Greek Aorist Subjunctive
Can you tell me if this is correct?
Aorist indicative
The aorist does not describe a tense, but an aspect - namely, a punctual action. However, the aorist indicative is mostly used for the past tense. Therefore, it usually describes a point in the past that has occurred completely in itself, even if its effect continues into the present. This does not mean that something starts at a point in the past, but that something has arrived at a point in the past, that is completed, even if the result is still present. This means that the verb παρῆλθεν in 2 Corinthians 5:17 means that the old human nature has gone away once and for all in the past.
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PaNo
We should not debate issues of theology in the forums, which means that we will not advise you about the meaning of 2 Cor 5:17 though others may comment on the use of "aorist indicative".
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you for your inspiration! I did not want to alienate the purpose of the forum.
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3 things that will help in understanding any passage:
1. Who is talking? In the case of 2Co 5:17, it is Paul talking.
2. Whom are they talking to? Paul is talking to Christians in Corinth.
3. What are they talking about (context)? Paul is talking about and reminding the Christians at Corinth, that if the Spirit is living in you, then you will have "spiritual life" because of the Spirit who live in you.
Basically, Paul is reminding them of how they live now. He is not talking about the past and how they become Christians. Christians have the Spirit.
imho... [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
3 things that will help in understanding any passage:
Each point (up to the last ?) is within the Guidelines, but the rest is always IMHO and that is what you should not be doing.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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PaNo said:
Aorist indicative
Bible Search for lemma.g:παρέρχομαι@VA INTERSECTS morph.h:Va in LXX Swete finds 78 results where aorist tense translates a Hebrew QAL stem. Bible Search for lemma.g:παρέρχομαι@VA finds 108 results.
PaNo said:The aorist does not describe a tense, but an aspect - namely, a punctual action.
aorist — The aorist verb tense is used by the writer to present the action of a verb as a “snapshot” event. The verb’s action is portrayed simply and in summary fashion without respect to any process. In the indicative mood, the aorist usually denotes past time, while an aorist participle usually refers to antecedent time with respect to the main verb. Outside the indicative and the participle, the aorist does not indicate time.
Michael S. Heiser and Vincent M. Setterholm, Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology (Lexham Press, 2013; 2013).
qal — In Biblical Hebrew, ‘stem’ refers to the relationship of the verb’s subject to the action of the verb. That is, stems convey grammatical ‘voice’ relationships. The qal is the unmarked stem; it has no nuanced meaning per se. See GKC §§43-50; IBHS §22; BHRG §16.2; J.-M. §§41-50.
Michael S. Heiser and Vincent M. Setterholm, Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology (Lexham Press, 2013; 2013).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Dave Hooton said:xnman said:
3 things that will help in understanding any passage:
Each point (up to the last ?) is within the Guidelines, but the rest is always IMHO and that is what you should not be doing.
Not sure about what "Guidelines" you mean?
I understand what I think you mean.... but by the same token... the context of the Scripture is not opinion. Truth must prevail and in order for truth to prevail, IMHO.... then the context of the verse, in context with verses around it and in context with the chapter and in context with the testament is very important.
Otherwise... what we have is a "objective" bible being changed to be in "subjection" to the whims of man...???
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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PaNo said:
Can you tell me if this is correct?
Aorist indicative
Scholars disagree. I have had Greek professors (IN THE SAME SCHOOL) say aorist is/is not linguistically embedded with time.
I encourage you to continue to explore. The verse you are questioning starts with a verbless clause, then uses an aorist indicative (not subjunctive as the title of this thread suggests), then a perfect indicative. What level of condition exists in the first clause? Why does Paul change tense between παρῆλθεν and γέγονεν
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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xnman said:
Not sure about what "Guidelines" you mean?
Forum Guidelines, which I applied in my response to PaNo.
xnman said:the context of the Scripture is not opinion. Truth must prevail and in order for truth to prevail, IMHO.
When you begin to state the TRUTH then you are interpreting, which is against the Guidelines.
xnman said:then the context of the verse, in context with verses around it and in context with the chapter and in context with the testament is very important.
Stay within the bounds of hermeneutics like this.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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xnman said:
Truth must prevail and in order for truth to prevail, IMHO..
I assume that with the capital T you mean eternal/universal Truth. As Faithlife and its products are very temporal and always in a state of flux, it would seem that Truth is not appropriate in the forums; only truth.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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