Resource Recomendation

First of all, I do not want to nor will I engage in a debate in these forums over the following issue. That being said...

We are a non-denominational church (Congregational Christian until the UCC merger in the 60's) that have Deacons but not Elders. We are moving toward adding Elders to our church structure.

I would like a resource that presents a balanced view from within the larger Body of Christ. I don't want something that will prove or disprove only one position. For example, I know that some hold to the idea that "Elder" was an honorary title, while some say that it is an office within the church. We are moving toward the latter, but I want to hear other views.

I have poked around the Logos site but found nothing. It does not have to be a separate resource. Perhaps someone knows of a resource that covers the issue but is not only about Elders, Deacons, etc.

Any ideas, Logos friends?

Jerry

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Steve Adams

did you look at: The Elders; Seniority within Earliest Christianity?

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/ELDERSCAMPBL

Mike Aubrey

Hi Jerry, I'd suggest checking the variety of articles in the Baker Dictionary of Theology -- the "See also" sections at the end of each article gives a nice trail of bread crumbs to related articles that will deal with the same or similar topic from a different perspective and often by a different author.

Praiser

did you look at: The Elders; Seniority within Earliest Christianity?

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/ELDERSCAMPBL

　Interesting, I didn't realize I had this resource... It is included in the Portfolio Package. Below is a partial Table of Contents the whole table is shown as samples on the resource page that Nancy provided the link to. Chapter Four: Paul and the Elders
The Fallacy of Idealism

1 Corinthians: Church Order or Order in Church?

Making the Synagogue in our Own Image?

Present but Peripheral?

Local Leadership in Pauline Churches

The Dynamics of the Term ‘The Elders’

The ‘Work’ and the Churches

Conclusions

Here is a clip from the beginning of Chapter Four:

"The starting point of this chapter is the surprising fact that Paul,¹ so far as we know, called no one ‘elder’, and yet within a generation of Paul’s death the term ‘elders’ was freely used in his churches. On the one hand, there is no mention of elders in the letters confidently ascribed to Paul by modern scholars.² On the other, we find references to them in the Pastorals (1 Tim 5:17–22; Tit 1:5), 1 Peter 5:1–5, 1 Clement (1:3, 21:6, 44:5, 47:6) and the letters of Ignatius (e.g. Eph 2:2; Mag 6:1; Trall 3:1; Smyrn 8). Luke takes it for granted that Paul appointed and dealt with elders in the churches he founded (Acts 14:23, 20:17). All these writings can be attributed without undue controversy to the years between 70 and 110 CE, and most of them are addressed to churches in the broad area of Paul’s evangelistic work: 1 Clement to Corinth, 1 Timothy to Ephesus, 1 Peter to churches in Galatia and Asia among others, while Ignatius writes to churches in Asia, including Ephesus again.
In none of these letters do we detect any sign that elders were an innovation or that their introduction had been in any way controversial. "

The book looks like an interesting read.

Also a search for "elders" in a collection of your Bible Dictionaries & Encyclopedias can come up with some information.

Praiser

You might also find Joe Miller's site of interest: http://www.morethancake.org/2008/11/elders-lead-a-healthy-family-the-future.html

EDIT: Also check the Logos Reading List within Logos4 or at http://topics.logos.com/Elder

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/161828#Comment_161828

EDIT: Also check the Logos Reading List within Logos4 or at http://topics.logos.com/Elder

[Y]

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/161833#Comment_161833

Wow. I am reminded again that Logos users are the best! Thanks everyone...

All of these are helpful. Kudos to Joe Miller for his excellent writing on the subject. Everyone should go over there and read his stuff.

Thank you again, and pray for our church. Everything is going great, but I want us to follow the Bible as closely as we can understand and apply.

Jerry

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/161766#Comment_161766

did you look at: The Elders; Seniority within Earliest Christianity?

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/ELDERSCAMPBL

Looks like a good resource. Does anyone know why a book with less than 400 pages would be $90?

Even contacting Logos sales directly did not bring it to a reasonable level (my opinion of course).

It just seems very high for a regular-length book.

Jerry

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/162883#Comment_162883

Looks like a good resource. Does anyone know why a book with less than 400 pages would be $90?

Even contacting Logos sales directly did not bring it to a reasonable level (my opinion of course).

It just seems very high for a regular-length book.

Jerry

It's a Biblical Studies monograph from a specialty imprint. Those books are almost always north of $50 and often more. It's apparently the price of the hardcover edition of the book. I agree it's not a reasonable price but this is the way a lot of academic works are priced.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/162883#Comment_162883

It just seems very high for a regular-length book.

Academic publishers like T&T Clark tend to price their books for university libraries rather than individuals. T&T Clark is actually pretty reasonable compared to other academic publishers (de Gruyter is far, far worse -- we're talking sometimes $400-$800 for a single volume).

The good news is that Logos' agreement with them, in this case, makes the book far more affordable as part of a collection:

http://www.logos.com/products/details/2848

If there are a couple volumes here that catch your interest, you can end up with a better deal.

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/162894#Comment_162894

Kevin - thanks for the clarification. I kind of figured something like that was the case. I also never thought Logos was jacking up the price. I was confident it was the publisher.

Michael - thanks to you as well. I did see that collection and it looks like I would maybe be able to use some of those things. However, the book budget is just about maxed out and I have several pre-pubs in the hopper.

Jerry