Trying to do a lemma search with a range and an exclusion

Hi, so I am trying to search the NT for the lemma anabaino where there is a place within the range of 20 words but that place is not Jerusalem. I've tried to watch videos and run multiple searches, but I cannot figure it out. Can someone help me? Thanks.

Find more posts tagged with

Desktop App

Comments

Graham Criddle

Hi Brett

so I am trying to search the NT for the lemma anabaino where there is a place within the range of 20 words but that place is not Jerusalem

The search string lemma.g:ἀναβαίνω WITHIN 20 WORDS (louwNida:93.389-479 OR louwNida:93.481-615) gets close as below:

Some comments:

Louw-Nida tagging between 93.389 and 98.615 relate to places with 98.480 specifically referring to Jerusalem, hence the construction
But this still shows, for example, Acts 25:1 which is matching on a different place but the verse still includes Jerusalem. Is this a problem for you?
Jews is identified as a search result in, for example, John 5:1. This is because this word is tagged in Louw-Nida as a place "pertaining to Judea
I have set the search to be constrained to verse boundaries. If you change it to chapter (it's an option at the top of the search panel) you will get more results where the lemma and the place are in different verses but still within 20 words of each other

Does this help at all?

Graham

Brett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271055#Comment_1271055

Graham,

Thanks so much for your help. Yes, I see how that seems to accomplish what I am looking for. Originally I tried to construct a search like:

lemma.g:ἀναβαίνω WITHIN 20 WORDS place:ANY ANDNOT place:Jerusalem

Is doing that sort of search simply impossible such that it's necessary to do the roundabout way or have I simply constructed it incorrectly?

Thanks so much,

Brett

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271074#Comment_1271074

lemma.g:ἀναβαίνω WITHIN 20 WORDS place:ANY ANDNOT place:Jerusalem

Is doing that sort of search simply impossible such that it's necessary to do the roundabout way or have I simply constructed it incorrectly?

The problem with the search string is that place:ANY is not a valid search term. The place needs to be a specified place not a catchall.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271074#Comment_1271074

Thanks so much for your help. Yes, I see how that seems to accomplish what I am looking for. Originally I tried to construct a search like:

A slight modification that excludes Jews (93.487) and has a nother verb for "went":

(lemma.g:μεταβαίνω OR lemma.g:ἀναβαίνω) WITHIN 20 WORDS (louwNida:93.389-479 OR louwNida:93.481-486 OR louwNida:93.488-615)

lemma.g:ἀναβαίνω WITHIN 20 WORDS place:ANY ANDNOT place:Jerusalem

The Search syntax is found at https://wiki.logos.com/New_Search_HELP

Brett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271076#Comment_1271076

Hmm. That's interesting because if I use clause search I can do the following search and receive results:

verb-lemma:ἀναβαίνω AND place:ANY

The problem is that if I try to do a proximity search in clause search then it doesn't work:

verb-lemma:ἀναβαίνω WITHIN 20 WORDS place:ANY

So it's odd to me that I can do a proximity search under one search function but then cannot use the place:ANY search term and under the other I can use the place:ANY search term but cannot do a proximity search.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271121#Comment_1271121

Hmm. That's interesting because if I use clause search I can do the following search and receive results:

verb-lemma:ἀναβαίνω AND place:ANY

The problem is that if I try to do a proximity search in clause search then it doesn't work:

verb-lemma:ἀναβαίνω WITHIN 20 WORDS place:ANY

The wiki I linked states it is for "specifically the Bible, Books and Morph types" of Search.

If you type place in the Search box, Clause search is the only one that suggests place:ANY and place:NONE. It has its own distinct syntax, as does Syntax search (which is graphical). The Search syntax (Bible, Books and Morph) changed dramatically from Logos 10 and many more types of Search were made available e.g. All, Media, Docs, Maps. So it is best to click on the Sidebar and read the Search Helps (when the Search box is blank) first.

It is confusing and takes some time to learn the differences e.g. Clause does not have proximity because the search terms are limited to grammatical clauses (find type:Clause resources in Library). Most of the other types are Text searches where proximity is needed. Syntax search is graphical and is the ultimate clause search with other attributes like Phrase, Sentence.

Brett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271124#Comment_1271124

Thanks so much for this help. I will look into those things more.

If anyone else has insight into these sort of search that doesn't need to use the roundabout way of lexicon entries, I would be happy to hear about it.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271383#Comment_1271383

If anyone else has insight into these sort of search that doesn't need to use the roundabout way of lexicon entries, I would be happy to hear about it.

"these sort of search" in conjunction with "roundabout way" is too general to answer. Please clarify.

Brett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271503#Comment_1271503

Happy to. I simply meant a search like above where you are trying to include all of a class (place, people, etc.), but exclude one or more members. By not in a roundabout way I mean not having to use lexicon entries in order to do that.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1272322#Comment_1272322

By not in a roundabout way I mean not having to use lexicon entries in order to do that.

It depends upon what you wish to exclude. Using lexicon entries is NOT a roundabout way - it is often both the most direct way and the only way. To put it in perspective, always compare what you would have to do in a paper Bible. Classes don't appear in the paper Bible at all - you have to mentally assign the class when you select/don't select the word. Logos tags classes for us. Then we use those classes rather than mentally deciding case by case if it falls within a class. We combined classes with logical operations (and, or, not) to get a personalized class. Sometimes that personalization is done most efficiently by lexicon entries, sometime by lists, . . . . There is no set pattern for defining the lemma range and the lemma exclusion. It depends on what you are working with.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1272322#Comment_1272322

Happy to. I simply meant a search like above where you are trying to include all of a class (place, people, etc.), but exclude one or more members. By not in a roundabout way I mean not having to use lexicon entries in order to do that.

The strategy for the OP was to find (know!) a class of data for Places and then exclude the place requested. If we had an Any value then the natural thought would be place:Any NOT place:Jerusalem. But this is a common trap that will exclude both Jerusalem and any other Place that is mentioned in the Verse (where a Bible Search is conducted by Verse). The strategy should be place:Any NOT INTERSECTS place:Jerusalem.

More realistically, Jesus NOT INTERSECTS "Jesus Christ" which does not allow the phrase "Jesus Christ" (but "Lord Jesus" may appear in the result).