-new-testament
Metzger, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament
https://www.logos.com/product/2190/a-textual-commentary-on-the-greek-new-testament
Comfort, New Testament Text and Translation Commentary
https://www.logos.com/product/45374/new-testament-text-and-translation-commentary
You can find a lot of those verses by searching for the phrase “omit verse” in those three books, but that search won’t find everything, such as the longer ending of Mark, though they discuss it.0 -
Thanks Christian! I picked up the books you had mentioned and with my Perks of the Month I also got this, Mobile Ed: NT308 The Reliability of New Testament Manuscripts (1 hour course)
mm.
0 -
Thanks, Kenneth, picked it up.
mm.
0 -
Thanks, GregW! the first book is just over my pay-grade, well a lot over [:)]. However, I did pick up the other one.
Yes, I did already have Metzger's book and this one, A Textual Guide to the Greek New Testament by Roger Omanson.
thanks again.
mm.
GregW said:It depends what you want. As you’ve been on these forums for a long time you’ve probably already got the helpful Metzger commentary referred to above in a base package. If you want data on textual variants, then you need a New Testament Apparatus (NA28 is available and is more complete than SBL apparatus). The CNTTS database also sets out a pretty comprehensive picture of New Testament textual variants.
This is the link to CNTTS - https://www.logos.com/product/32501/center-for-new-testament-textual-studies-new-testament-critical-apparatus CNTTS or an apparatus isn’t much help, though, without some understanding of textual criticism.Philip Comfort also has a helpful book which is available in Logos - Encountering the Manuscripts: An introduction to New Testament Palaeography and Textual Criticism - here is the link - sorry I’m on an iPad and the link button isn’t enabled so I’ve just pasted in the whole link: https://www.logos.com/product/7449/encountering-the-manuscripts-an-introduction-to-new-testament-paleography-and-textual-criticism
0 -
Thanks, RHC. Those are some good references you gave. Nice, neat and tidy. As to the textual commentaries, I now have them in my library.
thanks, again,
mm.
RHC said:Mounce has a website where he lists and discusses “the seventeen verses and two paragraphs that were added to the Greek text used by the King James version of the Bible”
Matt 17:21; Matt 18:11; Matt 23:14; Mark 7:16; Mark 9:44, 46; Mark 11:26; Mark 15:28; Mark 16:9–20; Luke 17:36; Luke 23:17; John 5:3b–4; John 7:53–8:11; Acts 8:37; Acts 15:34; Acts 24:6b–8a; Acts 28:29; 1 John 5:7b-8a; Rom 16:24
https://missingbibleverses.com/missing-verses Mounce
see also
http://textus-receptus.com/wiki/List_of_Omitted_Bible_Verses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations
You could look up those verses in these textual commentaries:
Omanson, A Textual Guide to the Greek New Testament
https://www.logos.com/product/17844/a-textual-guide-to-the-greek-new-testament
Metzger, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament
https://www.logos.com/product/2190/a-textual-commentary-on-the-greek-new-testament
Comfort, New Testament Text and Translation Commentary
https://www.logos.com/product/45374/new-testament-text-and-translation-commentary
You can find a lot of those verses by searching for the phrase “omit verse” in those three books, but that search won’t find everything, such as the longer ending of Mark, though they discuss it.0 -
I've always found the notes from the NET helpful. Here's an example from John 5:4
tc The majority of later mss (C3 Θ Ψ 078 f1, 13 𝔐) add the following to 5:3: “waiting for the moving of the water. 5:4 For an angel of the Lord went down and stirred up the water at certain times. Whoever first stepped in after the stirring of the water was healed from whatever disease which he suffered.” Other mss include only v. 3b (Ac D 33 lat) or v. 4 (A L it). Few textual scholars today would accept the authenticity of any portion of vv. 3b–4, for they are not found in the earliest and best witnesses (𝔓66, 75 א B C* T pc co), they include un-Johannine vocabulary and syntax, several of the mss that include the verses mark them as spurious (with an asterisk or obelisk), and because there is a great amount of textual diversity among the witnesses that do include the verses. The present translation follows NA in omitting the verse number, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations.
0 -
Thanks. I have yet to get the NET. Looks interesting.
mm.
Ronald Quick said:I've always found the notes from the NET helpful. Here's an example from John 5:4
tc The majority of later mss (C3 Θ Ψ 078 f1, 13 𝔐) add the following to 5:3: “waiting for the moving of the water. 5:4 For an angel of the Lord went down and stirred up the water at certain times. Whoever first stepped in after the stirring of the water was healed from whatever disease which he suffered.” Other mss include only v. 3b (Ac D 33 lat) or v. 4 (A L it). Few textual scholars today would accept the authenticity of any portion of vv. 3b–4, for they are not found in the earliest and best witnesses (𝔓66, 75 א B C* T pc co), they include un-Johannine vocabulary and syntax, several of the mss that include the verses mark them as spurious (with an asterisk or obelisk), and because there is a great amount of textual diversity among the witnesses that do include the verses. The present translation follows NA in omitting the verse number, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations.
0
