ChatGPT Generates Fake Bible Verse
A vlog came out from Answers in Genesis about ChatGPT being asked to make a fake Bible verse to support transgenderism which one can see below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzeZGzdg08I
With that development, I'm reminded of a long lost thread about Logos being on the AWS platform and the concern that AWS could call the Bible hate speech and limit its reach.
This just reminds me, first of all, that we need to know the word of God for ourselves (and that we need to keep physical books as well). It is so easy to rely on the "Fuzzy Search" or other great search engines that Logos provides.
Second, it causes me concern about the "security " of Logos. What's to say that AWS or something else won't try to change Scripture and try to warp Logos? I can already see the replies: "Oh, this will never happen because...", and yet can we agree that much has changed in our lives over the past few years? I, for one, wouldn't put anything past those who think that they are in control (Proverbs 16:9; 19:21; etc).
I will be "out of the net" until late Tuesday night, but I do look forward to all the replies.
God bless you all, and thank you so much to the Logos staff for the great software! Richard
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I fear my response is not what you want: a shrug of shoulders at how differently we interpret the data and wondering what this has to do with the software, resources, or subject matter of Logos. And, no, my attitude is not a blinders approach, it is a prioritization of potential futures based on probabilities, the severity of the effects, and the potential of people to decrease the danger. Otherwise, I let God be God ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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With regard to the completely relevant and justified concern about anything on the internet, whether it is bible software, file storage, search engines, social media, etc.: The last several years have taught the alert to never underestimate the chutzpah of the Left. Ever.
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My non-excited alternate reply:
[Droopy the Dog doing his Phil Esterhaus impression] "Let'a be careful out there"
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Robert M. Warren said:
The last several years have taught the alert to never underestimate the chutzpah of the Left.
Politics DO NOT belong on the forums. Period.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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My second alternate reply (tryin' to please):
rksaw said:ChatGPT being asked to make a fake Bible verse to support transgenderism
I wonder who would want to do such a thing and what might be their ultimate motivation for faking a bible verse? I just can't think of any group like that.
rksaw said:What's to say that AWS or something else won't try to change Scripture and try to warp Logos?
I noticed a couple of years ago that social media platform Parler's app was removed from Apple & Google and Amazon quickly deleted their files on AWS, which caused the platform to go dark. I wonder who in the world would want to orchestrate such a thing? I'm completely flummoxed. I guess it was just a series of unrelated and unlikely coincidences. Since Logos uses both app stores and might also still use AWS, I hope such a series of puzzling coincidences doesn't befall them.
There. No p0l1t1c$.
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Robert M. Warren said:
I wonder who would want to do such a thing ...
Probably the same, who sang about the three oriental kings ... now who could that be?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Robert M. Warren said:
I wonder who in the world ..."
I am reporting your abuse but not in a manner that I expect action.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Robert M. Warren said:
I wonder who in the world ..."
I am reporting your abuse but not in a manner that I expect action.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system ... help, help, I'm being repressed!
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Ummm, the number of times I've heard preachers generate fake Bible verses is, uh, not small.
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"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Robert, your response, especially the second half of it, was exactly what I was thinking of. I remember when Parlor was deleted and am mildly concerned about a reaction toward Logos and its Biblical content if they ever so choose. Considering that we have an enemy, the devil, who despises us and will do everything in his power to destroy us, I would never put anything past him. I'm just glad that we can with confidence say "Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."
In regard to "who would do such a thing", the AIG vlog is interesting to listen to.
God bless, Rich
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Parler as a political site supporting insurrection has NOTHING to do with Faithlife which stays within the rules of the hosting agreement. Politics NEVER belongs on Logos. Please take your political fears elsewhere.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm sorry that you got the impression that this is about politics, it is not. It is about what those in authority deem acceptable or questionable. I know that Faithlife "plays by the rules", but who's to say that one day Romans 1 is denounced as "hate speech" by AWS or others? Who's to say that the rules won't be changed in the middle of the game? It has already happened in other spheres.
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rksaw said:
I'm sorry that you got the impression that this is about politics, it is not. It is about what those in authority deem acceptable or questionable. I know that Faithlife "plays by the rules", but who's to say that one day Romans 1 is denounced as "hate speech" by AWS or others? Who's to say that the rules won't be changed in the middle of the game? It has already happened in other spheres.
Welll.... I for one believe that in many areas of the world and now even in the USA, Christians are viewed as "hate speech" proponents. Canada is dealing harshly with churches, "Woke", "Transgender", "LGPT" people are against Romans 1 and others... etc. So, I see nothing wrong with using forums to provide real warnings to other Christians, especially when so many on these forums advocate that Logos get more into A.I.
I also appreciated seeing postings in this thread and other threads... when people point out that there is no excuse for knowing God's word in our hearts. Big amen to that!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
Canada is dealing harshly with churches,
Where are you finding your information? My niece's husband is a chaplain in the Canadian Armed Services (he has dual citizenship). He found this claim very funny.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:xnman said:
Canada is dealing harshly with churches,
Where are you finding your information? My niece's husband is a chaplain in the Canadian Armed Services (he has dual citizenship). He found this claim very funny.
Many will find it funny. But not long ago in the news...there was a pastor in Canada that was arrested for having his congregation meet during COVID. I will have to look it up as I don't remember dates of the event. And something like this happened in California.... and the pastor sued and I believe it was the state of CA that had to pay 3 pastors each a large sum. Like I said... it was in the news.... I just don't remember dates.
Personally, I don't think things like this is funny at all. I think they are alarming!
Edit: here are some of the churches that the government oppressed....this is in the USA...
- Grace Community Church in California - fined $8000 for violating state bans on indoor singing and gatherings.
- Calvary Chapel in California - fined $10,500 for indoor worship services with unmasked congregants.
- Church of God in Louisiana - fined $5,000 for violating state cap on gatherings.
- Berean Baptist Church in Kentucky - fined over $12,000 for continuing large gatherings.
- Temple Baptist Church in Mississippi - fined $500 initially and $1,000 for repeat violations of mask mandates.
- Abundant Life Church in New York - fined $2000 for illegal gathering size.
- Chicago churches - over $13,000 in total fines issued to churches for capacity limit breaches.
Edit 2: This was found on Chat A.I. .....
Grace Community Church in California was sued by the state of California and Los Angeles County in 2020 for violating public health orders during the COVID-19 pandemic. The church had defied orders to limit church attendance and had continued to hold in-person services.
The lawsuit was settled in September 2021, with the state and county agreeing to pay the church $800,000 in legal fees. The church also agreed to comply with future public health orders.
The settlement was seen as a victory for the church, which had argued that its First Amendment rights were being violated by the restrictions. However, some critics argued that the settlement sent the wrong message and could encourage other churches to defy public health orders.
Edit 3: Again found on Chat A.I. .....
Yes, Canada has prosecuted churches on several occasions. Here are is an example:
- In 2021, the government of Manitoba announced that it would be launching a class-action lawsuit against the Anglican Church for its role in the residential school system.
- In British Columbia, three pastors were fined a total of $55,200 for holding in-person services in violation of provincial public health orders.
- In Ontario, a church in Waterloo Region was fined $52,000 for holding a large in-person service in early 2021.
- In Manitoba, a church in southern Manitoba was fined $30,000 for repeatedly breaking public health orders on gatherings.
These are just a few examples of the ways in which Canada has prosecuted churches.
I do think that when a church, any church, breaks certain laws, like sex abuse and such, yes they should be held accountable and the persons involved should be prosecuted. But I do not believe a government anywhere, should be able to close the doors or shut down a church.
I don't think these examples are funny! Like I said, I think they are alarming!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Sorry I had to delete my reply.
I was drawn in to a discussion that has nothing to do with the resources available from Faithlife nor the use of the Logos Software.
My apologies for momentarily misappropriating the facility that has been provide for the purposes above.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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MJ. Smith said:xnman said:
Canada is dealing harshly with churches,
Where are you finding your information? My niece's husband is a chaplain in the Canadian Armed Services (he has dual citizenship). He found this claim very funny.
Subjects in the water display varying sensitivities to the impending boiling and, therefore, attempt to leap from the pot after varying durations.
The following link is to an Ezra Institute analysis of Canadian Bill C-4 2021. 'Conversion' is the operative word in the phrase 'Conversion Therapy'. The bill provides for immediate removal from the internet of audio/video material and advertisements relating to 'conversion therapy'.
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I have one of those fancy (not so) new steam dryers, so that instead of having to repress my clothes, I find that I have more time to study God's Word. I have found Logos (and the wonderful advice for using Logos that I find on this forum) especially helpful in that endeavor.DMB said:Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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Sam Shelton said:
I have one of those fancy (not so) new steam dryers, so that instead of having to repress my clothes, I find that I have more time to study God's Word. I have found Logos (and the wonderful advice for using Logos that I find on this forum) especially helpful in that endeavor.DMB said:What a neat segue. A word that produces no hits when entered into the search bar in 'Factbook'. Boy! keeping this on point is hard work. ;-)
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks said:
A word that produces no hits when entered into the search bar in 'Factbook'.
That has been one of my serious gripes about Factbook. More efficient laundry methods, to increase Bible study.
Even the NT writers recognized laundry (and well-dipping) as significant opportunites for spreading the Good News (a bygone goal of Christians). Unfortunately, I'm one of those crazy people that enjoys ironing (it's amazing), so Logos suffers a little. Listen to the Text instead.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I think the narrative that we are experiencing persecution in the west is based generally on a misunderstanding of what real persecution looks like though.MJ. Smith said:xnman said:Canada is dealing harshly with churches,
Where are you finding your information? My niece's husband is a chaplain in the Canadian Armed Services (he has dual citizenship). He found this claim very funny.
Having been to the missions field, I can say with certainty - go live in a Hindu part of India, arabia, or Muslim west Africa for a bit. Or just read Nik Ripkin's Insanity of God (Which is a terrible name for a fantastic book about coping with some of the deeper questions of the faith amidst hardship, loss, and persecution) to re-frame what persecution really is.
In the mean time go give logos 14$ and pick up this title.
https://www.logos.com/product/29541/the-insanity-of-god-a-true-story-of-faith-resurrected
There are a lot of neat interviews with people actually living under pretty intense persecution from christians in Somalia during the humanitarian crisis in the 90s, to christians in current and former soviet nations, muslim countries, and even china.
Even if you disagree with his theology, its worth knowing things like this: There are places in china that are so desperate for the word of God that when they get even a few pages of the book of numbers they openly weep. Humbling, and heart breaking stuff.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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As to the original post, asking Chat GPT (or whichever) to make something fake, and then it making something fake, seems like it's operating as expected.
Asking for something true, and getting something fake is the real concern there for me when it comes to Logos.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Here are a few links from a simple search of "Canadian Pastor Arrested for Hate Speech":
https://www.foxnews.com/world/pastor-spends-easter-jail-after-another-arrest-drag-queen-event
https://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20220301/canada-pastors (From this article comes an interesting quote: "While striking, Canada's suppression of pastors shouldn't surprise us. Jesus himself predicted, "'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you" (John 15:20). Of course, we shouldn't invite persecution by willfully committing crimes. "It is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil" (1 Peter 3:17). As sinners persecuted Jesus without cause (John 15:25), so they will persecute those who follow in his footsteps. "Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" (2 Timothy 3:12).")
And then when doing a search on Americans arrested we find the following:
https://www.newsweek.com/christians-arrested-preaching-gospel-wisconsin-video-lgbtq-pride-1816965
https://nypost.com/2023/06/11/charges-dropped-against-shouting-preacher-at-pride-flag-raising/
If you noticed, I'm not relying solely on "right leaning websites", but pointing out what has begun to happen to those willing to stand up for Christ in a perverted world. Even more can be said for those in the UK, throughout Africa, and Southeast Asia.
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The real point of my original post was that we need to ensure that we have hidden God's word in our hearts, and that we are not easily swayed when we hear something that "sounds Biblical". How many still think that "cleanliness is next to godliness", or "God helps those who help themselves"?
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abondservant said:
I think the narrative that we are experiencing persecution in the west is based generally on a misunderstanding of what real persecution looks like though.
I agree completely. In my mind I ran through a funny case of "persecution" when our green swags for Christmas had the wrong type of fire retardant and we had 4 hours to fix the problem or have our doors shuttered and compared our problem with that of a Chinese bishop Ignatius Kung who spent more than 3 decades in Chinese prisons, rejoicing that he had to memorize all 150 psalms in his first year of seminary which gave him a link to the Church no communist jailer could take away. I've known three people who've gone to work in foreign countries only to be broken by the cruelity and persecution they saw.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:abondservant said:
I think the narrative that we are experiencing persecution in the west is based generally on a misunderstanding of what real persecution looks like though.
I agree completely. In my mind I ran through a funny case of "persecution" when our green swags for Christmas had the wrong type of fire retardant and we had 4 hours to fix the problem or have our doors shuttered and compared our problem with that of a Chinese bishop Ignatius Kung who spent more than 3 decades in Chinese prisons, rejoicing that he had to memorize all 150 psalms in his first year of seminary which gave him a link to the Church no communist jailer could take away. I've known three people who've gone to work in foreign countries only to be broken by the cruelity and persecution they saw.
Having done a seminary internship with actual refugees who were truly persecuted for their faith (tortured, blinded, families left behind still in danger, etc.) I find the fake, whiny, persecution complex prevalent in the U.S. highly offensive and frustrating.
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I agree with both of you.Kiyah said:MJ. Smith said:abondservant said:I think the narrative that we are experiencing persecution in the west is based generally on a misunderstanding of what real persecution looks like though.
I agree completely. In my mind I ran through a funny case of "persecution" when our green swags for Christmas had the wrong type of fire retardant and we had 4 hours to fix the problem or have our doors shuttered and compared our problem with that of a Chinese bishop Ignatius Kung who spent more than 3 decades in Chinese prisons, rejoicing that he had to memorize all 150 psalms in his first year of seminary which gave him a link to the Church no communist jailer could take away. I've known three people who've gone to work in foreign countries only to be broken by the cruelity and persecution they saw.
Having done a seminary internship with actual refugees who were truly persecuted for their faith (tortured, blinded, families left behind still in danger, etc.) I find the fake, whiny, persecution complex prevalent in the U.S. highly offensive and frustrating.
Seeing a man become a believer in Jesus Christ, fearful that his wife turn him into the mosque, and then the man turn up dead under suspicious circumstances certainly puts a different spin on things.
We (the west) are the freest corner of the globe when it comes to our faith. I hope everyone checks out the book. I have met the author, and have a deep respect for him, and the journey the Lord took him on in Somalia, and around the world. If nothing else there is the sweet love story of him and his wife, and their story on the missions field. where the missions field kind of ground them up and spat them out after a couple of decades. The last half of the book - where he interviews people undergoing real persecution is incredibly eye opening.
This is a controversial thing to think, but then I'm a pastor, and helping people be more like Christ is part of that. But, based on what I read and experienced of what christians are like who are undergoing the most extreme persecution? We need more depth of faith and character like they have in the western church, and if that means a bit of persecution need to come our way, than to quote Job, "The Lord gave, and the Lord took away, Blessed be the name of the Lord". I hope not. The thought of raising kids in that context is heart breaking. But it's possibly the medicine the western church needs.
If someone wants to go political, all I can say about that is God raises up leaders for our blessing and our punishment. I don't really identify as left or right any more. The church in America has been embroiled in pettiness, and sexual madness from the need for #metoo, through a hundred other things. We've failed to reach the youngest generations from the metrics I have read, and more and more churches across tradition lines are closing their doors. At the current rate, there will be fewer pastors than churches within the next decade in my denomination even if you include all the pastors currently in training inside and outside my denomination.
And to quote Nik Ripken, "90% of people born in the church, raised in the church, and that will die in the church will never share the truth outside the doors of the church".
Perhaps then we as a church have earned a punishment - regardless if the elephant or donkey wins.
And buy that book... In all my years on this forum, I've never came across a book I've pushed people to buy, but this one had such a profound and positive affect on me, that here I am pushing it.
Edit: I tried to keep my tradition and theological positions out of it. but apologies if some leaks through any way. My goal was a neutral tone from and towards all traditions, and not to just speak from mine.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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xnman said:
- In Ontario, a church in Waterloo Region was fined $52,000 for holding a large in-person service in early 2021.
- In Manitoba, a church in southern Manitoba was fined $30,000 for repeatedly breaking public health orders on gatherings.
This was to keep covid from spreading, so I agree with this shutting down. The church pastors should have enough wisdom to go on-line in this case.
I say this as a Canadian + a former Manitoba resident.
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Kiyah said:MJ. Smith said:abondservant said:
I think the narrative that we are experiencing persecution in the west is based generally on a misunderstanding of what real persecution looks like though.
I agree completely. In my mind I ran through a funny case of "persecution" when our green swags for Christmas had the wrong type of fire retardant and we had 4 hours to fix the problem or have our doors shuttered and compared our problem with that of a Chinese bishop Ignatius Kung who spent more than 3 decades in Chinese prisons, rejoicing that he had to memorize all 150 psalms in his first year of seminary which gave him a link to the Church no communist jailer could take away. I've known three people who've gone to work in foreign countries only to be broken by the cruelity and persecution they saw.
Having done a seminary internship with actual refugees who were truly persecuted for their faith (tortured, blinded, families left behind still in danger, etc.) I find the fake, whiny, persecution complex prevalent in the U.S. highly offensive and frustrating.
I think that if you mean people who equate their inconveniences with real suffering, you are correct.
But, if you mean that because person A’s concerns being < person B’s concern mean person A should shut up, then you should consider this: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4/28/2165108/-Logical-Fallacy-Bootcamp-The-Fallacy-of-Relative-Privation
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David Wanat said:
I think that if you mean people who equate their inconveniences with real suffering, you are correct.
But, if you mean that because person A’s concerns being < person B’s concern mean person A should shut up, then you should consider this: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4/28/2165108/-Logical-Fallacy-Bootcamp-The-Fallacy-of-Relative-Privation
I think basic reading comprehension and not putting words in people's mouths is helpful. What I mean is what I said. The clue is the contrast between the words "truly persecuted for their faith" vs. "fake persecution complex".
Also, something can be more than a mere inconvenience but still not constitute actual persecution for one's faith. You could just be getting held accountable for doing something wrong (which scripture warns Christians against). The accountability can be more than an inconvenience but still not represent persecution for your faith. The question is is the punishment for your actual confession of Christ or because you broke a law and are being punished just like anyone else would be regardless of their faith? Is the law targeted against Christians or is everyone expected to follow it? Does the law violate God's law or just your custom or way of doing things? Ethical issues are more complex than the dichotomy of "inconvenience vs. suffering" you set up. You could truly be suffering, but not because of your Christian confession, maybe you just broke a law you should have followed. Maybe you made the wrong ethical choice and are being held accountable.
(I'm not going to debate COVID public health responses with anyone on the forums. I'm speaking generically. What I'm saying can apply beyond COVID.)
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David Wanat said:
But, if you mean that because person A’s concerns being < person B’s concern mean person A should shut up,
So much of Jesus' teaching really aren't good for today's Christians. When you're stomping the sinners (bull-horns work great), Jesus is just some verses.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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MJ. Smith said:
Politics DO NOT belong on the forums. Period.
A denial of religious persecution in North America, either by way of amusing anecdote or by way of ridicule, is political.
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MJ. Smith said:
Parler as a political site supporting insurrection
This is a political statement, in addition to being factually incorrect. There was no insurrection in Washington D.C. on January 6, 2021. Not one single person has been convicted of, or criminally charged with, insurrection. One Federal prosecutor explained that it was too difficult to obtain a conviction for insurrection. If there were no insurrectionists, there was no insurrection. This is irrespective of how often one hears the term misapplied for emotional effect. Your choice to parrot poorly-chosen sources of information is, of course, your business.
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Kiyah said:
(I'm not going to debate COVID public health responses with anyone on the forums. I'm speaking generically. What I'm saying can apply beyond COVID.)
Im also speaking generically. My point is there can be legitimate complaints that are less than the level of persecution. There can also be people who inflate inconvenience. We must not confuse them.
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DMB said:David Wanat said:
But, if you mean that because person A’s concerns being < person B’s concern mean person A should shut up,
So much of Jesus' teaching really aren't good for today's Christians. When you're stomping the sinners (bull-horns work great), Jesus is just some verses.
im not clear as to what this has to do with my point.
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David Wanat said:
im not clear as to what this has to do with my point.
What was Jesus' recommendation concerning your point?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Let me give a friendly reminder of the forum guidelines.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Let me give a friendly reminder of the forum guidelines.
Sorry Mark,
I thought I was just raising an interesting point. I didn't mean to start a fight. (Sarcasm off)
Thank you guys for all of your hard work at FaithLife,
Rich
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