Wow! How denominations have grown

xnman

In 1990, in my research, I came up with there were 38,000 different religious denominations world wide.

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, there were over 45,000 Christian denominations worldwide as of 2020.

7,000 new religious denominations in 10 years!

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Comments

DMB

Well, there's a subtraction issue there.

But still, 230 per year. That's almost one per day. Tomoorow, one more. By Sunday, 3! Just think ... 3 more pastors needing Logos, to demonstrate they're right.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264436#Comment_1264436

Well, there's a subtraction issue there.

But still, 230 per year. That's almost one per day. Tomoorow, one more. By Sunday, 3! Just think ... 3 more pastors needing Logos, to demonstrate they're right.

Verrrry Interrrrrressting! Maybe we are like the people at the Areopagus..... just create another church in case we miss one..... I find it all amazing.

MJ. Smith

Some statistics on church denomination consider each country to have a separate denomination i.e. Swedish Lutheran, Finnish Lutheran, Lithuanian Lutheran . . .so some of the "new" denominations may be a good thing. What fascinates me is that of the three original streams - Syriac, Greek, Latin - the bulk of the denominations come from the Latin.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264436#Comment_1264436

Within the church of Christ there’s been a few also:

1. Instrumental churches

2. None instrumental

3. Those who don’t believe in heaven anymore but on a renewed earth.

4. Those who don’t believe in hell anymore.

5. Those who allow women to serve.

6. Christian church.

7. Disciples of Christ.

8. Full blown restorationists

9. Those who believe that only the principle of restoration is good but not the movement.

10. Those who now call themselves community church but still claim to be affiliated to the church of Christ.

11. Those who don’t believe in hiring a preacher.

12. Anti-movement (one cup only, etc.).

13. Those who are mild charismatics and believe the Holy Spirit does a few things (whatever they mean by that).

14. Those who worship like the church of Christ but don’t know what to call themselves because they don’t have a name outside.

15. Those who dare not use capital letters on church of Christ and those who do write it as Church of Christ (I just read an article about that today).

And maybe a few more.

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264440#Comment_1264440

What fascinates me is that of the three original streams - Syriac, Greek, Latin - the bulk of the denominations come from the Latin.

Unfair fascination. Just because of a few 'minor' altercations in Spain, and southeast Europe (Islam). Else greek-heaven. Oh wait ...

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264441#Comment_1264441

Within the church of Christ there’s been a few also:

....

And maybe a few more.

I'm surprised you left out non-institutionalists. That was big in the 50s. Then, they moved on to non-remarriage-ers. My Dad got fired on that one.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264464#Comment_1264464

Within the church of Christ there’s been a few also:

....

And maybe a few more.

I'm surprised you left out non-institutionalists. That was big in the 50s. Then, they moved on to non-remarriage-ers. My Dad got fired on that one.

And a few more… 😉 But you’re right no help for orphan homes out of the church’s collection was a big thing…now is not as big!

DAL

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264464#Comment_1264464

If you are going to get specific, can you point me to a reference on how the CofC treats the Apostolic Church of Armenia - founded by an apostle and always independent?

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264467#Comment_1264467

If you are going to get specific, can you point me to a reference on how the CofC treats the Apostolic Church of Armenia - founded by an apostle and always independent?

I've read rather extensively in writings in the Church of Christ but never read much about Apostolic Church of Armenia, in those writings, other than it was started by St. Gregory around the 4th century and it was supposed to have been founded on the apostles teachings and the Nicene creed. And that came from memory and I'm not sure where I read it. I don't find it associated with the Church of Christ, especially when it followed the Nicene Creed.

While Dal pointed out many "divisions" of the Church of Christ, in reality, many of those divisions were people that split off from the Church of Christ, are not in fellowship, and thus stand on their own, simply because they teach different doctrines. Some churches have adopted the slogan "A Church of Christ". But again, they are different.

The "Mainstream Church of Christ" which some call it, and as it was called in some publications, still stands and is prospering today. When many, such as me, talk about Church of Christ, it is the "Mainstream Church of Christ" that we speak of. We wish those that did split off would change their names so as not to cause confusion.... but people will be people. And while many people write about the Church of Christ, I find most of them do not know the Church of Christ.

One can find out more about the Church of Christ from the following books:

The Church of Christ by Edward Wharton

The Church - The Beautiful Bride of Christ by Garland Elkins and Thomas B. Warren.

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264500#Comment_1264500

In his history of the Restoration Movement, James North writes the following about a young Thomas Campbell:

“He was not just a Presbyterian; he was not just a Christian; he was an Old Light Anti-Burgher Seceder Presbyterian Protestant kind of a Christian. Worst of all, they officially believed they were the one true church, and all persons of any other denominational stripe ought to be disfellowshipped.”^{^[1]}

Such division made it difficult for Campbell to find fellowship within churches in the American wilderness. His desire was to find fellowship among believers in Christ, even when there might be differences of “opinion.” I dare say that everyone that falls within the list that DAL has given, considers themselves part of the true Church of Christ. They do not consider themselves as having split away. It is sad, I think, that the very thing that Thomas Campbell sought to do is the very thing we as the Church of Christ are not doing, seeking fellowship, even among our differences, as we seek to grow closer to Christ, in the unity of God’s word.

Sometimes I wonder if the reason we in the Restoration Movement do not get a Restoration Movement package within Logos is due to the fact that a number of people within the movement take issue with the writings of others within the movement, making it difficult to decide what to put in such a package.

^{^[1]} North, James, Union in Truth: An Interpretive History of the Restoration Movement (Standard Pub., 1994), 75.

Ryland Brown

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264500#Comment_1264500

Thanks, xnman! I grew up in Independent Christian Churches and was a preacher for close to 20 years in restoration movement congregations. The last church I served was a break-off from a CoC 30 years ago, and they added instruments to their services about 10 years after they left. The leadership of this church was almost all CoC growing up, and most graduated from Harding.

The collective impression of the leadership of the history of the restoration movement was interesting. In a lot of the independent churches, we seemed to have a stronger view of three distinct groups, ICC, DoC, and CoC, within the restoration movement. In this breakaway CoC, it was much more about the distinctions in the Churches of Christ, which I didn't know existed until I came to this church, and the Disciples of Christ. Since the first split in the unity movement happened between the Churches of Christ and Disciples of Christ, that seemed to have more of an impact on what they remembered. Many of them did not know there was a difference between ICC and DoC in the same way I didn't know about the different expressions of autonomous authority within the Churches of Christ. I never heard of a "one-cupper" until I started preaching there.

If you are going to get specific, can you point me to a reference on how the CofC treats the Apostolic Church of Armenia - founded by an apostle and always independent?

I've read rather extensively in writings in the Church of Christ but never read much about Apostolic Church of Armenia, in those writings, other than it was started by St. Gregory around the 4th century and it was supposed to have been founded on the apostles teachings and the Nicene creed. And that came from memory and I'm not sure where I read it. I don't find it associated with the Church of Christ, especially when it followed the Nicene Creed.

While Dal pointed out many "divisions" of the Church of Christ, in reality, many of those divisions were people that split off from the Church of Christ, are not in fellowship, and thus stand on their own, simply because they teach different doctrines. Some churches have adopted the slogan "A Church of Christ". But again, they are different.

The "Mainstream Church of Christ" which some call it, and as it was called in some publications, still stands and is prospering today. When many, such as me, talk about Church of Christ, it is the "Mainstream Church of Christ" that we speak of. We wish those that did split off would change their names so as not to cause confusion.... but people will be people. And while many people write about the Church of Christ, I find most of them do not know the Church of Christ.

One can find out more about the Church of Christ from the following books:

The Church of Christ by Edward Wharton

The Church - The Beautiful Bride of Christ by Garland Elkins and Thomas B. Warren.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264510#Comment_1264510

You nailed it, Sam S.!

We are so divided in the church of Christ that we haven’t even noticed we are guilty of the very same sin we accuse others to commit! Creating our own denominations within the body of Christ! If you cause divisions and then you split that only means you have formed your own little subgroup of perhaps some other subgroup that split centuries ago! There’s simply no way of knowing! What matters is we try to seek God and His Son and the rest will fall into place when God judges all of us in the end.

BTW, the “you” is used in the general sense not pointing at you, you 😂

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264510#Comment_1264510

It is sad, I think, that the very thing that Thomas Campbell sought to do is the very thing we as the Church of Christ are not doing, seeking fellowship, even among our differences, as we seek to grow closer to Christ, in the unity of God’s word.

Good points. And you too, Ryland and DAL.

Personal responsibility for beliefs; just kind of hazy, and I know that was an early principle. But it seems it was still around in the first half of the 20th century. After WWII (I'm probably wrong), there seemed an importance to 'exactly' what believed and then fellowship, etc. (within the cOC). Today, the 'we believe' on the websites are the rules of the road. Last week, I saw a church that went from 'personal responsibility' (with basics), to lined-up-hard. Another one, just down the street, 'Community'd' with lots of social invites, and then put SBC-support in the tiny footnotes.

I suppose it's the times. I'd think Logos would fit quite well in that world (absent the tags/regurgitated concepts).

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264515#Comment_1264515

Thanks, DAL and DMB, for your replies to my comments. You will notice that I have made very few posts through the years. I usually find answers for my concerns about using Logos from others who have asked questions and had them answered by others in the forum. We certainly have a helpful bunch, from all over the world.

Every once in a while, I have something I feel like I can give that is helpful as well. Most of the time though, I am tempted to jump in with my specific belief, challenge, or concern. DMB, many is the time that your distinctive and thought-provoking posts have been the cause of such temptation (I had to bite my proverbial tongue when you mentioned Jacques Derrida a month or so ago). My fear is always that I might say something in a way that comes across as improper, hurtful, or rude, even if that is not my intention. When it comes to debate, I feel more comfortable doing so in person. Therefore, I tend to shy away from debate in the forums, and normally respond to posts when I feel like I can do so in a fairly positive way.

To that end, I will say that you might find James B. North's history of the Restoration Movement, Union in Truth: An Interpretive History of the Restoration Movement, an interesting read. It is not currently available in Logos, but it is one of the books that I would hope to find in a possible Restoration Movement bundle or library if Logos were to offer such a thing in the future.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264536#Comment_1264536

My fear is always that I might say something in a way that comes across as improper, hurtful, or rude, even if that is not my intention.

Thank you, Sam, for the book recommendation. I have Everett's and even Campbell's New Testament (good in Text Comparison). Yours looks good.

Relative to your care in commenting, I hope you won't be offended. But years back, there was a poster called 'Silent Sam'. Whenever he saw someone go off the rails, he'd put in a little frown or similar. Everyone wondered, who was 'Silent Sam'. I suppose he's still alive (hopefully). But yours, and his mysterious solution is appreciated.

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264537#Comment_1264537

[H]

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264512#Comment_1264512

You nailed it, Sam S.!

We are so divided in the church of Christ that we haven’t even noticed we are guilty of the very same sin we accuse others to commit! Creating our own denominations within the body of Christ! If you cause divisions and then you split that only means you have formed your own little subgroup of perhaps some other subgroup that split centuries ago! There’s simply no way of knowing! What matters is we try to seek God and His Son and the rest will fall into place when God judges all of us in the end.

BTW, the “you” is used in the general sense not pointing at you, you 😂

DAL

While some may look at the many "churches" that call themselves "Church of Christ" and say they are all the same, such is not the case. Just like all the 45,000 denominations are not the same. I worked in an office whereby another man had the same name as I... and seems like each year, we got the other's tax forms and such. Problem was, he was black and I was white. He and I both thought that was a big difference.

A church may wear a name.... but then there is the idea of walking the walk. Sometimes that's a big difference. [8-|]

Edit: Same as not everyone that calls themselves a Christian walks the walk of a Christian.

Edit 2: What really amazes me is that as I read the bible, "..... one Lord, one faith, ....." and yet there are 45,000 different thoughts about that... that amazes me.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264537#Comment_1264537

My fear is always that I might say something in a way that comes across as improper, hurtful, or rude, even if that is not my intention.

…But years back, there was a poster called 'Silent Sam'. Whenever he saw someone go off the rails, he'd put in a little frown or similar. Everyone wondered, who was 'Silent Sam'. I suppose he's still alive (hopefully). But yours, and his mysterious solution is appreciated.

😂😂 Great minds think alike 😂😂😂 Silent Sam came to my mind too!

DAL

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264540#Comment_1264540

xnman, and yet you are both human beings.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264543#Comment_1264543

xnman, and yet you are both human beings.

Exactly!

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264545#Comment_1264545

DAL and DMB, I can promise you that people who know me in person would never give me the nickname “silent.”[;)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264500#Comment_1264500

but never read much about Apostolic Church of Armenia, in those writings, other than it was started by St. Gregory around the 4th century and it was supposed to have been founded on the apostles teachings and the Nicene creed. And that came from memory and I'm not sure where I read it. I don't find it associated with the Church of Christ, especially when it followed the Nicene Creed.

The Armenian Church was so established that it became the national church in in 300-301; you are likely thinking of when St. Gregory the Illuminator, a Zoroastrian convert, became the patriarch (catholicos) of the Armenian church. The Armenian church came to mind as a continuous example of a very early church primarily because of friends and acquaintances, refugees and members of the Armenian church who find it difficult to fit into the Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant divisions of the West. But you answered my question; my father had a somewhat different view of history than you which explains some differences.

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264552#Comment_1264552

Also, in an effort to keep this discussion more about Logos:

xnman, we would probably agree on the vast majority of things when it comes to scripture. I'm a member of a church that uses “Christian Church” by name. I gladly share these beliefs with great strength within the confines of my church building or in a social setting that dictates such sharing.

We are in fellowship with a group of churches that also include in some of their names “Church of Christ.” We consider ourselves a conservative part of the Restoration Movement. While we may have some differences in opinion, we all agree on certain precepts. Our differences do not keep us from fellowshipping as brothers in Christ. Opinions should not keep us from sharing with one another and learning from one another.

There is an abundant amount of literature from within the Restoration Movement, both recent and historical, so much more than currently exists in Logos today. How awesome it would be if this material were to be put together in a library within Logos. If we could agree that we could learn from the history of our movement, even from those within our movement that we might disagree with, perhaps we could come up with a list of works that could be shared in such a Restoration Movement library.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264553#Comment_1264553

Ah, yes, Sam ... but I've known a few independent CofC members who deny any connection to the Restoration Movement. Mind you, I really would like to see a Restoration Movement package.

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264555#Comment_1264555

MJ, I know that you do, and I thank you for your championing the idea. I also want to say thank you for everything else you have done through the years to help those who seek to use this software for Bible study. What I have learned from you through the years has aided my Bible study by leaps and bounds.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264555#Comment_1264555

Ah, yes, Sam ... but I've known a few independent CofC members who deny any connection to the Restoration Movement. Mind you, I really would like to see a Restoration Movement package.

I guess I'm one of the ones you talk about as I don't see the Church of Christ connected to the Restoration Movement. But... at the same time I would support a Restoration Movement Package in Logos.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264566#Comment_1264566

I would suggest a collection of the "Restoration Movement" could be made by using the various publishers, Standard Publishing, College Press, Abilene Press, Sweet Publishing and others that I am not as familiar with within our movement. Since we don't really have an earthly main office for communication purposes, it would be a good idea to contact Christian Theological Seminary in Indianapolis, Indiana (Disciples of Christ) and some of our smaller Bible Colleges, such as Central Christian College of the Bible, in Moberly, MO, Ozark Christian College in Joplin, MO and Johnson Christian University, Knoxville, TN for the Independant Christian Churches and Abilene Christian College, Abilene, TX, and Sweet Publishing (if it is still up and running) as a starting point for the churches of Christ.
Feel free to add to these publishing companies and or other Bible Colleges to get further input for a Restoration Movement Collection.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264568#Comment_1264568

You left out Boise Bible College in Boise, Idaho ... the only PNW Bible College remaining as far as I know.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264569#Comment_1264569

You left out Boise Bible College in Boise, Idaho ... the only PNW Bible College remaining as far as I know.

Totally unintentional. I know several of the past faculty members and some of the newer faculty members at Boise...If I recall, there used to be one in Puget Sound and one in Eugene, OR area.

Thank you, MJ, for reminding me that not all of "our" colleges are in the Midwest and the east coast region.

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264570#Comment_1264570

CCCB, definitely! I would love it if Gareth Reese would allow his work to be sold digitally. MACU would be worth contacting as well.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264570#Comment_1264570

Yes, my grandfather attended Eugene, my sister attended Puget Sound, and the president of Boise buried by father.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264574#Comment_1264574

CCCB, definitely! I would love it if Gareth Reese would allow his work to be sold digitally. MACU would be worth contacting as well.

Sam, when CCCB was setting up their Bible Study "package" for students, their representative took one of Reese's commentary for Logos to look at for possible publication...well as you can see, that hasn't happened yet. HOWEVER, he has consented to allowing his bound commentaries to be produced in PDF format. You would need to contact the college and make a "donation" of $100 and you could then download all of his bound commentaries. It isn't usable by Logos, but it does make it more accessible for research purposes.

I will probably be in the forum "jail" for advertising something other than Logos...

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264626#Comment_1264626

Thank you so much for that information, Bill. As an alumnus of CCCB, you would think that I would have heard about that. While our church supports them monthly, I will look into making a personal contribution toward those works. My hope is that having gone this far, they may move toward a version to put into Logos. I would gladly pay for that as well, just to have the usability that Logos brings.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264626#Comment_1264626

I will probably be in the forum "jail" for advertising something other than Logos...

No you won’t be, because Logos doesn’t carry those commentaries and I don’t think they’re planning too — just like they’re not planning on getting the Defending the Faith Study Bible.

So can you private message me so I can get those PDF’s?

Thanks!

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264634#Comment_1264634

Never mind, Bill! I found the website and they sell the PDF’s for $100. There’s no need to contact the college.

DAL

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264636#Comment_1264636

Bill, DAL - I found them and purchased them. Thanks again!

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264648#Comment_1264648

Way to go Sam...hit me up on FB so we alumni of CCCB can help each other.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1264636#Comment_1264636

Enjoy DAL...some mighty fine scholarly study in those PDF files!