New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge revised
I just noticed this is formerly coming out shortly in print and Kindle. Any chance Logos will put it out? It cost me next to nothing in the current form years back and I would spring for an update.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
Comments
-
+1
0 -
+1
0 -
👍😁👌
0 -
Posted to suggestions.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
The NTSK is one of my favorite resources. It is way more useful in Logos than it would be in print or Kindle. I hope they can make this work.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
0 -
I have seen the author comment here on the forums, so maybe he will drop in with additional information.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
0 -
I am the author, indeed. The publisher (Nelson) got in touch with me, expressing considerable regret that Nelson let this resource go out of print in 1999.
The new people said they intended to keep it in print from now on, for which I am most grateful.
I offered suggestions for improving the book. They encountered numerous anomalies when the Figure of Speech index was matched by computer with the text. They found problems I had no way back in the day of 5 1/4 " floppy disks to catch. Those are now all corrected.
I kept my own record of reference errors found during my use of the volume since its release in 1992. I spent many weeks last year entering my corrections for Nelson. The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is far more accurate than ever before.
The digital edition available in Logos lacks the very important Topic Number Index that is now available in this new edition.I, too, prefer accessing these cross references using a digital resource. But many individuals--from truck drivers to pastors to teachers in Christian schools--have told me that slowing down by using a printed book and a print Bible provides them a very different Bible study experience. Though cumbersome, I agree, and notice it helps to see more of the context than viewing the briefer content of a pop-up window upon mouse-over does.
1 -
How does this differ from the Ultimate Treasury of Scripture Knowledge?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
DAL said:
The Ultimate is the only newest version, there isn’t a revised version of the one he mentions.
Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Treasury-Scripture-Knowledge-easy-use/dp/0310143519/ book cover for $49.99 New does NOT have Ultimate:
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
DAL said:MJ. Smith said:
How does this differ from the Ultimate Treasury of Scripture Knowledge?
I think he’s confused. The Ultimate is the only newest version, there isn’t a revised version of the one he mentions.
DAL
He's the author. I'm sure he isn't confused about it.
I don't find any mention of anything called Ultimate Treasury of Scripture Knowledge anywhere online except this thread. There is something called "The Ultimate Cross-Reference Treasury" (note the different title) referenced in this thread. It's available only for eSword at this time.
0 -
Rosie Perera said:DAL said:MJ. Smith said:
How does this differ from the Ultimate Treasury of Scripture Knowledge?
I think he’s confused. The Ultimate is the only newest version, there isn’t a revised version of the one he mentions.
DAL
He's the author. I'm sure he isn't confused about it.
I don't find any mention of anything called Ultimate Treasury of Scripture Knowledge anywhere online except this thread. There is something called "The Ultimate Cross-Reference Treasury" (note the different title) referenced in this thread. It's available only for eSword at this time.
I meant Mab (OP) is confused. Jerome H. Smith is the name of the author (Unless mab is Jerome) 😁 or Jerome is related to MJ (Smith) 😁
DAL
0 -
As far as I can tell, the Amazon pictured version is supposed to be the latest and since that is coming out, we should be petitioning for that. FL ought to be pursuing what is readily available from the publisher.
There's practically no question people want this one. This is probably the one book, next to a good commentary and dictionary, that opens scripture for us.
Things get weird when they change titles. Very confusing.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
mab said:
As far as I can tell, the Amazon pictured version is supposed to be the latest and since that is coming out, we should be petitioning for that. FL ought to be pursuing what is readily available from the publisher.
There's practically no question people want this one. This is probably the one book, next to a good commentary and dictionary, that opens scripture for us.
Things get weird when they change titles. Very confusing.
Well, I think the use of the word “Ultimate” in other threads and e-sword had all of us confused 😂
0 -
DAL said:
Well, I think the use of the word “Ultimate” in other threads and e-sword had all of us confused
I think your original comment is correct (of course, like everyone, I don't know).
If you read Jerome's description of the revised, (1) print (went out of print 25 years ago), (2) errors found by publisher (corrected), (3) some other edits, and (4) added the topic index. That's not Ultimate.
Also if you look at the page counts (big-A) the new print is slightly smaller.
0 -
Actually, the print may be slightly larger! The page size of this new edition is equal to that of the Strong's Concordance, so more text fits on a page. As for errors caught, I think I caught more errors in my own use of this resource than anyone else did! Fortunately, I kept a careful record of them and incorporated the corrections in this new publication.
The new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge does not compare to The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury! I would guess that it would take multiple print volumes the size of the present new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge to contain it.0 -
Jerome Smith said:
The new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge does not compare to The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury! I would guess that it would take multiple print volumes the size of the present new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge to contain it.
We appreciate your participation on the forum!
Now ... when do we get the Ultimate?!! eSword are great guys, but we deserve it too!
0 -
Jerome Smith said:
The new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge does not compare to The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury! I would guess that it would take multiple print volumes the size of the present new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge to contain it.
I am sorry, but I am still confused. Please make is clear. What is the difference between TNTOSK and TUCRT? From your comments, one is contained in the other. Is TNTOSK contained in TUCRT, meaning the TUCRT is more complete or the other way around?
0 -
The Ultimate is the most complete
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Well... guess so's I'll just wait for the Ultimate... shucks!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
Mark said:
Which is why I don't understand why anyone cares about the NTSC revised.
While I have not seen it, I have the same concern about the Ultimate Edition as I have about many of the Logos passage lists ... does one study the Bible more effectively studying a few closely related passages intensively or studying many loosely related passages superficially? But then, I have a very jaundiced view of some steps in some Bible study methods - to me they seem to be designed so that the student can feel they have put an appropriate amount of time and energy into Bible study without fear that they might actually learn something.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
So we have TSK 1.0, 2.0 and the 3.0 called the Ultimate? Or just 1.0 and 2.0 called the revised?
0 -
In my library, I have TSK, NTSK, people are loudly requesting NTSKR (I am surprised this has not been brought into Logos but they have been on a make-our-own data spree), and some requests for the UTSK
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
In my library, I have TSK, NTSK, people are loudly requesting NTSKR (I am surprised this has not been brought into Logos but they have been on a make-our-own data spree), and some requests for the UTSK
So there’s 4 versions? TSK, NTSK, NTSKR and UTSK 😂😂😂 Just when I thought I had it all figured out 😂😂😂
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Mark said:
Which is why I don't understand why anyone cares about the NTSC revised.
While I have not seen it, I have the same concern about the Ultimate Edition as I have about many of the Logos passage lists ... does one study the Bible more effectively studying a few closely related passages intensively or studying many loosely related passages superficially?
This seems like a false dichotomy. I think the correct usage of a tool like this is to see a variety of cross references to identify the most important ones and then to study those more deeply.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
0 -
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Justin Gatlin said:
This seems like a false dichotomy. I think the correct usage of a tool like this is to see a variety of cross references to identify the most important ones and then to study those more deeply.
I think of it more as the law of diminishing returns. I agree that one should see a variety and identify the ones most fruitful to you to study more deeply. But I also see people using the same study tool over and over because they are comfortable with it, not because it serves their needs. But I know from experience that different groups and different people have different dynamics. I would definitely not claim my experience represents a universal.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Based on his own disclosures and statements, the author reveals information adequate to inform a decision to utilize in ones studies the currently available revision and expansion namely The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge: the classic revised and expanded; edition.
The most compelling reason to purchase and or support Logos offering this product is that the previously available version has been out of print for a number of years.
This can therefore rightly be viewed as a new edition. And for those who are in the habit of using this resource for Bible study, I see this as being a vital addition to your available tools to inform your inquiries of scripture.
Responding to something xnman states tongue in cheek and for all others who entertain his notion that because The Ultimate resource is by far the most complete and therefore one should wait for it to come to Logos, I say if you want it, it is available on E-sword. Furthermore, it does not seem that Logos is anxious to add The Ultimate to its catalogue.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Mark said:
Which is why I don't understand why anyone cares about the NTSC revised.
While I have not seen it, I have the same concern about the Ultimate Edition as I have about many of the Logos passage lists ... does one study the Bible more effectively studying a few closely related passages intensively or studying many loosely related passages superficially? But then, I have a very jaundiced view of some steps in some Bible study methods - to me they seem to be designed so that the student can feel they have put an appropriate amount of time and energy into Bible study without fear that they might actually learn something.
And maybe all that depends on your reason for studying in the first place.... For example... 1. If you just want to prove your own theology.. then you'll track resources and bible verses to do that. To me, that seems to be a narrow way of researching things... Or 2. You want to prove something no matter where it leads you and you are just seeking the conclusion of where the evidence does lead you.
I find most people are in category 1. They want to prove their ideology or theology and use the bible to support their assumptions. I just don't think the bible was written for us to do that. That puts me in category 2. let the evidence lead me on.... and let me base my thinking on that. If I am wrong, I will change.... but first I must prove me wrong....
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
Beloved Amodeo said:
Responding to something xnman states tongue in cheek and for all others who entertain his notion that because The Ultimate resource is by far the most complete and therefore one should wait for it to come to Logos, I say if you want it, it is available on E-sword. Furthermore, it does not seem that Logos is anxious to add The Ultimate to its catalogue.
I hear you man loud and clear! And the wait for the Ultimate may be more than I can bear. [:(]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
But I also see people using the same study tool over and over because they are comfortable with it, not because it serves their needs.
That seems to be a risk George pointed out many moons back ... in his case, interlinears. Convenience. I'm a big proponent of 'read the text' (ie know it). It is true, when you come across a ancient concept (eg washing the mouth = introducing the spirit), some type of connectivity is handy ... hard searches are often a mess.
Separately, I was looking at Jerome's discussion (his intro in the NTSK), which is quite interesting. He mentions Scott's Commentary as an early source of the references (along with English Polyglot Bible). So, of course, I had to see if the trusty Logos could speak to Scott's. And indeed.
An article from 1836 (the Association of Gentlemen in Princeton!):
"England continues to furnish many religious books for continental readers. The Rev. Mr. Bonson of Versailles is translating into French, Scott’s Commentary on the Bible. Pearson’s Life of Archbishop Leighton has appeared in German at Basle; and the Life of Joseph Williams of Kidderminster, in like manner at Stuttgart."
And some criticism of Scott's as well (Cyclopedia Vol 2 p430)
"The prevailing characteristic of Scott’s commentary is judiciousness in the opinions advanced. The greater portion of it, however, is not proper exposition. The pious author preaches about and paraphrases the original. His simplicity of purpose generally preserved him from mistakes; but as a commentator he was neither acute nor learned. He wanted a competent acquaintance with the original, power of analysis, a mind unprepossessed by a doctrinal system, and penetration of spirit."
Scott's apparently sort of timed out in the late 1800s, seems like.
0 -
At this point, it doesn’t make a difference if it ever makes it to Logos or not 😏
0 -
I think we would be well-served by having the current tools and applying them. If I thought any differently I wouldn’t be using Logos.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
FL will probably get this newer version, but I simply don’t hold my breath as to it. A given reference is going to appear in dozens of works in Logo. I just like the layout Smith uses as it’s more of a Swiss Army knife to the task.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
Mark raised the question above:
"I am sorry, but I am still confused. Please make is clear. What is the difference between TNTOSK and TUCRT? From your comments, one is contained in the other. Is TNTOSK contained in TUCRT, meaning the TUCRT is more complete or the other way around?"Others have also raised interesting questions.
After at least 26 years of pre-digital age meticulous Bible study using such resources in my personal Bible study (see the Bibliography in the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge and the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury), I compiled additional cross references in many of my wide-margin Bibles. I used these as my first basis of increasing the number of cross references given in the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.
The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge content was taken directly from Bagster's Comprehensive Bible. The cross references in the Comprehensive Bible were taken directly from the cross references supplied by Scott in Scott's Commentary and Bagster's Polyglot Bible. Scott's references were taken from the major Bibles available in his day with references supplied by Canne, Blayney, Browne and others.On page 25 of volume one of Scott's Commentary in a Postscript to the Preface, Scott states in his first paragraph:
"As the Marginal References formed no part of the original plan of this publication, but have, with very great labor, been added to the subsequent editions; it may be proper here to state some particulars respecting them."
Therefore, to suggest that there is any connection between the references and the opinions expressed by Scott in his commentary and elsewhere to which at least one commentator on this thread objected is mistaken.
My New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge was published in 1992. In the early 2000's Nelson Publisher desired a simplified version of the NTSK which would make for a smaller, shorter volume. I took over two years to produce the requested volume, published in 2007 under the title Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible. To compress the NTSK, I removed nearly all the notes, all the chapter headings, and all the symbols except for the "+" symbol, which means "find more here." I consolidated redundant cross references where these occurred to single main reference points designated by the "+" symbol. Thus, in compressing the NTSK I did not lose any of the cross reference connections found in the NTSK.
Perhaps about 2009 I came upon a discussion thread on the Internet where users of the e-Sword Bible software program were wishing it possible to have the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge in that software. They were especially interested in having more references to the Old Testament passages for the Sermon on the Mount. I joined in the discussion and indicated that I had been expanding the cross references beyond those I furnished for the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge for my own use in my personal Bible study.
In 2010 I began preparing a much more complete collection of cross references. I completed the process in 2016. This new work was titled The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury. After he completed processing and compiling my Word docx files into software format for e-Sword, Rick Meyers asked me, "Jerry, do you know how many cross references are in The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury?" I told him I had no idea, only that I knew there are now about 7000 references just in Psalm 119. He then told me my new work contains over 900,000 references!In 2022 I was contacted by Thomas Nelson Publishers. They requested my help in bringing The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge back in print. These new people at Nelson were astonished that the Publisher had allowed this reference work to go out of print about 1999. They said they intend to keep it in print from now on. I offered suggestions as to which printing should be the basis of any new edition so that my previous suggestions and corrections would be preserved. Then they discovered that my Figure of Speech Index did not fully match the content of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. They caught many problems and anomalies I had no way of spotting in the 1980s when I first produced the text and indexes on hundreds of 5 1/4" floppy disks! I spent many weeks last year resolving these issues and entering several hundred additional corrections I had marked in my copy of the 1992 edition across the whole text of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. Even the Name Index has been corrected with three or so names missed in my first compilation. So for some things, this new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is even more complete and accurate than The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury, though it does not have anywhere near the extensive content.
There is absolutely no way using Logos Bible software alone (minus my resource) that anyone could come up with anything approaching the extensive cross references I have hand-collected for over 50 years.
As for the usefulness of such cross references, perhaps no one has said it better than R. A. Torrey in his Introduction:"About twenty years ago I saw for the first time "The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge." I was interested in the book at once, and commenced to use it in my daily study of the Word of God. I went through book after book of the Bible, verse by verse, with the aid of "The Treasury." I found that it enabled me, better than all the commentaries, to come to a true knowledge of God's meaning.
"There is no other commentary on the Bible so helpful as the Bible itself. There is not a difficult passage in the Bible that is not explained and made clearer by other passages of the Bible, and this book is marvelously useful in bringing to light those other parts of the Bible that throw light upon the portion that is being studied."But not only does the book illuminate the dark places, it also emphasises the truth by bringing in a multitude of witnesses. It also greatly strengthens faith, for one cannot study his Bible with the aid of "The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge" without getting a deeper conviction of the unity of the entire Book. As he compares Scripture with Scripture and sees how what Paul says fits in to what Jesus said, and John said, and Peter said, and Isaiah said, and the Psalmist said; when he sees how every doctrine of the New Testament regarding Christ, His Divine-human nature, His holy character, His atoning death, and His resurrection, ascension, and coming again is enfolded in the types of the Pentateuch, Prophets, and Psalms, he becomes overwhelmingly convinced that the whole Bible has one real Author behind the many human authors. "The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge" enables one, not only to understand the Word, but to feed upon the Word."0 -
Jerome Smith said:
Therefore, to suggest that there is any connection between the references and the opinions expressed by Scott in his commentary and elsewhere to which at least one commentator on this thread objected is mistaken.
Sorry, Jerome. My comment spoke to the range of Logos's library. Even the mighty BDAG goes back to the same period, with various argumentative comments back then. And then, is not now.
We await the Ultimate!
0 -
Its here:
https://archive.org/details/the-ultimate-cross-reference-treasury-pdf
TRANSLATE withx
English
Arabic
Hebrew
Polish
Bulgarian
Hindi
Portuguese
Catalan
Hmong Daw
Romanian
Chinese Simplified
Hungarian
Russian
Chinese Traditional
Indonesian
Slovak
Czech
Italian
Slovenian
Danish
Japanese
Spanish
Dutch
Klingon
Swedish
English
Korean
Thai
Estonian
Latvian
Turkish
Finnish
Lithuanian
Ukrainian
French
Malay
Urdu
German
Maltese
Vietnamese
Greek
Norwegian
Welsh
Haitian Creole
Persian
// <![CDATA[
var LanguageMenu; var LanguageMenu_keys=["ar","bg","ca","zh-CHS","zh-CHT","cs","da","nl","en","et","fi","fr","de","el","ht","he","hi","mww","hu","id","it","ja","tlh","ko","lv","lt","ms","mt","no","fa","pl","pt","ro","ru","sk","sl","es","sv","th","tr","uk","ur","vi","cy"]; var LanguageMenu_values=["Arabic","Bulgarian","Catalan","Chinese Simplified","Chinese Traditional","Czech","Danish","Dutch","English","Estonian","Finnish","French","German","Greek","Haitian Creole","Hebrew","Hindi","Hmong Daw","Hungarian","Indonesian","Italian","Japanese","Klingon","Korean","Latvian","Lithuanian","Malay","Maltese","Norwegian","Persian","Polish","Portuguese","Romanian","Russian","Slovak","Slovenian","Spanish","Swedish","Thai","Turkish","Ukrainian","Urdu","Vietnamese","Welsh"]; var LanguageMenu_callback=function(){ }; var LanguageMenu_popupid='__LanguageMenu_popup';
// ]]>TRANSLATE with
// <![CDATA[
var intervalId = setInterval(function () { if (MtPopUpList) { LanguageMenu = new MtPopUpList(); var langMenu = document.getElementById(LanguageMenu_popupid); var origLangDiv = document.createElement("div"); origLangDiv.id = "OriginalLanguageDiv"; origLangDiv.innerHTML = "<span id='OriginalTextSpan'>ORIGINAL: "; langMenu.appendChild(origLangDiv); LanguageMenu.Init('LanguageMenu', LanguageMenu_keys, LanguageMenu_values, LanguageMenu_callback, LanguageMenu_popupid); window["LanguageMenu"] = LanguageMenu; clearInterval(intervalId); } }, 1);
// ]]>
0 -
xnman said:
I find most people are in category 1. They want to prove their ideology or theology and use the bible to support their assumptions.
In my ecumenical circle of friends (running highly Episcopalian with Lutherans close behind), I find the Bible read primarily as conversation time with God i.e. spiritual growth. I do know people who see the Bible as more of an instruction book / doctrinal book than most my friends. I think the difference in our experience is a testament to the breadth of Christianity that finds Logos useful.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:xnman said:
I find most people are in category 1. They want to prove their ideology or theology and use the bible to support their assumptions.
In my ecumenical circle of friends (running highly Episcopalian with Lutherans close behind), I find the Bible read primarily as conversation time with God i.e. spiritual growth. I do know people who see the Bible as more of an instruction book / doctrinal book than most my friends. I think the difference in our experience is a testament to the breadth of Christianity that finds Logos useful.
I'm in the 2nd group. I see the bible as God's instructions for us to be how He wants us to be. Maybe that's why I see Logos to be biased and somewhat limiting on the answers I look for.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
No offense xnman, but it is also your bias. That is just the way it is. We are cultural beings.
0 -
Jerome Smith said:
So for some things, this new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is even more complete and accurate than The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury, though it does not have anywhere near the extensive content.
Thanks for your very helpful comments on this thread. And of course for your tireless efforts to produce a resource that many find very helpful in their study of God's Word.
Let me ask, please, a follow up question. Is it possible that one day, the many updates that have completed TNTOSK may one day make its way into TUCRT?
Secondly, what would you say is the usefulness of the extensive content found in TUCRT as opposed to what is currently in TNTOSK?
0 -
MJ. Smith said:xnman said:
I find most people are in category 1. They want to prove their ideology or theology and use the bible to support their assumptions.
In my ecumenical circle of friends (running highly Episcopalian with Lutherans close behind), I find the Bible read primarily as conversation time with God i.e. spiritual growth. I do know people who see the Bible as more of an instruction book / doctrinal book than most my friends. I think the difference in our experience is a testament to the breadth of Christianity that finds Logos useful.
And still others might see it as both -- and yet even more than both. I purposely leave the last part of that sentence open because I don't pretend to know the depths of it by any means.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God. (Ps 90:2)
0 -
Crboone said:
And still others might see it as both -- and yet even more than both
Yes, I did not mean to imply that the positions I mentioned were either comprehensive or mutually exclusive.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
John Fidel said:
No offense xnman, but it is also your bias. That is just the way it is. We are cultural beings.
No offense taken or meant.
As to the cultural beings, I agree ... But, I "believe" that "culture" is a problem among religious people as they are all striving for their particular culture when the bible teaches, we must be "transformed" and "conformed" to the culture of Jesus. I believe the culture of Jesus is above all the cultures we strive after.
imho ....[8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
Mark said:Jerome Smith said:
So for some things, this new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is even more complete and accurate than The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury, though it does not have anywhere near the extensive content.
Thanks for your very helpful comments on this thread. And of course for your tireless efforts to produce a resource that many find very helpful in their study of God's Word.
Let me ask, please, a follow up question. Is it possible that one day, the many updates that have completed TNTOSK may one day make its way into TUCRT?
Secondly, what would you say is the usefulness of the extensive content found in TUCRT as opposed to what is currently in TNTOSK?
Thank you, Mark, for such perceptive questions!
(1) "Is it possible that one day, the many updates that have completed TNTOSK may one day make its way into TUCRT?"
Almost all of the corrections made in this new edition of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge are taken from The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury. Probably less than a dozen reference errors are newly corrected since I did The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury.The Figure of Speech Index in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge was greatly corrected from the same but newer Figure of Speech Index given in The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury. However, the Publisher found some errors, some lack of correspondence, some missing connections between what is listed in the Figure of Speech Index and what is provided in the text of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It took me six weeks to figure out how to correct these problems. They are now completely corrected in this new printing of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge (and, I presume, its Kindle version).
(2) "What would you say is the usefulness of the extensive content found in TUCRT as opposed to what is currently in TNTOSK?"
The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge even as it stands in the edition available in Logos Bible Software is still in the newly released printed and Kindle edition not so different from each other that the average occasional user of this resource would notice the differences between the two. A "power user" (like me) that uses The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge will probably appreciate the lack of wrong references present in my original work.
The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury is a greatly expanded version of The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It contains many more cross references, including for the New Testament all the reciprocal references (the inclusion for each verse all the references elsewhere in the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge that contain references to that verse). I completed this feature for all the prophets and minor prophets in the Old Testament, and for all the over 1800 verses listed in the "Key Verse Comparison Chart" of The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible which contains verses from every book of the Bible. From the Preface to that chart: "The verses were selected for their doctrinal importance and for their familiarity to readers of the Bible by a team of scholars, editors, and laity." The UCRT contains many more notes and associated bibliography restored from Bagster's Comprehensive Bible, as well as a corrected index to those philological and geographical, etc., notes. And much more, all detailed in the UCRT preface material.
Here is a sample comparison for Romans 15:7 from:Rom 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge:receive: Rom 14:1-3; Mat 10:40; Mar 9:37; Luk 9:48
as: Rom 5:2; Mat 11:28-30; Luk 15:2; Joh 6:37, Joh 13:34
to: Rom 15:9; Eph 1:6-8, Eph 1:12, Eph 1:18; 2Th 1:10-12The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge:
receive. Rom 12:10; *Rom 14:1-3; +*Mal 3:16; *Mat 10:40; Mat 25:40; *Mar 9:37-41; *Luk 9:48; Luk 10:38; Luk 10:39; Joh 13:34; *Act 9:26-28; *Act 11:25; Act 11:26; *Act 16:15; Act 17:7; +*2Co 6:9; Gal 6:1; Gal 6:2; Heb 13:1; Heb 13:2; +*1Pe 4:9; 1Pe 4:10; 1Jn 3:14; ?1 John 2 Jn10; ◐3Jn9; 3Jn10
one another. +Rom 12:5
as Christ. Rom 5:2; +*Mat 11:28-30; *Luk 15:2; Joh 1:38; Joh 1:39; ✓Joh 6:37; *Joh 13:34; Heb 2:11; Heb 11:16
to the glory. ver. *Rom 15:9; +Rom 3:23; *Eph 1:6-8; Eph 1:12; Eph 1:18; Php 2:11; *2Th 1:10-12Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible:
receive. Ro 12:10, 13. 14:1-3. 16:2. Ps 119:74. Mal +3:16. Mt 10:14, 15, 40-42. 18:5. 25:35, 40, 43, 45, 46. Mk 6:11. 9:37-41. Lk 9:5, 48. 10:8, 10, 38, 39. Jn 13:20, 34. Ac 9:26-28, 43. 11:25, 26. 16:15. 17:7. 2 Cor 6:9. 7:2, 15. Ga 6:1. Phil 2:29. Col 4:10. 1 J 3:14. 2 J 10. 3 J 8-10.
The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury:
receive, Rom 12:10; Rom 12:13; Rom 14:1-3; Rom 16:2, Psa 119:74, +Mal 3:16, Mat 10:14; Mat 10:15; Mat 10:40-42; Mat 18:5; Mat 25:35; Mat 25:40; Mat 25:43; Mat 25:45; Mat 25:46, Mar 6:11; Mar 9:37-41, Luk 9:5; Luk 9:48; Luk 10:8; Luk 10:10; Luk 10:38; Luk 10:39, Joh 13:20; Joh 13:34, Act 9:26-28; Act 9:43; Act 11:25; Act 11:26; Act 16:15; Act 17:7, 2Co 6:9; 2Co 7:2; 2Co 7:15, Gal 6:1, Php 2:29, Col 4:10, Phm 1:12; Phm 1:17, Heb 13:1-2, 1Pe +4:9-10, 1Jn 3:14, 2Jn 1:10, 3Jn 1:8-10,
one another, +Rom 12:5,
as Christ, Rom 5:2, Mat +11:28-30, Luk 9:11; Luk 15:2, Joh 1:38; Joh 1:39; Joh 6:37; Joh 13:34, Heb 2:11; Heb 11:16,
to the glory, ver, 9, +Rom 3:23, Eph 1:6-8; Eph 1:12; Eph 1:18, Php 2:11, 2Th 1:10-12
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Crboone said:
And still others might see it as both -- and yet even more than both
Yes, I did not mean to imply that the positions I mentioned were either comprehensive or mutually exclusive.
I should have better clarified: I understand you were speaking in terms of emphasis, and those emphases certainly do exist -- sometimes fairly exclusively of the other. So I thought it good just to "emphasize" they need not be so. [:)]
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God. (Ps 90:2)
0
