Logos...can you please reduce the friction?
Comments
-
JBR said:
You mean like this?
I'llCan you explain how you did this and on which device you're running this mobile app?
This speaks to my earlier point regarding how you must go to forums, watch YouTube, Morris Proctor, etc., just to do what a Kindle app user can learn to do on their own within two seconds of using the app the first time.
0 -
Sam Shelton said:
Mark A Moore,
I'm so sorry that you're having a hardship getting Logos to work with highlights as you need. I do not know if this will be helpful, but here is a screenshot of how I have set up a study for small groups with the use of a particular commentary. Instead of using highlights for notes, I use a red star to show the location of the notes. I also use a 3-panel layout that includes the Bible version, commentary used, and the notes section. When I click on one of the stars, the note for that star will pop up on the screen. If I click on Edit note, it will open in the notes panel. For my needs, this is much more functional than what kindle offers.
Thanks for this, Sam. I'm familiar with this and have sticky note icons and other things littered throughout. My concern is with all my book highlights and the ability to easily access them and actually see them all laid out in front of me in the mobile app.
0 -
John said:Luuk Dondorp said:
I am already running Logos Mobile plus Kindle plus other apps on a single (Onyx Boox) E-ink device
How does it work for you? Is it usable?
Just for reading: perfect.
0 -
Mark A Moore said:JBR said:
You mean like this?
Can you explain how you did this and on which device you're running this mobile app?
This speaks to my earlier point regarding how you must go to forums, watch YouTube, Morris Proctor, etc., just to do what a Kindle app user can learn to do on their own within two seconds of using the app the first time.
I'm running on a Fire HD 10 Plus with Fire OS 7.3.2.8. The OS is an Android derivative.
Using the second icon on the lower right (layout selection icon) choose the two pane option. Open the book on one side and open your notes on the other side. I have a named notebook called "Books" where I keep the notes for all the monograph books that I read. I tag each note with the name of the book and the author so that I can easily sort my notes in that way. (mea culpa: In this particular case it looks like I missed that I had notes from two books by an author with the name of Bird and mismatched the notes list to the book in reconstructing the example to try and show the visibility of all notes for a particular book.) As the illustration from Sam Shelton shows you can open up a particular note file that goes with a book by clicking on the note icon in the book and then on "Edit note" in the card that pops up.
For God and For Neighbor
0 -
JBR, thanks for your explanation. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. However, your explanation pretty much proves the point in what my original post was about, which is wanting to see Logos reduce the friction in both the reading experience and highlighting in the mobile app and the ability to easily access and see all highlights within a book on the mobile app. The fact that it is not intuitive, and requires explanation is exactly my point.
I followed your explanation to the letter, creating a notebook called “Books” and a tag for an author and then highlighted a couple of sentences and then opened and tagged the note that was created by the highlight (not even remotely a frictionless reading experience as I’ve been comparing to the Kindle app). Following your steps produced this:
As you can see from each progressive screenshot, none of these show the highlights. And if they did, I would still have to stop each time I make a highlight, open the note, and tag it. My screenshot comparison of Logos mobile app vs Kindle app shows the significant differences in which I’m referring to in this topic. I would love nothing more than for you to show me where I messed up the process here or misunderstood your method, JBR.
I’d really love it if someone from Logos read this thread 🤞
0 -
Mark A Moore said:
I would love nothing more than for you to show me where I messed up the process here or misunderstood your method, JBR.
Instead of trying to assess your steps I will simply try and show mine.
I select a text that I want to highlight and maybe add a note.
Then tap the note icon. That opens up a new note.
Notice two things: first is that the Books notebook is already selected at the top left, but if it is not you can select the desired notebook here. You'll also notice from the top right that the icon style and highlight style that indicate the note and highlight in the original document are shown and if you desire different selections for these you can do so right here. Second is that I can end my note, which I've done in a simplified expression in this case.
Now by selecting the three vertical dots on the upper right I can bring up the menu to edit tags.
Next select tags from the list.
Now, or at any point previous, simply select the left arrow at the upper left to go back to the reading screen.
As you can see, your new note is there. Tap outside the card to continue reading and notice that you can also see an updated notes display in the right.
That's it. Yes, I've pointed out several steps in the process. Not all of them are absolutely necessary but they add elements that I find useful when I go back to my notes.
For God and For Neighbor
0 -
Mark,
JBR has shared a process much like the one I use but has explained it much better than I probably could.
I agree with you though that the process would be easier to use if the "friction" in setting things up were to be reduced. While I am not sure, it could be that the difference you see as opposed to what we see may be due to the individual settings we each have within our own Logos set up. Whenever I highlight something to make a note, it automatically adds the highlighted portion into the anchor of the note, becoming part of the note.
Every month or so, a forum member will share something that makes it easier for me to use Logos; I think to myself, “why didn't I see that earlier?” (The adding of tags as shared by JBR is a good example.) The complexity that allows us to do so much, seems to be the very thing that causes friction for some things that we might think should be simpler to do.
The desktop app comes with a number of Quickstart Layouts that make it easier to create layouts for particular needs. A suggestion could be made that such Quickstart Layouts be created for mobile apps, with a number of these layouts dedicated to different styles people may use to read or study individual books — such as Read Book Only, Read with Notes, Read with Notes and Bible, etc. Each of these layouts could include default tagging and other tools that may be needed.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
0 -
JBR, thanks again for taking the time to be so thorough. I really appreciate you doing it. I followed your instructions step by step and this is the result…
As you can see, my notes do not show the actual highlight in the notes. They only show the reference, SSM, and the type of highlight, pencil or blue underline. I‘m wondering if this is because the Logos mobile app on a Kindle Fire works differently than on on iPad? Or is it because I have some setting turned off? This is what Sam Shelton mentioned above, and he could be right. If it’s a setting that I cannot find anywhere, no matter how hard I’ve looked, then this again raises my purpose for this thread, which is the issue of friction related to something so basic and important.
0 -
Here’s another example…
0 -
An earlier version of the app had what you want, I think. Again, it goes back to the fact that Logos is putting ALL of these features into the app.
See screenshot here:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/81938/573258.aspx#573258
0 -
Mark A Moore said:
Here’s another example…
It looks to me that you have a blue underscore selected as your highlight feature. To change that for a specific note tap the A that is on the menu bar of the note at the upper right and make a new selection.
For God and For Neighbor
0 -
Mark,
Click on the down arrow next to the word “Anchors” in your note and see if that doesn't add the anchor text to the anchor portion of the note.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
0 -
Sam - It doesn't.
JBR - I'm not sure why I would want to change the highlight. I understand how to change the highlight tool I'm using, but regardless of it being yellow highlighter or a blue underscore it doesn't show up in the notes as anything other than a symbol and an anchor.
JT - I noticed the link was for a conversation about this same topic back in 2014. That's nine years ago. This is the very thing that frustrates me the most. As I said in my first post, if Logos is never going to improve this because they can't or they just don't care to do it, that's fine and perfectly their right. My frustration is really just in wanting a clear answer from Logos after they express interest in what the users have to say and then indicating that they are going to act upon that feedback. But this is nine years later.
I started this conversation in the hope that someone from Logos would take a look and just give a clear answer. At this point I feel like I'm beginning to sound redundant and I know that written communication doesn't convey tone. To avoid the risk of being misinterpreted as a completely dissatisfied and demanding customer, I'm going to stop raising this issue and just continue enjoying the aspects of Logos that I completely love and have enriched my life and study while continuing to privately live with angst over having books spread out over multiple platforms.
I really appreciate all the time effort you guys have shown in trying to help me. The Logos user community is great!
0 -
Mark A Moore said:
JBR - I'm not sure why I would want to change the highlight. I understand how to change the highlight tool I'm using, but regardless of it being yellow highlighter or a blue underscore it doesn't show up in the notes as anything other than a symbol and an anchor.
Mark, I'm sorry. That's my mistake. I misunderstood what you were asking.
Try selecting the three vertical dots at the upper right if the note. You should get a menu that has an item "Show full anchor text". If it's not checked then tap on it to select it. When it is checked the anchor text, the text that you highlighted for the note, should be shown in the anchor part of the note.
For God and For Neighbor
0 -
For me, the “Show full anchor text” setting is available in my Windows desktop app, but not in my Android app. Also, while I can toggle between showing and not showing the anchor text in my Android app, the default continues to be showing the anchor text. Changing the default in Windows does not appear to affect the settings in my Android app. I cannot speak to whether the setting is available on the apple mobile app.
So, would it be best to consider this a bug, or a needed design request? Fixing this issue would go a long way in my mind, toward making Logos far better for reading books than kindle (and hopefully just as easy).
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
0 -
Mark A Moore said:
JT - I noticed the link was for a conversation about this same topic back in 2014. That's nine years ago. This is the very thing that frustrates me the most. As I said in my first post, if Logos is never going to improve this because they can't or they just don't care to do it, that's fine and perfectly their right. My frustration is really just in wanting a clear answer from Logos after they express interest in what the users have to say and then indicating that they are going to act upon that feedback. But this is nine years later.
Did the screenshot reflect what you want to see? Basically a list of every highlight in its entirety? When I was in seminary, I highlighted my textbooks and then reviewed the highlights prior to exams. For that purpose, and similar ones, my understanding of your request would be ideal.
As I stated earlier, users keep requesting more and more features, which bloats the mobile app. <MY> preference would be for the app to be fairly simple... but there are many users who clamor for ALL the features of the desktop to be added (or even for the desktop app to be ported!).
Logos <does> take user feedback into consideration... but that doesn't mean that they prioritize yours (or my) feedback. To me, your request would be a "no brainer." Hopefully it returns.
Mark A Moore said:I started this conversation in the hope that someone from Logos would take a look and just give a clear answer.
The forums are primarily USER supported platform. It is not a primary means for Logos to communicate with us (although they do from time to time). I don't know if Logos will chime in here... and if I had to choose, I would rather they respond to a group of windows users who can't start the app (a current issue for a couple weeks). However, if your request has not already been made, you should consider creating a "feed bear" request. That is where "official" requests go.
0 -
Here you have captured the merit of this request and apropos the timeliness of it as Logos seeks to streamline its GUI.JT (alabama24) said:When I was in seminary, I highlighted my textbooks and then reviewed the highlights prior to exams. For that purpose, and similar ones, my understanding of your request would be ideal.
I see it being developed as an option for readers.
Be sure to reference this thread while you're at it. You have my vote at least.JT (alabama24) said:if your request has not already been made, you should consider creating a "feed bear" request.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
0 -
Toggle anchor text for notes in mobile apps | Logos
There - my first addition to Logos feedback. Please feel free to vote and add comments.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
0 -
Sam Shelton said:
For me, the “Show full anchor text” setting is available in my Windows desktop app, but not in my Android app. Also, while I can toggle between showing and not showing the anchor text in my Android app, the default continues to be showing the anchor text. Changing the default in Windows does not appear to affect the settings in my Android app. I cannot speak to whether the setting is available on the apple mobile app.
Thanks, Sam. I was going back and forth between my mobile and my desktop in answering and didn't confirm, as I should have, on the mobile what I had seen on the desktop.
In searching the forums I did come across some posts that indicated that the anchor text would only show on the mobile app if the book had been downloaded to the device. I tried removing the download of the book I had used in the images I had shown. That was not enough for me to see the anchor text disappear. But it's still possible, based on some if those other posts, that downloading the book to the device would then allow the anchor text to be visible.
For God and For Neighbor
0 -
JBR,
I did a test by making a note from a book I have not downloaded in my tablet, and I still have the text show in the anchor for the note. It could be different for Apple products. It is possible I suppose that it could also be different depending on the version of Android a user might have. I don’t know if you have had a chance to check my feedback suggestion, but please feel free to vote on it and post any suggestions or changes to it that you may have.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
0 -
Mark A Moore said:
After years of "playing around" with Logos, in which I basically used it as a glorified concordance and dictionary, I finally plunged into the deep end about five years ago and became a "serious" Logos user. As a pastor who spends a significant amount of time reading, studying, preaching, and teaching, learning to utilize Logos has been an enormous blessing for me. And yet, it is a love-hate relationship.
In James Clear's book, Atomic Habits, he says, "Create an environment where doing the right thing is easiest. Reduce the friction associated with good behaviors. When friction is low habit is easy. Increase the friction associated with bad behaviors. When the friction is high habits are difficult. Prime your environment to make future actions easier."
When friction is high habits are difficult. Thus the reason that after five years of using Logos, I still prefer reading Kindle books. It is a given that e-ink display is far superior for sustained reading for hours at a time, and I'm not faulting Logos for not having an e-ink display. That is not my complaint. My complaint is that after all this time Logos has continued to make updates to the mobile app that don't address the primary purpose that most people are using the mobile app, which is simply to read.
When I want to do heavy lifting in Logos, I use my desktop. When I want to read a couple of hundred pages, I want to do so sitting in a chair or airplane on my iPad. Quickly accessing highlights is non-existent. Highlighting more often than not fails to show up, forcing me to close the app and restart it just to see the highlight I just made. All of this causes a friction that makes me not want to do it.
Using the Kindle app is frictionless. It just works. I posted about the inability to easily access highlights in the Logos 8 mobile app forum. It was acknowledged that it was a feature that didn't exist. In the Logos 9 mobile app forum someone raised the issue again. Now we are at Logos 10. It's almost as if no one in the mobile app department has ever used the Kindle app or is unaware of how simple and frictionless it is to use. Read a book, highlight a passage, quickly add a note, quickly tap one button and scroll through every single highlight and note in order (seeing the entire highlight and note), quickly tap the screen and return to page, tap a button at the bottom and quickly scroll through the book while not losing your place...this is the frictionless experience of the Kindle app.
If there is anyone monitoring this at Logos, could you please speak to whether or not the reading experience of Logos books (not sitting at a desk on a computer) but on the go (in elders meetings, small groups, bible studies, etc.) will ever be refined? Will there ever come a day that reading a Logos book will feel frictionless? If this is something Logos is just not interested in doing, that's fine as completely understand that every organization has to have priorities. Having gone from Logos 8 to now 10 with the answer always being, "use the web app on your iPad," I'm just beginning to think that the people that make the mobile app are people who are unaware of the friction that exists when compared to the frictionless experience of the Kindle app.
'Tis sad, but "Tis so true! Well stated.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0
