Is there an option in logos 4, which I can search bytyping a verb to have displayed past tense and past participle? Ex.When I type give, if I can find at the same time gave and given when availableon the passage I am reading?
Is there an option in logos 4, which I can search by typing a verb to have displayed past tense and past participle? Ex. When I type give, if I can find at the same time gave and given when available on the passage I am reading?
Hi Tes, there is not a direct way to do what you ask but it can be done using one of two approaches.
I will describe the first method in this post and then the second method in the followin post:
Method 1
1. Open a Search window and click on bible search
2. Select your required settings including passage range, and version
3. Enter all forms of the verb you want to find. In this example I have entered "gave" OR "give" OR "given"
4. Click on the search button to run the search
5. Click on the Make Filter button. A visual filter document will open. Once the visual filter is open you can close the search window
6. Set the format of the filter. In this instance I have set a green highlight but you could choose any option.
7. If you wish to use this filter again give it an appropriate name
Your passage should now be visible with the words you required, highlighted in green
Method 2
In this method you start by opening a visual filter document. This disadvantage of this approach is you don't get to preview your results as you do when you run a search first. Method 1 would be recommended for a complex search and method 2 can be used for a simple search.
1. Open a Visual Filter Document and enter your filter criteria such as passge and version
2. Enter your search words. In ths case I have put them on separate lines.
3. Enter you filter formatting. By putting them on separate lines in step 2, each foramat of the word can have a different criteria
4. If the version of bible you choose is not already open eg. ESV then open it and go to the passage you are studying and the words in your passage
will show up highlighted in different colours
In Greek you would simply type lemma:δίδωμι although you might get forms other than the ones you state but you can refine it with the morphology in a Morph Search eg. lemma:δίδωμι@V[^FPT]
An English word search with "Match All Word Forms" may give you what you require but the stemming rules are not very predictable and in this case you must search for (give, gave, given)!
When I type give, if I can find at the same time gave and given when availableon the passage I am reading?
That is what the option "find all forms" should do ... but there is a bug here.
Sorry Martha, it's not a bug. It's a feature of the Porter stemming algorithm explained here.
That is what the option "find all forms" should do ... but there is a bug here. Sorry Martha, it's not a bug. It's a feature of the Porter stemming algorithm explained here.
Which is why I suggested entering the word forms you want, then you know what you are definitely are going to get. I would be nice to be able to confidenly direct a user to such an option, as this would be the prefered method.
It's a feature of the Porter stemming algorithm explained here.
I'm in a grumpy mood tonight - it's a bug in the Porter stemming algorithm that is the result of ignoring the class 5 Germanic verb stems ...[:P] I'll bet I can get a linguist or two to agree.
I'll bet I can get a linguist or two to agree.
A German linguist maybe[:)]
I'll bet I can get a linguist or two to agree. A German linguist maybe
A German linguist maybe
Here I am in the heart of Germany in the famouse City Frankfurt am Main.It is possible to find a linguist ,but for this case NO
I know the rules: if I'm programing it, it is a constraint; if someone else programed it, it's a bug. And I'll bet I could find a historical linguist specializing in Indo-European languages to agree ... especially if I bribed them with Gothic, Frisian and Anglo-Saxon Bibles. [:D]
Yes, Andrew, I see the utility in your method in terms of confidence in output (as long as the "inputer" has specific, concrete, and legitimate expectations--perhaps even "limited" expectations). But...I wonder "why" one would even bother? Because such a search as you suggest, being done in English, would be in many cases riddled with translational errors. Thus the "certainty" of your method would be figmentary. In some cases the meanings in Hebrew and Greek may hold, but quite often (maybe even more often) they would not.
I realize such searches are possible with original language lemmas, but a fair amount of original language knowledge would be required to ascertain if the search criteria and the search output are "complete".
I imagine that our "silver bullet" concept of what Logos can perform for us may be wishful thinking. It can do much but not necessarily all we might desire. [:O]
But...I wonder "why" one would even bother? Because such a search as you suggest, being done in English, would be in many cases riddled with translational errors. Thus the "certainty" of your method would be figmentary. In some cases the meanings in Hebrew and Greek may hold, but quite often (maybe even more often) they would not.
David, in the forums we assist people in achieving what they have asked to do. As someone for whom English is at least a 3rd language, Tes has need for searches that a native speaker would not. And I certainly see many requests for help in Greek or Hebrew that are also potential disasters for those of us not fluent in those languages. While your warning is valid, I would appreciate your assistance in helping Tes through his problems with the software - in this case, perhaps, you could help him use the translation circles to mitigate your concerns.
Thus the "certainty" of your method would be figmentary. In some cases the meanings in Hebrew and Greek may hold, but quite often (maybe even more often) they would not.
Any "uncertainty" to which Andrew is referring lies with the use of give as a stem for gave and given. The English word search in a Reverse Interlinear shows that they cover a number of Louw-Nida semantic domains but the subdomain 57H - Give is closest to the English concept. So if I search on <LN 57.71-124> I will get results from a number of relevant Greek lemmas; many of which are not translated by "give"!
The Hebrew is much more complex ...
A German linguist maybe Here I am in the heart of Germany in the famouse City Frankfurt am Main.It is possible to find a linguist ,but for this case NO
One of my favourite cities ...but I trust the "on topic" responses were helpful.
Which is why I suggested entering the word forms you want, then you know what you are definitely are going to get. I would be nice to be able to confidenly direct a user to such an option, as this would be the prefered method. Yes, Andrew, I see the utility in your method in terms of confidence in output (as long as the "inputer" has specific, concrete, and legitimate expectations--perhaps even "limited" expectations). But...I wonder "why" one would even bother? Because such a search as you suggest, being done in English, would be in many cases riddled with translational errors. Thus the "certainty" of your method would be figmentary. In some cases the meanings in Hebrew and Greek may hold, but quite often (maybe even more often) they would not. I realize such searches are possible with original language lemmas, but a fair amount of original language knowledge would be required to ascertain if the search criteria and the search output are "complete". I imagine that our "silver bullet" concept of what Logos can perform for us may be wishful thinking. It can do much but not necessarily all we might desire.
I imagine that our "silver bullet" concept of what Logos can perform for us may be wishful thinking. It can do much but not necessarily all we might desire.
David (Paul) , I agree with the sentiment of what your are saying but in thiis instance I was simply addressing what Tes currenlty required. Knowing he is still getting a handle on the software and I believe also doesn't have a great deal of orignal language knowledge (but happy to be corrected on that last point if wrong) I simply wanted to show Tes how he can right now get into and use these tools using english. Going to deeply into the things you are discussing I felt would be a distraction for what Tes needs to learn at the moment i.e. what tools are available and how can he use them.
Many people who use Logos Bible Software may well not go into the depths of oringal language study, expcept for the curiosity here and there that leads them to look up a word using a strongs number. That does not preclude them for studing the Word of God or from God working through his Word during their faithful study of the english text, growing them deeper in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ our Lord.
If they are ready to go beyond that, maybe tools like the Word Study Report will stir up their interest, then the points you raise come very much to the forefront in what we need to help them understand and so I do appreciate your thoughts on this matter.
Tes wanted me to update this thread to let you all know what his root problem was.
He called in for technical support and told me was unable to get any bible search results. The problem was with his Bible Index, which I rebuild, and upon restarting L4, the bible search results appeared. The indexing ran for a short amount of time and when we ended our call, his system was in good working order. Thank you all for helping him out.
--Beckie --Technical Support
My dear brothers and sisters, I wish if I could greet you face to face,any way ,if not here ,one day we will see one another in Glory,I am very grateful for the love you have showed me., that's way I am very pleased to write the thread "we have become friends through the Forum" I don't say it only help , but say it love,and thank you Rebecca for help me.
Tes wanted me to update this thread to let you all know what his root problem was. He called in for technical support and told me was unable to get any bible search results. The problem was with his Bible Index, which I rebuild, and upon restarting L4, the bible search results appeared. The indexing ran for a short amount of time and when we ended our call, his system was in good working order. Thank you all for helping him out. --Beckie --Technical Support
Thanks Beckie. Glad that you were able to help Tes out and thanks for posting to update us. As usual Logos Support goes beyond the call of duty.
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