Pauline Christology

I am working on the way Paul's Christology works in tandem with the Christology of Jesus. My paper must focus on 1 Corinthians. I am noting 1 Cor. 6:3, where Paul asserts that, on the basis of their redemption in Christ, believers will judge angels in the eschatological consummation. Is it correct that Paul’s Christology seems to place Jesus in a category of his own, superior and distinct from angels? How can I confirm this with research?

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Robert Taylor

Just read the New Testament. You don't need any other research on this. Angels are created beings, created by Jesus. Any resource that suggests Paul has a different Christology is wrong, and you don't need any fancy book learning to refute it.

I know that we aren't supposed to get into theological discussions here, but if we can't even state the simple truth that Jesus is God and Angels aren't, then we are in a sad state.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269129#Comment_1269129

but if we can't even state the simple truth that Jesus is God and Angels aren't,

While I happen to agree that Jesus is God and angels aren't, there are non-trinitarian Christians on the forums. We are in a sad state if we don't recognize that in this particular circumstance, we need to make them feel welcome. We can do so while acknowledging that for the majority of Christians, a trinitarian view is the norm.

Ken McGuire

One way of using Logos to inform the discussion is to look at how Paul uses "kyrios". How much of this is based on Roman usage where Caesar is Lord, and how much is based on Jewish understanding that the God of Israel is Lord? Is Paul consistent? Is he intentional, or is it just an accidental seed of later Trinitarian teaching?

And, of course, what all is Paul saying in 1 Cor 15?

Over history people have had different answers to these questions, but Logos search can help you find the passages as well as where these passages are referenced in your library.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269136#Comment_1269136

but if we can't even state the simple truth that Jesus is God and Angels aren't,

While I happen to agree that Jesus is God and angels aren't, there are non-trinitarian Christians on the forums. We are in a sad state if we don't recognize that in this particular circumstance, we need to make them feel welcome. We can do so while acknowledging that for the majority of Christians, a trinitarian view is the norm.

It is one thing to make someone feel welcome. It is something else when we sacrifice truth to do it. When we sacrifice truth to make someone feel welcome, then we have chosen to follow the ways of the world. Christians should be kind, should be humble, should show love. But never sacrifice the truth that Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God and there is only one God. Never! Edit: [And I don't think "patronizing" anyone is anything more than "silently" agreeing with them. We should try to help anyone with this "complex and complicated monster" of bible software called Logos..., kindly, humbly and with love, but not to the point that I have to shed my faith to do so. If Logos demands that, then I'm out of here.]

What have we become when deny the very truths that the New Testament teaches?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269175#Comment_1269175

What have we become when deny the very truths that the New Testament teaches?

The very truths you espouse are liberal opinions to those to the right of you. That's one of the big benefits of a good Logos library; to understand just how much is interpretation (aka multiple churches on Main Street).

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269180#Comment_1269180

What have we become when deny the very truths that the New Testament teaches?

The very truths you espouse are liberal opinions to those to the right of you. That's one of the big benefits of a good Logos library; to understand just how much is interpretation (aka multiple churches on Main Street).

And we could keep saying all truths is clouded because there is somewhere another opinion to the right (or left)? This is just a "circle theory" to which we could say there is no truth?

2+2 still equals 4 and only 4.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269175#Comment_1269175

What have we become when deny the very truths that the New Testament teaches?

No one is asked to deny anything - that is a strawman argument. I think of it in terms of hubris and manners ...although for some it is simply the result of an insular existence. The latter quickly see the point. For an occasional person or two it is mental illness; I can think of only 1 who was removed for that reason.

And I don't think "patronizing" anyone is anything more than "silently" agreeing with them.

I'm glad I don't hold this view. If I did, I would be agreeing with a great deal of heresy and harmful ignorance even among those with whom I basically agree. I would have to leave the forums. I prefer the approach of encouraging that which is true to flourish rather than worrying about all the falsity which I know will slowly be strangled by the truth. Getting rid of falsity before preparation required for truth is a recipe for fertile ground for cults in the negative sense of the term.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269215#Comment_1269215

What have we become when deny the very truths that the New Testament teaches?

No one is asked to deny anything - that is a strawman argument. I think of it in terms of hubris and manners ...although for some it is simply the result of an insular existence. The latter quickly see the point. For an occasional person or two it is mental illness; I can think of only 1 who was removed for that reason.

And I don't think "patronizing" anyone is anything more than "silently" agreeing with them.

I'm glad I don't hold this view. If I did, I would be agreeing with a great deal of heresy and harmful ignorance even among those with whom I basically agree. I would have to leave the forums. I prefer the approach of encouraging that which is true to flourish rather than worrying about all the falsity which I know will slowly be strangled by the truth. Getting rid of falsity before preparation required for truth is a recipe for fertile ground for cults in the negative sense of the term.

aaah! Little lady, the debate you and I could have! I have a friend where he and I "discuss" things and often disagree .... we've done it for years. But I am privileged to be able to call him friend. I would hope the same between you and I. [8-|]

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269234#Comment_1269234

aaah! Little lady, the debate you and I could have! I have a friend where he and I "discuss" things and often disagree .... we've done it for years. But I am privileged to be able to call him friend. I would hope the same between you and I.

It is one thing to have these debates between friends who love and respect each other. It is another thing entirely when reacting to people you semi-anonymously run into on the internet. This is a forum provided by a business to help users with their software, and so SHOULD be helpful and maybe even welcoming to all those users, even if they have a theological opinion different from my own.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269260#Comment_1269260

aaah! Little lady, the debate you and I could have! I have a friend where he and I "discuss" things and often disagree .... we've done it for years. But I am privileged to be able to call him friend. I would hope the same between you and I.

It is one thing to have these debates between friends who love and respect each other. It is another thing entirely when reacting to people you semi-anonymously run into on the internet. This is a forum provided by a business to help users with their software, and so SHOULD be helpful and maybe even welcoming to all those users, even if they have a theological opinion different from my own.

Duly noted. Thanks.

Beloved Amodeo

I am working on the way Paul's Christology works in tandem with the Christology of Jesus. My paper must focus on 1 Corinthians. I am noting 1 Cor. 6:3, where Paul asserts that, on the basis of their redemption in Christ, believers will judge angels in the eschatological consummation.

I am a literate layman. I have no formal training in any denomination. Rhyming with Robert Taylor the Bible does not contradict itself. If you want answers to Biblical questions seek them in the text.

If you are called upon to make a defense from a particular letter, then do that. 1Co will nicely prove itself a trustworthy source of consistency with itself. Read the text closely. Don't interpret scripture out of context. Scripture is in unity with itself. Your job is to find a consistent argument that you can defend with the text.

You have experience with me. I'm not going to give you an answer you can find on your own. If this discourse has wasted your time forgive me it was offered honestly to prod you in the right direction.

If you prefer I not offer my help, let me know I'll stop.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269234#Comment_1269234

Little lady, the debate you and I could have!

There might be a little problem. My son would gladly slap you for the "little lady" bit. "LOL" but for real. My "rules of debate" as taught to me by my father.

it is fair and sometime even fun to use the single exception to disapprove a general statement.
listen and then respond to what was actually said not what you expected to be said.
if asked a specific question - answer that specific question or admit you don't know ... this is a great rule for keeping you from simply parroting back what you have heard or read.
if you are using a word in an unusual way, warn people by giving your definition before using the word.
be quick to acknowledge when your line of argument is shown to be BS - based on faulty logic, false premises, or sheer bias. Why? because it is your argument not your conclusion that has been proven false.

Yes, I listened to some mighty strong arguments between my Dad (elder) and his double cousin (deacon) - a farmer and a lumberjack both in their 30's who would put many in these forums to shame. Arguments could fill an entire Sunday afternoon - a trait I associate with the unaffiliated Churches of Christ.