Note to Progressive Christians ...

Please see BUG or is suggestion needed? dynamic text in personal books - Logos Forums

Dear Progressive Christians,

Please advocate for what you would like to be able to do in Logos, how Logos could better serve your needs. As a conservative Catholic, where my academic needs happen to intersect your needs is not a great way to get a broader view of Protestantism supported by Logos.

P.S. I am sure the same applies to other blocks of Christians, some of which I probably don't even know exist.

Edit: for my understanding of "progressive Christians" enter "What are the defining characteristics of progressive Christians?" into the AI engine of your choice and think of a loose mix-and-match of characteristics with other typical defining characteristics of Christians ...

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

DMB

It took me awhile to figure out (I think) what you're talking about, in the referenced thread:

- Functionality in Personal Books (which I thought, per Alabama, was 'over'). But maybe outside PBs, that PBs would use.

- Dynamic text, as in the system managing reference differences (names, spelling), between text-sources

Then, 'Progressive Christians' as either progressive doctrine, or progressive perspective. I'm of the third, a regressive Christian, meaning trying to step in the shoes of the writer/audience. Which demands (I think) what you're asking about (sort of canon-less).

If so, my absolute first need is just to have a reference tool that lists the indices, and who uses them. FL spends so much on indices, and hides them from customers. Today, I was trying to remember where all my Jubilees even were (your thread). Yesterday, it was Community Rule. Before that, Enochian Astronomy (3 Enoch).

MJ. Smith

- Functionality in Personal Books (which I thought, per Alabama, was 'over'). But maybe outside PBs, that PBs would use.

They can't be over until FL provides the essential functionality e.g. Messianic Jewish lectionary, Sanctoral cycles, etc. that are dependent on them. I had read the FL message as speaking about expanding functions rather than maintaining functions.

'Progressive Christians'

I am allowing people to self-identify. I was surprised when a particular forum user self-identified as progressive so I checked with someone I thought of as mainstream-liberal Protestant only to have them tell me they thought of themselves as progressive.

Kiyah

'All I want for Christmas is' a reverse interlinear tagged CEB. (vote here)

I would also like more diverse and ecumenically-minded publishers and authors.

I'd love a truly ecumenical base package.

I would like less of a firewall between Logos and Verbum functionality but I've already been flatly told by a Faithlife employee they're not going to do that.

I would like lectionary layouts to remember how I have the screen laid out but update dynamically to today's (or the upcoming Sunday's) date instead of freezing the date along with the saved/customized layout.

I just want Faithlife to design its tools, resources, and datasets with the broader church in mind from the design phase, and not low-church protestant evangelicals with everyone else being an afterthought or tack-on.

xnman

Personally, I think Logos is on a "progressive church" agenda, depending on what you mean by "progressive church".

I would like to see more "conservative church" agenda.... meaning that I would like to see more books from Church of Christ. But then, I am also a Book Chapter Verse kind of guy.

imho. [8-|]

Kiyah

Personally, I think Logos is on a "progressive church" agenda, depending on what you mean by "progressive church".

I would like to see more "conservative church" agenda.... meaning that I would like to see more books from Church of Christ. But then, I am also a Book Chapter Verse kind of guy.

imho.

It never ceases to amaze me how people in the forums just insist on being off-topic and taking every opportunity to go on their such-and-such "agenda" rants. Can folks ever just decide, "This conversation doesn't pertain to me or my interests, I think I'll just skip it..."?

Anthony Sims

I would also like more diverse and ecumenically-minded publishers and authors.

I just want Faithlife to design its tools, resources, and datasets with the broader church in mind from the design phase, and not low-church protestant evangelicals with everyone else being an afterthought or tack-on.

Basically this.

scooter

low-church protestant evangelicals

What does 'low-church' mean?

DMB

What does 'low-church' mean?

Believe it or not, WikiP has an article:

Low church - Wikipedia

If you enjoy humor (being careful), at the bottom is a great web page on the historical difference (unsecure; be forewarned).

Kiyah

low-church protestant evangelicals

What does 'low-church' mean?

Non-liturgical, less ritual/ceremony, less elaborate. Episcopalians or Catholics would be an example high-church, Baptists would be an example of low-church. It's not a value judgment, it's a description of the style of worship.

Think low-church = simple; high-church = fancy

scooter

What does 'low-church' mean?

Believe it or not, WikiP has an article:

Low church - Wikipedia

If you enjoy humor (being careful), at the bottom is a great web page on the historical difference (unsecure; be forewarned).

Thank you, DMB. Minimal ritual.

scooter

low-church protestant evangelicals

What does 'low-church' mean?

Non-liturgical, less ritual/ceremony, less elaborate. Episcopalians or Catholics would be an example high-church, Baptists would be an example of low-church. It's not a value judgment, it's a description of the style of worship.

Think low-church = simple; high-church = fancy

I was wondering if it was a value judgement. It's not. Thanks, Kayak.

MJ. Smith

Kiyah and Anthony Sims and other liberal/progressive Christians -

Are these lists of publishers and authors anywhere on the mark of what you'd like to see expanded? Or do you have better suggestions?

Ecumenical in orientation:

World Council of Churches
Orbis Books
Fortress Press
Paulist Press
Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.
Liturgical Press
Church Publishing Incorporated
IVP Academic

Yes, you'll notice a heavy ACELO bias (Anglican-Catholic-Eastern Orthodox-Lutheran-Oriental Orthodox) as that is the terrain I am familiar with.

Thomas Merton
Rowan Williams
Jürgen Moltmann
Hans Küng
Lesslie Newbigin
Olivier Clément
Catherine Mowry LaCugna
Elizabeth A. Johnson
Brian McLaren
Kallistos Ware

Interfaith in focus

Orbis Books
SkyLight Paths Publishing
Paulist Press
Fons Vitae
Oxford University Press
Westminster John Knox Press
Abingdon Press
Jewish Lights Publishing
Plough Publishing House

Thich Nhat Hanh
Thomas Merton
Hans Küng
Paul F. Knitter
Raimon Panikkar
Miroslav Volf
John Hick
Amy-Jill Levine
Rowan Williams
David Bentley Hart

Progressive in focus

Westminster John Knox Press
Orbis Books
Fortress Press
Church Publishing Incorporated
Chalice Press
Wipf and Stock
Beacon Press
Plough Publishing House
IVP Books
HarperOne

John Shelby Spong
Marcus Borg
Brian McLaren
Rachel Held Evans
Nadia Bolz-Weber
Jim Wallis
Matthew Fox
Diana Butler Bass
Richard Rohr
Catherine Keller

Merely liberal in focus

Paul Tillich
Rudolf Bultmann
Harry Emerson Fosdick
Karen Armstrong
Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza
Sallie McFague
Gerd Lüdemann

Perennial philosophy in focus

Aldous Huxley
Frithjof Schuon
Thomas Merton
Huston Smith
Raimon Panikkar
Ananda Coomaraswamy
René Guénon
Bedřich Hrozný
Seyyed Hossein Nasr
Richard Rohr

Just for fun, most controversial

John Shelby Spong
Dan Brown
Bart Ehrman
Joel Osteen
Matthew Fox
Reza Aslan
T.R. Jakes
Elaine Pagels
Rob Bell
Friedrich Nietzsche

Feel free to chuckle at some of the entries, I am outside my comfort zone but want to provoke some more specifics on the resources you believe to be out of balance. My own bias is obviously the Eastern and Oriental resources.

Kiyah

Kiyah and Anthony Sims and other liberal/progressive Christians -

Are these lists of publishers and authors anywhere on the mark of what you'd like to see expanded? Or do you have better suggestions?

I'm going to take a stab at working on a list. This list is a good start but some of these authors/publishers are already in Logos.

Rosie Perera

Progressive in focus

Westminster John Knox Press

Orbis Books

Fortress Press

Church Publishing Incorporated

Chalice Press

Wipf and Stock

Beacon Press

Plough Publishing House

IVP Books

HarperOne

I wouldn't call Westminster John Knox Press "Progressive". It has always been the go-to publisher for serious and academic Presbyterian works when I was a Presbyterian (UPC in Seattle) and beyond. Their website explains that they publish works that "cover the spectrum of religious thought." They publish, for example, Alister McGrath (who has "had a tremendous impact on the renaissance of evangelical theology"), N.T. Wright ("an influential biblical interpreter among evangelical and conservative-mainline Christians"), and Marva Dawn ("generally perceived as a Lutheran evangelical"), but also Barbara Brown Taylor, who would be counted among and would appeal to Progressive Christians.

I wouldn't have thought of Orbis Books as "Progressive" necessarily, although they do publish a lot of liberation theology which is of interest to Progressive Christians. But Faithlife/Logos needs to get its act together and get Orbis into their catalogue in a big way. They have tons of good books, many of which I have on my dead tree shelves.

I wouldn't call Plough Publishing House progressive. They are the publishing house for the Bruderhof, "an international movement of Christian communities whose members are called to follow Jesus together in the spirit of the Sermon on the Mount and of the first church in Jerusalem, sharing all our talents, income, and possessions." They publish spiritual classics, high quality devotional books, books on costly Christianity and life in community, etc.

I wouldn't call IVP Books "Progressive". It's pretty classic evangelical as far as I am aware. My mother always used to carry lots of IVP books in her evangelical bookstores back in the 1970s-1990s. An anecdotal history of IVP published in 2006 summarized the "leading authors and books that shaped evangelicalism in the 20th century." (Wikipedia) Maybe it has moved more to the left/progressive end in recent years but I haven't been finding my favorite progressive authors among their recent publications.

HarperOne -- definitely Progressive, and I'd love to see Logos get on board with them.

[Progressive in focus]

John Shelby Spong
Marcus Borg
Brian McLaren
Rachel Held Evans
Nadia Bolz-Weber
Jim Wallis
Matthew Fox
Diana Butler Bass
Richard Rohr
Catherine Keller

Merely liberal in focus

Paul Tillich
Rudolf Bultmann
Harry Emerson Fosdick
Karen Armstrong
Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza
Sallie McFague
Gerd Lüdemann

I wouldn't make as much of a distinction between Liberal and Progressive as you do. There are definitely the classic 19th and early 20th century Liberal Protestant types like Paul Tillich, Rudolf Bultmann, and Harry Emerson Fosdick from your list, to which I'd add Friedrich Schleiermacher, Adolf von Harnack, Henry Ward Beecher, Walter Rauschenbusch, John A.T. Robinson, John Hick.

But many Christians today would use the terms Liberal and Progressive almost interchangeably for current authors, or at least the term "Liberal" has become so mushy as to encompass all of what would fall under the heading Progressive. I would consider feminist theology (Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, Sallie McFague) to be both Liberal and Progressive, for example.

I have "Liberal/Progressive" as a tag in my library, and it includes all of the classic Liberal Protestants I mentioned above (except Hick, who is lacking in Logos's catalogue; they only have one of those Four Views Counterpoints series that includes one view by him) plus more contemporary authors, e.g., Walter Brueggemann, Rob Bell, Scot McKnight, Brad Jersak, Rachel Held Evans.

Others I'd like to see Logos carry that I'd lump in this category include: John Hick, William Sloane Coffin, John Shelby Spong (even though controversial), Sarah Bessey, and more each of: Rob Bell, Diana Butler Bass, Barbara Brown Taylor, Joan Chittister, Phyllis Tickle, Anne Lamott, Randal Rauser, Brad Jersak, Rachel Held Evans, Brian McLaren, Peter Enns.

One problem for me is that I gave up long ago on Logos carrying more progressive titles, and I've begun buying them in Kindle. So if Faithlife does produce Logos eBooks of any of these, I'm not likely to buy them again from them.

abondservant

Just for fun, most controversial

John Shelby Spong

Dan Brown

Bart Ehrman

Joel Osteen

Matthew Fox

Reza Aslan

T.R. Jakes

Elaine Pagels

Rob Bell

Friedrich Nietzsche

Great list. I love Osteen and Bell being on the same list as Nietzche. Do you mean T.D. Jakes?

I would add - and this may be controversial, but I'd add the extremists in the social gospel camp, and much of the prosperity gospel folks (even Stephen Furtick a products of one of the SBC seminaries).

Prosperity gospel folks not always, but often add health wealth and happiness as priorities ahead of the gospel sliding them into a more progressive stance. So could some of the social gospel guys.

Rosie Perera

Another progressive resource I'd love to see in Logos is The Christian Century (magazine). It calls itself Thoughtful / Independent / Progressive. Its website says, "Since 1900, the Christian Century has published reporting, commentary, poetry, and essays on the role of faith in a pluralistic society." Its About page says, "For decades, the Christian Century has informed and shaped progressive, mainline Christianity. Committed to thinking critically and living faithfully, the magazine explores what it means to believe and live out the Christian faith in our time. As a voice of generous orthodoxy, the Century is both loyal to the church and open to the world."

This was an excellent recent article that gets at what I think of as progressive Christianity. I give its main points here below for the TL;DR version.

Deconstructed, reimagined faith by Peter Choi

Five ways I see a new generation reorienting its Christianity

1. From triumphalism to lament.

2. From morality to dignity.

3. From certainty to mystery.

4. From superiority to mutuality.

5. From rhetoric to embodiment.

This article was making the rounds among my progressive Christian friends on Facebook recently.

Writers published by the Century over its long history include Martin E. Marty, James M. Wall, Jane Addams, Albert Schweitzer, W. E. B. DuBois, Reuben Markham, C. S. Lewis, W. H. Auden, T. S. Eliot, Reinhold Niebuhr, Richard John Neuhaus, Paul Tillich, John F. Kennedy, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Thomas Merton, James Cone, Rosemary Rutherford, Mary Daly, Billy Graham, Wendell Berry, Henri Nouwen, N. T. Wright, Delores S. Williams, Sarah Coakley, Rowan Williams, and Marilynne Robinson.

I've added a request for it to be voted for here:

The Christian Century (magazine)

Louis Vigo

Definitely going that direction. Eisegesis Maximus.

MJ. Smith

I've added four of R. S. Sugirtharajah's works to FeedBear - I'd love all of his work but these are ones I deem most likely to gain support. Remember to vote for Rosie's authors as well. We have to show a demand.

Postcolonial Criticism and Biblical Interpretation by R. S. Sugirtharajah | Logos

Jesus in Asia by R. S. Sugirtharajah | Logos

SCM Dictionary of Third World Theologies | Logos

An Asian Introduction to the New Testament | Logos

Rosie Perera

Here's a new resource in pre-pub that looks like it would be of interest to the liberal/progressive folks:

https://www.logos.com/product/259679/the-making-of-american-liberal-theology

MJ. Smith

Thanks to Rosie for help keeping this push alive. In response to a survey by Logos, I have posted How could Logos help your sermon-writing process? which includes a progressive Christian concern. Please make sure the liberal and progressive views are represented in the feedback.

DMB

Please make sure the liberal and progressive views are represented in the feedback.

I was going to ... your points are good, but surprising (I don't use the sermon tools). I decided to move on; the design (design, design, design) is too brittle. Mark will likely do a little of this and that. It's a lot like the work-thing (I don't even remember its name). My impression over the years, is they have a feature budget, they get near its limit, and then they're done. A few years later, a little this and that. I suspect that's now even more their future.

MJ. Smith

Everyone - please respond to ATTN: Mark re:sermon assistant tools OR tell me why the Sermon Builder doesn't meet your needs - Logos Forums as appropriate while we have the attention of Mark. The Catholic and progressive needs have significant overlap so both should be considered.

Rafe Andersen

Wow.... This post is disturbing.

MJ. Smith

Verbum is offering an inexpensive package for RICA (rite of Christian initiation for adults) - a concept that needs to be applied to confirmation and lay minister training where denominationally relevant. For that I reason I have made this suggestion SUGGESTION: Worship Matters - lay/ordained minister books from ELCA perspective - Logos Forums

Bob Diebel

The Series "What The Bible Teaches" is Very "Chapter & Verse", Very conservative.

Lynden O. Williams

First time reading this thread.

Everything ever written in Religion or Theology available in Logos.

Logos seems to be willing to work with any publisher or author with whom they can come to terms with. If enough users indicate that they want a feature (basis of the OP) or resource they will try and get get/implement it.

Speak to the publisher/author about making their resource available in Logos and see if that works. The more the merrier.