Best resources for beginning Greek student?
Best resources for beginning Greek student?
Question from one planning on learning Greek. Currently at absolute beginner level.
If there is some sort of guide to the many resources please point me to it ...
Already have the complete Mounce course (including Mounce lexicon), and several other beginning grammar books.
Also have available (but don't know how to use):
BDAG, TDNTA, TDNT, Liddell & Scott (abridged and full) Thayer’s and numerous older dictionary / lexicon type books.
Many exegetical type commentaries. Do not understand most of what is in them.
Are the new expensive resources really a lot more helpful than older commentators like Lenski or Alford?
Which resources should be consulted first? Which would or would not be recommended for beginning students? What would a recommended list of resources be?
After the student is more advanced, what additional resources would be the most helpful?
My long term goal is to read, pronounce and understand the Greek New Testament and Septuagint ... and maybe more. My schedule does not allow taking formal classes, but I have lots of time for memorization.
I have the Greek New Testament in audio form. Pronunciation in modern Greek (Zodhiates) and Erasmian (Pennington and Schwandt). I have no real desire or need to be accepted in academia, so I am leaning towards learning modern pronunciation. Or learning both. Are there pro's and con's to this that I may not have considered?
Comments
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Since you have Mounce you have a starting grammar taught to students at the college level. Use it.
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You have a lot of resources. Just having Logos with a Greek NT and BDAG and Mounce would have blown me away as a first year Greek student (I learned Greek back when we used physical flash cards ;-). For someone who has so many resources, I hesitate to tell you to pick up one more. In truth, going through Mounce is your best bet. But if the standard book or course is too complicated for you, try his "Greek for the Rest of Us" book. It might be best for the first go around and then you can go deeper if you want on the second go around. Though you might just find the majority of what you are hoping for from that first book alone.
Mastery of Greek (the ability to read and understand the NT and LXX) is a long process, but Greek for the Rest of Us can show you some of the advantages of knowing Greek and help you understand how to use some of the key tools like BDAG and Greek commentaries like the New International Greek Testament commentary series. And of course Logos provides incredible opportunities as well.
Hopefully you can also be mentored by a pastor or friend who knows Greek...you can go it alone, but it would be really helpful to have someone accompany you on the journey at least occasionally.
In sum, I recommend
- Greek for the Rest of Us (Mounce)
- Basics of Biblical Greek (Mounce)
- Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics (Wallace) (this could seem overwhelming...do not look at it before finishing Basics of Biblical Greek)
- BDAG (and various other lexicons, but start here)
- Exegetical commentaries like Baker Exegetical Commentary, and the New International Greek Testament Commentary (only after finishing Greek for the Rest of Us or Basics of Biblical Greek) You don't need to buy new commentaries, but these are the ones I would start with if you want a more modern Evangelical commentary using Greek.
- NET Bible (this is actually good to begin with right now...its translation notes on the New Testament are excellent and gives you a taste of seeing how knowing more Greek could be helpful). NET bible is available online for free or you can get it in Logos for a small price.
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Thanks, I actually have Greek for the rest of us. I read at least part of it many years ago. I recently dusted off my bookshelf and found my notes where I had been learning the alphabet. I did not even remember that attempt. I had purchased a printed copy of BDAG about 20 years ago. I just removed the shrinkwrap yesterday.
Good advice
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Great questions. Here are my thoughts.
1. If you have the opportunity to learn Greek via a class, either in person or online, go for it. Find a local seminary, bible college, or something online. Being able to ask actual people questions for help makes things so much easier.
2. If you must do it on your own, it is possible, but I would recommend using Greek grammar in conjunction with lecture content. There are are a number of options. You can pay for content, or use free content.
Paided content includes:
- Logos's Biblical Greek Study Bundle - https://www.logos.com/product/145022/biblical-greek-foundational-study-bundle
- Reading Biblical Greek by Campbell - https://www.logos.com/product/185434/reading-biblical-greek-video-lectures
Free (ish) content:
- Mounce Course Content (Includes lecturers) - https://www.billmounce.com/biblicalgreek/track1
- Beginning with Greek New Testament y - https://dailydoseofgreek.com/learn-biblical-greek/ or https://bhacademic.bhpublishinggroup.com/beginninggreek/
Whatever course you pick you should get hold of its corresponding Greek grammar book. If you already have all of Mounces stuff then probably just go with him. But the others are helpful to know about, because if you get stuck with Mounce on a topic you can see how the other guys teach it.
And that's pretty much it. Start with lecture one, and work your way forward. Learn the grammar, memorize the vocab and paradigms and practice practice practice your parsing and translation. Be consistent, a little each day.
There is a hybrid option. A college in my neck of the woods offers the first semester of Greek free, online, in a self study mode. https://www.morling.edu.au/courses/new-testament-greek-online/ There might be other similar options available elsewhere.
Additional thoughts:
- Regarding resources: Mounce is good. But I think Merkle and Plumber, or Campbell, is better. This is because they are much more recent, and take advantage of developments made in teaching. Regarding the older stuff, they have their place, but there has also been lots of developments in Greek over the years which might not be reflected in their content. Use the newer stuff if you can.
- Don't worry about the intermediate to advanced stuff yet, but Mounce, Merkle and Plumber etc all have intermediate grammars you can upgrade to once you finish with their beginner stuff.
- Don't stress what pronunciation you use, either works, the best thing is just being consistent. Modern is closer to the original than Erasmian, and Campbell uses it, but the others use Erasmian. I've learned Modern, friends I have have learned both, its not that big a deal. The biggest issue is that modern has a number of letters that sound the same, whereas in Erasmian all the letters have a different sound.
- BDAG is the gold standard lexicon, but using it isn't your priority at the moment, learning the grammar and vocab is. Once you get the grammar under your belt and start to translate passages, consult some of the online resources that teach you how to use it such as - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufedUshwKQ8 Also check out https://www.logos.com/grow/how-to-understand-greek-lexicons/
- Best video introduction to the alphabet I have found is part of Campbell's lecture series, available online for free. He will go through both the Modern and Erasmian pronunciation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZnLvXha01U
- KNOWING GREEK GRAMMAR/VOCAB IS NOT THE SAME AS KNOWING HOW TO EXEGETE RESPONSIBILITY. Can't stress this enough. A little Greek is a dangerous thing, and exegesis is a skill that must be learned on top of any first year Greek content. Remember, the stuff you are dipping your toe into now is grammar, which forms a necessary foundation for exegesis, but itself is not exegesis. This is where formal training is really helpful and recommended. But there are resources available to help learn this, the intermediate to advanced books start heading in that direction.
Other Resources:
- Anki. I cannot recommend this resource enough. It is a free, open source memorization program, used heavily by language learners, and you should use it too. https://apps.ankiweb.net/ Now, there is a learning curve that needs to be overcome, but nothing that a few youtube videos can't sort out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm4oooKANzU This is how learn your vocab. Here is some advice for creating memory cards https://www.supermemo.com/en/blog/twenty-rules-of-formulating-knowledge
- https://mastergreek.com/ A simple website to practice parsing nouns and verbs.
- If you want access to the current critical editions of the Greek NT you can access them for free here - https://www.academic-bible.com/en/online-bibles/novum-testamentum-graece-na-28/read-the-bible-text/
Beginner Greek Grammars:
- Beginning with New Testament Greek (2020) by Merkle & Plummer
- Learn to Read New Testament Greek (2009) by Black
- Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar (2019) by Mounce
- Reading Biblical Greek (2017) by Gibson & Campbell
Other Helpful Books:
- English Grammar to Ace New Testament Greek (2004) by Samuel Lamerson
- Dictionary of English grammar for students of Biblical languages (2020) by Kyle Greenwood
- Greek for Life: Strategies for Learning, Retaining, and Reviving New Testament Greek (2017) by Merkle & Plummer
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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There are many good books, but some are designed for classrooms with a teacher, such as David Alan Black. They are very concise, but leave much room for an instructor to work.
Others include a much more full text, telling you what a teach would have said in class. These include with high recommendations:
Rodney J. Decker, Reading Koine Greek: An Introduction and Integrated Workbook (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2014),Dana Harris, An Introduction to Biblical Greek Grammar, and the Workbook.Or with the video lectures:And for learning Greek, or any language, electronic versions are not as effective as using a pen and paper.0 -
David Alan Black free lectures: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9OBFGB6I8imj9mXHCvV1YpNSWI-0tXxL
DAL
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Thanks to everyone for your very helpful replies. I will be looking at all these shortly. I feel like I am about to embark on a great adventure 😇
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DAL said:
David Alan Black free lectures: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9OBFGB6I8imj9mXHCvV1YpNSWI-0tXxL
Oooh I didn't know about these! Thank you DAL!
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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Mal Walker said:DAL said:
David Alan Black free lectures: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9OBFGB6I8imj9mXHCvV1YpNSWI-0tXxL
Oooh I didn't know about these! Thank you DAL!
You’re welcome! If you have the textbook, just follow along 👍
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The Black videos look great, and free is a great price too. I do already have his “learning to read” book so I will definitely use those. I am thinking an eclectic approach, because I also have the Mounce videos that go along with his book.
I think it was Mal who posted a link to a Darryl Burling video about BDAG … I have been watching a lot of this guys YouTube videos. He coaches and helps people work through the Mounce system. I was wondering if you recommend his entire program or if the link was intended just to convey information about BDAG?
Also, one of the strategies Darryl talks about is learning all the grammar you would learn in seminary, but also focusing on getting you reading as quickly as possible, starting with the easiest books (John) to encourage you to persevere. This sounds great to me, because personally I will have ability to memorize vocabulary, but less time for book work.
On that note, my plan is once I am able, to listen to the audio being spoken while following along in the text. I have everything I need. I just got the new Tyndall Greek \ ESV parallel New Testament and I really like it. The text may be slightly different than the various audio that I have available but I don’t think it will matter much. So my question is this … and I had already asked in the iOS section and did not get encouraging news …
In the Logos iOS app, the ESV Bible essentially reads to you and you can read along while it reads. I would love to have that ability with the Greek. I would purchase whatever Logos resources I would need. I currently do not have the Tyndale THGNT in Logos, but I think I have NA27. If anyone knows How to get Greek audio let me know [H]
John
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Ok I have answered my own question. In case anyone else is wondering. The John Schwandt Greek Audio page calls it a "Karaoke feature" when the audio is synchronized with the text.
[quote]Karaoke feature allows you to follow along while reading the Greek New Testament
There is a list of Greek Resources it is compatible with, which does not include the Tyndale (maybe it just has not been updated? or maybe the text differs too much?)
And finally, the deal-breaker for me:
[quote]The karaoke feature is available on desktop only.
The English audio in the ESV works so well on mobile. Seems to me like this could be done?
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Mal Walker said:
Best video introduction to the alphabet I have found is part of Campbell's lecture series, available online for free. He will go through both the Modern and Erasmian pronunciation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZnLvXha01U
This looks like it will be useful. And this is step one for me.
I see Zondervan has an online course https://courses.zondervanacademic.com/all/reading-biblical-greek
12 Month Access $299.99 USDIs the entire series online for free somewhere?It is good that there are so many resources available.
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Beginning with New Testament Greek is an excellent book. I preferred it to Mounce. Free online videos are available - https://dailydoseofgreek.com/learn-biblical-greek/.
I have been learning NT Greek off and on for several years. I am still a baby using it. I wish to tell you what I have discovered in my labors. I have no local school to take classes at and I have not taken any online classes.
Classes
If they are available to you take them in person. Self-study is slow as there is no way to get meaningful help. Online classes may be helpful. I have not taken any.
Dedication
You will need much patience because this is hard. You will be benefitted by finding something in your life that takes time, quit that thing and put Greek study in its place.
Patience
You will need a lot of it. Nothing more can be said here.
Learning (this part will be a bit controversial)
Don't get bogged down by perfection. I have done this over and over. There is no need for it. You are in the process of learning. Stay on any topic only as long as you are enjoying it. When you quit enjoying it move to the next topic. You can always return to earlier topics and they will probably make more sense at that time.
As soon as you have learned the alphabet start reading 1 John. You will understand nothing but it is important to start recognizing words. Also, make a vocabulary list for 1 John 1 phrase by phrase. The vocabulary lists in the books are established according to frequency/the lessons. As you complete a chapter in the book for a part of speech, see if you can recognize any in 1 John 1.
A Greek Reader is a huge help. Get one and use it. As you progress through parts of speech learn to read and recognize the words in 1 John 1. As soon as you can recognize some of the words and their forms use Greek tools that have morphology (Logos or print) to read the first verse. Many of the forms and words you will not yet recognize but that is alright. For forms you do not recognize, compare the lexical form and the form you are looking at and note any differences. Having this exposure will help as you proceed through your book. Read Greek every day even if it is only a short phrase. Keep reading that is why you are learning. Using Daily Dose of Greek is very helpful - https://dailydoseofgreek.com/1-3-john/.
Many things you read/hear will be discouraging. A little Greek is a dangerous thing. I bet not one person who says that told their children to quit speaking/reading/conversing until you know enough English. I know what they are trying to say but from my experience the little Greek I have learned has helped me in bible study. I try not to speak authoritatively because I know a little Greek. Pride that may come from learning a little Greek is dangerous but not a little Greek.
Reading Greek will not magically make you understand the bible better. Greek like English has its vagueness. However, if you take it slowly word by word, phrase by phrase, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph and book by book it will benefit you much earlier than most think.
I hope this helps and gives you something to think about from one who is going before you on the same path. It is hard work. Find a way to make it useful to you as soon as you can and you will enjoy the journey.
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Gary James said:
You will need much patience because this is hard.
Thanks for your response Gary. What part did you find the hardest?
When I think back to when I was a kid learning English, I did not like Grammar. But when it came to reading and writing I did well.
I am hoping it will be much the same with Greek.
You are now the second person who recommended "Beginning Greek" (Merkle and Plummer). Since I already have Mounce and Black's books, can you please give a little more detail as to what this book does better? In what way is it better?
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Check this video out. https://youtu.be/_G8RFl2s2zA Plan your studies well. If you go it alone, research how you will do it. If you attend a course, it pays to see the philosophy of the training programme up front.
Biblical Greek Made Simple is popular with some to help you lay a foundation and use Logos more effectively:https://www.logos.com/product/148891/biblical-greek-made-simple-all-the-basics-in-one-semester
For full on self studies, I would go for:
https://www.logos.com/product/197804/beginning-with-new-testament-greek-an-introductory-study-of-the-grammar-and-syntax-of-the-new-testament
and use BBG Mounce as a secondary grammar.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
For full on self studies, I would go for:
https://www.logos.com/product/197804/beginning-with-new-testament-greek-an-introductory-study-of-the-grammar-and-syntax-of-the-new-testament
Is right now in pre-pub at 30% off. Ships TOMORROW.
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Thanks Donovan, you were the third person to recommend "Beginning Greek" (Merkle and Plummer).
After looking into it and reading some reviews I decided to make that my primary course and use the Mounce and Black material for reference as I go along.
Thanks Scooter for the tip on the pre-pub. Timing could not have been better [H]
Me being who I am, of course I also ordered a printed copy too. [8-|]
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I am glad this was helpful.
If you are finding integrating your Greek studies into Logos difficult, add 'Biblical Greek Made Simple' into the equation. It is the only Greek grammar resource that I know that directly connects to teaching you to use Logos in the process.
Structuring your studies to work on adding words in your vocab every week, practice parsing and recalling paradigms will be essential. I think Dr. Barryl Burling's youtube videos provide some good rationale to start and rift from. I also think his approach on which books of the Bible to start with makes a lot of sense to me, but others might disagree.
I tend to set up 90 day goals and a study plan for myself, accepting a level of realism in what I can do in that particular quarter. For example, I have more time to study in the winter when the weather is lousy. Summer is busier, so I study less. I am ok with that and I want to enjoy my studies, plus enjoy the seasons as opposed to be driven by an artificial goal. This is the benefit of self paced study.
A little consistently is better than occasional big bursts - a daily does of Greek is great to help with this. I really like Mounce's approach to explaining things and there are a lot of resources on his site as well.
Most of all, have fun.
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It's not on Logos, but I've found this combination of book, videos and flash card app to be very helpful.
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John said:
Thanks for your response Gary. What part did you find the hardest?
John said:You are now the second person who recommended "Beginning Greek" (Merkle and Plummer). Since I already have Mounce and Black's books, can you please give a little more detail as to what this book does better? In what way is it better?
Hi John. I hope your Greek endeavor is moving forward.
The hardest thing for me was the books are all written for classroom study and school study where that is mostly what one does. I found that to be too draggy. I found myself spending all my time studying Greek and not studying the Bible. This is a dangerous trap as you think you are studying the scriptures but aren't. That is why I think it is important to start using Greek, even if you need helps to do so, as soon as possible. Study a word, then another, then another. Before long you will have a verse and then a paragraph.
The main thing I liked was the order of the chapters. I also think timing had a lot to do with it. My kids were playing basketball when I was using Mounce's book. We were traveling all over the state. Time was precious. They were done with basketball when I started Beginning Greek.
Merkel and Plummer also have an intermediate grammar that follows on from the first. I use it as a reference when a text is hard to understand.
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Step 1 is the Alphabet. I searched the internet for the best available tools for learning just the Greek Alphabet. And I ended up going full circle and back to Logos. There are plenty of free videos and books. And I already have what would be needed in my Logos Library. But I wanted something that was fully interactive.
I ended up taking another look at GK092 "Interactive Greek Alphabet Course".
Any comments or suggestions on this? (not the entire learning process, but just the Alphabet) ...
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For the alphabet, there isn't really much to it except practice.
- Practice writing out the lowercase letters (you encounter them far more then uppercase).
- Practice saying the letters.
- Practice recognizing the letters when prompted (flashcards).
I personally wouldn't purchase the GK092 course, when you have free content available. Go through the free lecture by Constantine R. Campbell, listen to a couple of alphabet songs. Depending on what logos version you have, you might already have access to Greek Alphabet Tutor as well. No need to go spend extra money.
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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A good online intro Greek course is: https://worldschoolbooks.com/a-free-greek-course/
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I like how this Greek programme continues to develop. They use Logos as well.
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