The Light of Nature

Many many years ago when I was starting out on my Vision Quest the study of Christianity was on my list. I had a New English Bible at the time and studied passages from it.

The passage that's stuck out to me at the time was from Romans 2:14- 16:

Romans 2:14–16 (NEB): 14 When Gentiles who do not possess the law carry out its precepts by the light of nature, then, although they have no law, 15 they are their own law, for they display the effect of the law inscribed on their hearts. Their conscience is called as witness, and their own thoughts argue the case on either side, against them or even for them, 16 on the day when God judges the secrets of human hearts through Christ Jesus. So my gospel declares.

This is the only version I've seen that says by the "light of nature." Since this translation is a direct translation from the original transcripts I take this to be the exact phrase originally used.

So I wonder why other translators chose to omit the word light. It feels like to me that there was an agenda of dogma and Doctrine they were trying to promote. And that is the separation of the natural from god.

I think that in Genesis were God said let there be light and it was his first creation it is related to the proverbs where Sophia says that she was the first creation of god. I believe from personal experience that the light is the psyche or mind of god. All of nature is infused with this light and I think it was wrong for the translators to remove that connection.

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MJ. Smith

Welcome to the Logos/Verbum forums where we discuss the use of Logos software and its resources. Are you asking for information of the translation notes/commentary notes surrounding this verse? Or am I missing your Logos-related question?

Burton Haviland Jr

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271319#Comment_1271319

I was just curious if anyone had thoughts on that particular Passage

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271320#Comment_1271320

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Burton Haviland Jr

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271321#Comment_1271321

Oh. My bad.

I tried to find a discussion forum.

-Burt

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271322#Comment_1271322

No problem ... and if you use any Logos product, come back anytime with questions.

Rosie Perera

This is the only version I've seen that says by the "light of nature." Since this translation is a direct translation from the original transcripts I take this to be the exact phrase originally used.

Hi Burton,

The Logos forums are not the place to discuss theology or perceived errors in translation and such. Those things can get very controversial and the forums are meant only to help people learn how to use the Logos software or solve problems with it.

However I would say that you might want to learn how to use Logos to examine the underlying Greek or Hebrew words that the English translations come from. Then you can know for sure instead of "I take this to be the exact phrase originally used."

One useful feature for doing this is Reverse Interlinear. Unfortunately, the NEB in Logos does not have Reverse Interlinear implemented, but you could pick some other translation that does (such as the Lexham English Bible, the ESV, or the NRSV). To turn on the Reverse Interlinear lines, click the Alpha & Omega icon to drop down the RI menu, and turn on the checkboxes of whichever lines you want to show.

You can choose to show the RI as inline or as a separate pane below. I personally think it's easier to follow if you do it inline, but it's personal preference. If you use the pane, you'd turn on/off the different lines differently (by right-clicking on the label area to the left to bring up the menu of which lines to show):

At a minimum, you'll want the Surface text (the English text from the translation), and Manuscript (the original Hebrew or Greek words that got translated into English) and Lemma (the base form of that Greek or Hebrew word, which you can look up in Lexicons to learn more about its possible meanings). Transliteration lines can help if you don't read the Greek or Hebrew alphabet. Strong's numbers and Louw-Nida numbers can help too, because you can simply hover over them to see definitions. But you'd really need to read some Lexicon entries and/or learn some Greek (or Hebrew if it were an Old Testament passage) to understand this fully.

Walking you through your example in the ESV, which is as close to the NEB as I could find:

Here's where, if you had the NEB with Reverse Interlinear, it would show "by the light of nature" and the Greek word that it came from below that phrase.

The Greek word that the ESV and Lexham translators chose to render as "by nature" and the NRSV renders as "instinctively" is φύσει (transliterated physei). The Lemma form of that is φύσις (physis). You can recognize a root that we get some of our English words from (physics, physical, physician, ...).

If you hover over the Strongs or Louw-Nida numbers, you get get some more info, and if you click on the numbers it will take you to the full article:

Or you could right-click on that word block (any of the lines in it) and it'll bring up a whole menu of other ways you can dig deeper. Learning how to use that right-click menu (aka the "context menu") is a whole Logos course in itself, but you can poke around and experiment, or ask questions here, or start with the Logos training materials on it.

Anyway, I'll leave it as an exercise for you to discover where the word "light" came from in the NEB translation, and whether it is in the Greek text.

One complicating factor I discovered is that the NEB comes from a different Greek edition than the UBS Greek New Testament used by the ESV and NRSV and the SBL Greek New Testament used by Lexham. From what I read on Wikipedia (not always 100% trustworthy), the NEB comes from the R.V.G. Tasker Greek New Testament. The Tasker edition is not available in Logos so I can't examine it to see if it has that same word physei in Rom 2:14 that is in the UBS and SBL editions. But that's where I'd look next if I were trying to get to the bottom of this difference.

You might wonder why there are all these different Greek New Testaments that different English translations came from? Ah, that's another whole rabbit trail to explore. You could do some reading in your Logos library on Bible translations, Greek Manuscripts, etc. It's really way beyond the scope of the forums...but it could help you solve this dilemma for yourself.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271325#Comment_1271325

BTW, since Logos is missing the R.G.V. Tasker Greek New Testament, I have put in a request for it. You can go vote for it here:

https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-book-requests/posts/the-greek-new-testament-edited-by-r-v-g-tasker

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1271327#Comment_1271327

Rosie's guide is excellent, and the way that I would study the passage. Depending on your resources, an All search for bible:"Romans 2:14" AND "light of nature" might also be interesting.

One hit I got was from the very useful UBS Translator's handbooks:

[quote]

"Romans 2:14

The Gentiles do not have the Law may need to be changed to the past tense, “the Gentiles have not possessed the Law,” “the Gentiles did not receive the Law through Moses,” or “the Law which came through Moses was not given to the Gentiles.”

Of their own free will has been translated in a variety of ways: “instinctively” (Moffatt, Goodspeed), “by the light of nature” (Phillips, NEB) and “led by reason” (JB, with a note indicating “guided by conscience, not by revealed law”). In most translations this is rendered “by nature” (see RSV). The TEV understands Paul to be speaking of the free and inner response of a man to the conscience given him by God. This is a “natural” response, not because it is something that one does by instinct or by nature, but because it is a response of the divinely created conscience within man. An expression for their own free will is difficult to render in a number of languages. In some instances it is simply equivalent to “whenever they themselves decide,” “whenever their own heart tells them to,” or “whenever their innermost thoughts say they should.”

The Law commands may need to be recast as “what is commanded in the Law” or “what the words written in the Law say that people should do.”

They are a law to themselves must not be rendered in such a way as to imply that people can do whatever they want to do. A more appropriate equivalent is “they themselves show what should or should not be done” or “they have demonstrated that they know what should or should not be done.”

In the last clause of verse 14 it may be again necessary to specify “the Law which comes from Moses”—for example, “even though they have not possessed the Law which came through Moses” or “even though the Law which came through Moses was not given to them.”

Barclay Moon Newman and Eugene Albert Nida, A Handbook on Paul’s Letter to the Romans, UBS Handbook Series (New York: United Bible Societies, 1973), 40."

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

This is the only version I've seen that says by the "light of nature."

Welcome [:)]

Bible Search of All Bibles in my Logos library for phrase "light of nature" in Romans 2:14 found two translations:

"light of nature" IN milestone:bible:ro2.14

Books Search of All Books in my Logos library for phrase "light of nature" in Romans 2:14 found 15 commentaries

"light of nature" IN milestone:bible:ro2.14

UBS Handbooks Series: Old Testament, New Testament, and Deuterocanonical Books (66 vols.) includes Romans 2:14 translation commentary:

Keep Smiling [:)]