"An American Muslim Guide to the Art and Life of Preaching"
I don't think this book should be sold by Faithlife, a Christian company, since it's a book about preaching Islam and the Quran to Muslims.
An American Muslim Guide to the Art and Life of Preaching
https://www.logos.com/product/244288/an-american-muslim-guide-to-the-art-and-life-of-preaching
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Agreed. Not a book Faithlife should be offering. Gotta draw the line somewhere.
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Thank you for bringing this book to my attention; I have pre-ordered it at your suggestion. You did notice, I assume, that it is an eBook from a major Christian publisher. It is part of the cultural milieu in which Christian chaplains operate and of which they need to be aware. Please don't even think about blocking access to this book for others who are interested. It may not be useful in your neck of the woods but Faithlife is global. It can be very useful to military and hospital chaplains. [Yes, my niece is married to a Canadian military chaplain; I have some concrete knowledge from which I speak ... a wee bit of knowledge but actual knowledge not speculation.]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Gary Osborne said:
Gotta draw the line somewhere.
Yeah, I know ... that's why I haven't requested any Medieval grimoires despite their being an interesting historical application of Christian concepts.[:#]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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RHC said:
While the book is clearly written for Muslim preachers and Islamic preaching, many of the insights in the book could easily apply to preaching in Christian or other settings. Reflecting on a theology of the spoken word in the Islamic tradition, Martin Nguyen remarks that the sermon in and of itself is not automatically worthy of praise. Rather, its value for the life of faith is measured by its message, its mode of delivery, and the model of living that accompanies it. An appendix to the book includes a collection of duʿāʾs, or supplicatory prayers, that were composed and delivered by women from the Princeton Muslim Life Community.
MJ. Smith said:It is part of the cultural milieu in which Christian chaplains operate and of which they need to be aware.
Thankful for many Christian chaplains serving inside prisons [:D]
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Some Christian booksellers are refusing to sell the book.
The book’s primary purpose is “How to Preach the Quran and Islam to Muslims” and uses the Quran and Islamic beliefs to help Muslims to grow in the light of the Quran. Contrast Faithlife’s mission statement: “We use technology to equip the Church to grow in the light of the Bible. This is the mission behind everything we make—from Bible software, to Christian books, to mobile apps, and more”
There’s a big difference between Faithlife’s selling the Quran or ANE texts for reference purposes and selling a book written by two believing Muslims which encourages the reader to undergo spiritual formation by the Quran and Islamic beliefs in order to better preach the Quran and Islamic beliefs to Muslims, complete with sample Islamic supplicatory prayers to help the reader live the Muslim life.
It’s not surprising that Fortress Press is an imprint of the Christian publisher “1517 Media”. So is Beaming Books, which published “Still Stace: My Gay Christian Coming-of-Age Story.” Faithlife chose not to sell that book.
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/209579.aspx?PageIndex=1I don’t know if Faithlife will cancel the pre-pub, but I think they should for the reasons I’ve mentioned.
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RHC said:
Some Christian booksellers are refusing to sell the book.
Some Christian booksellers refuse to sell books of denominations they dislike. Most refuse to sell perennial philosophy books. Few sell interfaith books. None sell books compatible with the Logos eco-system. Having to purchase books outside of Logos/Verbum decreases their value for study.
RHC said:It’s not surprising that Fortress Press
Augsburg/Fortress Press is the publishing arm of a major Lutheran denomination. It is best known for its publication of monographs/commentaries on Biblical texts and for a couple of major liturgical authors. To the best of my knowledge, the other imprints of the parent company are less explicitly tied to a major Christian denomination, one in which my daughter-in-law is a pastor.
RHC said:So is Beaming Books, which published “Still Stace: My Gay Christian Coming-of-Age Story.” Faithlife chose not to sell that book.
WARNING: Personal opinion formed from many unreferenced Logos/Verbum resources:
Faithlife was pushed into dropping that book by a small and vocal group of users; in most cases where this happens, the vocal group has not actually read the book. Reading the book is, for me, a necessary prerequisite for having an opinion about the book's value. That particular book I have not read. An example of a useful book that some wished to suppress is at A Review as promised in "Vulgar title on prepub" - Logos Forums (Vulgar title on prepub - Logos Forums). I strongly, very strongly, believe that Logos should serve ALL Christians. I also believe that we, as CHRISTIAN users of Logos, should actively encourage the company to produce materials for the world-wide church, not just the American Church. I firmly believe, and hope others do as well, that the free exchange of ideas among Christians in the context of being able to study and evaluate those ideas through the Logos platform, will slowly decrease the divisions with the community of those who call themselves "Christian". I have never found the refusal to read and listen to be a road to mutual respect and understanding. As for the potential of some books to corrupt believers, I find that is more likely in pulp writing than in more academic books ... and I trust that those with that concern are not the market for How to Preach the Quran and Islam to Muslims. Those for whom this book is of interest deserve the right to read it. Most others will never know of its existence as I did not until you brought it to my attention.
Related Logos resources that illustrate how Logos helps us exam disagreements such as this.:
[quote]
Since the days of Groen van Prinsterer, the Anitrevolutionary Party has always stood up for free speech whenever it was attacked.7 In doing so it was fighting for a Dutch way of thinking,8 for—as Professor Fruin9 observed more than thirty years ago—nothing is so deeply lodged in the Dutch consciousness as the urge, the need, to speak freely and frankly and not to spare even the highest in the state in its critique. There was no other country in the world where pamphleteering was freer. And even the origin of cartoons, which in precarious moments can say so much, is in part Dutch.
Especially since the rise of Calvinism, “free speech” has generally become commonplace here. Yet, Calvinism lost a good deal of its credibility when it sought to stifle free speech with a policy of strictly censoring books.
Still today, the tendency to say everything that comes to mind continues to be active in all kinds of circles among our people.
Abraham Kuyper, On Charity & Justice, ed. Matthew J. Tuininga, Jordan J. Ballor, and Melvin Flikkema, Abraham Kuyper Collected Works in Public Theology (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press; Acton Institute, 2022), 221–222.[quote]
17. Censorship and propaganda
At the opposite extreme from Western societies, in which the communications media are very free and subject to little or no moral authority or censorship, totalitarian societies sin against the truth in the opposite way, by censoring truth and broadcasting false propaganda for political purposes. “Moral judgment must condemn the plague of totalitarian states which systematically falsify the truth,” [and] “exercise political control of opinion through the media” (CCC 2499), whether this is done under communism, right-wing dictatorship, Muslim fundamentalism, or even democracy. (Is it only “totalitarian states” that falsify and try to control opinion through the media?)
18. The media“Within modern society the communications media play a major role in information, cultural promotion, and formation” [of opinion, mind, and character]. “This role is increasing, as a result of technological progress” (CCC 2493). Since their power to mold minds is increasing, the real moral responsibility of the media is also increasing.
Peter Kreeft, Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism of Catholic Beliefs Based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2001), 275–276.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I’m not trying to censor books, stifle free speech, or block people from reading the book if they want to read it. The book can be easily bought on Amazon or elsewhere, though I understand it's nice to have books on the Logos platform.
I already said why I think Faithlife’s selling the book goes against Faithlife’s stated mission. If Faithlife wants to sell books that teach people how to be spiritually formed by the Quran and Islamic beliefs in order to better preach the Quran and Islam to Muslims, then perhaps it should re-word its mission statement to reflect better its business practices.0 -
MJ. Smith said:
that particular book I have not read.
I read it, after all the hoopla. It was interesting, if also quite depressing (what people must go through, so Christians can feel good).
The book in this thread is interesting. Personally, I'd keep it (and any that teach other offending faiths) to understand why people 'sign on'. What's the key? Logos excels in theological slicing and dicing (which matters little to normal people), but has few titles on why people believe what they do.
Just coincidentally I'm continuing on the Jesus/Death book, and one curiosity was Paul's complaint, the Jews didn't sign-on ... to Jewish expositors. One surmises the reason(s), but only guesses picking up the strains of the Ebionites.
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RHC said:
I already said why I think Faithlife’s selling the book goes against Faithlife’s stated mission.
And I have said why I think it is well within Faithlife's stated mission as Christians live and minister in a multi-faith environment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The spiritual growth of the Church in the light of the Bible (Faithlife’s stated mission)
versus
The spiritual growth of Muslims in the light of the Quran (the book’s primary purpose)
are in opposition to each other.
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Not quite what I need in my research of Islam, but I’m intrigued by the sample.
I feel like it offers the Christian an insight into how Muslims view things different than we do.
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Verbum Max0 -
As for me.... I do not care to learn how to preach Islam in any shape fashion or form.... If Christ be true, I'll stick with that. Thank you very much. [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
As for me.... I do not care to learn how to preach Islam in any shape fashion or form.... If Christ be true, I'll stick with that. Thank you very much.
I‘ll stick to Christ as well… but learning about how Muslims see things differently than we do can help us reach out to them. St. Paul in Athens comes to mind here.
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Verbum Max0 -
I did four years of Classical Arabic in grad school (though little since.) I'm in favor of having materials that give culturally-native insight into aspects of the Islamic mindset. Too often, those outside— especially the former-, the ex-— give a distorted perspective.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Ben said:
I did four years of Classical Arabic in grad school (though little since.) I'm in favor of having materials that give culturally-native insight into aspects of the Islamic mindset. Too often, those outside— especially the former-, the ex-— give a distorted perspective.
I also prefer to read what a group says they believe to reading about how others describe the belief. There’s always the risk of misinterpretation in the second case.
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Verbum Max0 -
For those who DO want the book: I noticed that the pre-pub hasn't actually sent the book yet. So, I cancelled the pre-pub and just bought it from the website.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0
