I am trying to find the place in the biblical text where the National Restoration of Israel happened. Where can I find this at in the NT?
Why do you assume it happened in the NT?
Jesus demonstrated in the New Covenant that he was the Messiah by keeping all of his promises and going through a torturous death on the Cross. In this way, he earned the right to rule over the world from a restored Israel. I cannot remember this.Salvation had been initiated but not completed with Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension
In this way, he earned the right to rule over the world from a restored Israel.
No offense, but I assume this is the evangelical scholarship, from the 4 choices of your other project?
There are many different views on this. Most people look for books that teach the view they or their denomination has chosen as correct.
The dispensational view had always (erroniously) been that the fig tree in Matt 24 was the national restoration of Israel. So 1948 was the big year under this belief. This led to many speculations and predictions ... all of which failed. You can see this view taught in most of the dispensational commentaries and books.
As far as New Testament references, most who presume a future earthly kingdom would point to verses like Acts 1:6-7, and Romans 11:26. And they will point to Rev 20:1-15 and presume that the 1000 years is an earthly kingdom, even though no events on earth are mentioned in the passage until after it is over. Because these passages and their interpretations are so disputed, there is no definitive answer. Only opinions.
Sorry, John but I need to remind you of the guidelines. On the forums we try to be theologically neutral.
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Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.
Thank you for your cooperation. Enjoy discussing and learning about Logos Bible Software.
Christian, be careful not to post posts that are simply theological statement but rather tie it back to clarifying your original request. Or in this case, obfuscating it even more. Your question is so steeped in unfamiliar theology as to be "theological word salad to me" - not that I object but it does limit the number of people who can reply.
This is hilarious- so don't even think about getting to the truth- everybody's truth is truth- yes- the Apostasy has arrived.
I was being neutral. But if you want to enforce rules, isn't the OP the one beginning a topic that did not ask a Logos related question?
I was being neutral.
Calling something erroneous is not being neutral. Making a statement about 1948 being a fulfillment in dispensational thinking is not correct either.
Christian should look up in logos resources various views on if National Israel was restored and follow his research to a conclusion.
Er... ah ... yes, in computational linguistics "erroneous" and "failed" are always tagged as neutral (I am being facetious). Seriously, you are correct that the forums stretch the rules for the OP, just as we have for a beloved member (now deceased) who had had a stroke or another beloved double-amputee member whose judgment was sometimes impaired by the drugs he took. (I told him to go mow his lawn as the indicator that the drugs were visibly affecting his judgment). If you have special circumstances, the forums are almost always willing to oblige. And, if the OP's impunity for posting OT questions concerns you, feel free, as many do, to simply bypass his posts.
This time, Whyndell, your humor plucked my funny bone as some of the posts are hilarious to those whose theological explorations rarely touch the theological issues discussed. But I must ask for a qualifier:
I do think it is critical to get to an objective truth in so far as is possible for each theological question - and note I said objective. But I'd get no sleep if I tried to correct all the theological errors and misunderstandings I see in the forums. I suspect you would have the same problem. But for Logos to survive as a company it needs its users bright-eyed and bushy-tailed each morning ... hence the need to limit theological debate in the forums.
You are correct that generally calling an opinion erroneous is not neutral. But in this case, those opinions were tied to predictions attached to a particular event (and thus) date in past history. Therefore they can be determined to be logically and factually "erroneous" and it is no longer a matter of opinion.
The OP's question was limited in scope. He wanted answers "in the NT? ". Even so, I referred him to dispensational commentaries (which are Logos resources), and then gave him verse references from the NT.
feel free, as many do, to simply bypass his posts.
As you could bypass mine.
Thank you for your nice comments comparing me to disabled people impaired by drugs. But I will make up my own mind about what to respond to, and what to bypass ... just as you do.
If my posts violate forum rules, the person officially in the administrative role should offer that guidance.
Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums. . . . "Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations . . ." Thank you for your cooperation. . . .
Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums. . . .
"Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations . . ."
Thank you for your cooperation. . . .
Thank you for your nice comments comparing me to disabled people impaired by drugs.
I did not make that comparison. Had I done so and had you known Matthew, you would consider it a compliment.
. Had I done so and had you known Matthew, you would consider it a compliment.
I didn't know Matthew's full struggles. I was sorry when he got rid of his guitars (I think). His family was a blessing.
I posted a reply and now it's been taken down.
Has anyone else experience this?
Bob
Only designated Logos employees could have done this ... I think they usually notify you of the reason.
Yep.
I am trying to find the place in the biblical text where the National Restoration of Israel happened. Where can I find this at in the NT? You cannot find this in the NT.
That's what I was thinking too. Since the OP used a past tense verb ("happened"), I was thinking he was looking for texts where a restoration of Israel had already occurred in biblical time. This would preclude the NT. The only thing that came to my mind was the return of the exiles and rebuilding of the walls in Ezra & Nehemiah.
Acts 1:7
DAL
I never got a reply or notification as to why. I noted the verse and quoted NIV. Maybe I exceeded the words or characters allowed.
Thanks for your time and reply.
I never got a reply or notification as to why. I noted the verse and quoted NIV. Maybe I exceeded the words or characters allowed. Thanks for your time and reply.
Chances are your post got reported; hence, removed. It happens more often than anybody cares to share.
I never got a reply or notification as to why. I noted the verse and quoted NIV. Maybe I exceeded the words or characters allowed. Thanks for your time and reply. Chances are your post got reported; hence, removed. It happens more often than anybody cares to share. DAL
Forum guidelines state "Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics". If you commented on the verse and/or provided an interpretation that could lead to removal of a post.
That seems a little odd, given the context of the question posted on this thread and the various responses. I was merely quoting the verse related to the Restoration of Israel, which is what the inquiry is about.
If this post post gets taken down again, I will contact Logos customer service. I am merely quoting the NT and will not comment further.
Romans 11:25-26
"25 For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you will not be wise ⌊in your own sight⌋,k that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
26 and so all Israel will be saved, just as it is written,"
My reply was as congenial as possible and perhaps a warning would be nice. But these type of censorship is simply disgusting. PERIOD!
I've avoided a direct response to you because of concerns that it could cause a blowup in the thread. I did consider giving you a gentle reminder of the guidelines or reporting you for a strictly theological position post, but I chose to do neither because of the existing tone in the thread. However, given that I was tempted, I would not be surprised if someone else did. I also would not be surprised if Logos was keeping an eye on the thread because of previous posts in it that were also strictly theological posts. Either way, these are their forums to do whatever they deem appropriate to keep them user-friendly to their very broad base.
However, I beg your reconsideration of labeling this as censorship and disgusting. The guidelines were put in place at the request of the forum users with reluctance on the part of Logos. However, they have been successful at making the forums a place where nearly all Logos users feel safe bringing their questions. That previously was not the case to the point that a valued member of the community, an MVP, resigned near Christmas because of a particularly vitriolic post - not because it was directed at him but because as a pastor he did not believe it was appropriate to set an example of being associated with such prejudice. Unfortunately, I understood his position all too well.
Your post was congenial -- no one should question the language and tone of your post. However, it belongs on a forum that permits theological debates; these forums do not. Please accept that with grace ... or, if I can tease a current forumite, it might take a couple of suspensions to make you understand the guidelines are lightly enforced but theological only posts are crossing the line. And, yes, the forumite I am teasing is a very valued member of the community.
I am trying to find the place in the biblical text where the National Restoration of Israel happened.
If you're not limited to the NT, quite a few of the late 2nd Temple writings present Israel as still in exile (during the time period of the NT).
I appreciate the time to respond. I have been following you and I have great respect for you. I have been a logos customer is Logos 4 but barely go on the forum.
I understand about the guidelines. I presumed since the thread is allowed to be left posted, that it would be OK to respond. The question is where in the NT is it referenced of a National Restoration. And my answer was straightforward. I quoted a NT passage and said that this is the passage that some groups use, whether one believes it or not. That is pretty much it. If the thread is allowed to be kept online why would my answer be removed. There are also answers that slightly touch on theological. For crying out loud, Logos is all about theology. So, even a technical feature of Logos may have a touch of theology.
I guess it just hit me at the wrong time. I have tremendous respect for Logos community. I always feel it a privilege to be among God loving and smart people.
But I will take your advice and will steer clear of theological discussion (which I didn't think my post was a theological statement).
