FL promoting Contemplative Prayer / Spirituality ?

this months free e-book deals page has a lot of authors that i would put in the Contemplative Prayer / Spirituality camp.

https://www.logos.com/free-ebook

most if not all of the authors are on this list (a list of authors to avoid):
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/2nd-edition-booklet-directory-of-authors-three-not-recommended-lists/

i'm not saying that list is perfect, but it helps shed some light on questionable viewpoints of certain authors.
on that website you can search for authors and sometimes they have articles on them. for example here's one on Richard Foster.

in particular, some of these authors are introducing meditation (the kind where you "empty your mind"), as a spiritual practice during prayer. see also this video: a former Zen Meditator talks about the difference between True Biblical Meditation and Eastern Meditation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpdtnLHDViQ

my 2 cents: i don't think faithlife should be promoting some of these books.

for reference, here's the list for october 2023 from https://www.logos.com/free-ebook :

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Comments

DAL

FYI, don’t make the mistake of assuming/speculating like many have done in the past — FL is in the business of selling religious books for research purposes, not to be promoting whatever it is that you or others think FL is promoting. When you keep that in the forefront of your mind you’ll stop worrying and speculating about those things or assuming too much.

Many have worried that FL promotes calvinism just because books are sold that teach that theology. Others have speculated that N.T. Wright gets promoted too much. Others worry about the different denominational base packages FL offers and on and on the speculation continues that FL is promoting this or that when they’re just in the business of selling religious books that help in the study of the Bible.

Trust me, we already have one too many that want to tell FL what to offer and what not to offer or speculate about what FL is promoting or not promoting, so don’t be one of them! 👍😁👌

Anyway, just a friendly advice to save yourself unnecessary frustrations 😏

DAL

MJ. Smith

The guidelines for the forums say:

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.

Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.

So for the purposes of the forum, I don't care that you don't believe in being quiet and listening to God. This is not the place to discuss it. Logos/Verbum tries to serve the broad spectrum of Christians, and in doing so carries books so that everyone can be equally offended by the "heresy". What offends me is not what offends you, but trust me, I am offended. But the forums is not the place for me to disclose what offends me.

But thank you for pointing me to the eBook sale which I often ignore; I made some purchases.

NB.Mick

thank you for pointing me to the eBook sale which I often ignore; I made some purchases.

I would have liked to get one or two from the list (e.g. Dallas Willard and 'Search the Scriptures') but the publisher once again doesn't like my foreign address.

DMB

i'm not saying that list is perfect,

I'd say. I scanned down ... gee, Logos is ready for fire and brimstone (but not hell). Some authors are even in Logos' preacher development collections. Oh my. I just wish Logos would stop offering what I don't think others should read.

Gary Osborne

But thank you for pointing me to the eBook sale which I often ignore; I made some purchases.

That's as good an example of a passive-aggressive comeback as I've witnessed in a while. [;)]

Lew Worthington

I almost always ignore the ebook things, too, but there's some stuff I'm contemplating [;)] purchasing.

MJ. Smith

But thank you for pointing me to the eBook sale which I often ignore; I made some purchases.

That's as good an example of a passive-aggressive comeback as I've witnessed in a while.

At least I remembered not everyone wants a history lesson ... or a comparative religion lesson[:#]

Kiyah

But thank you for pointing me to the eBook sale which I often ignore; I made some purchases.

That's as good an example of a passive-aggressive comeback as I've witnessed in a while.

This one was actually my favorite line:

I don't care that you don't believe in being quiet and listening to God.

MJ. Smith

But thank you for pointing me to the eBook sale which I often ignore; I made some purchases.

That's as good an example of a passive-aggressive comeback as I've witnessed in a while.

This one was actually my favorite line:

I don't care that you don't believe in being quiet and listening to God.

Okay, let me give a bit of background on my reaction to this post.

I do, as a matter of course, seriously consider buying books that others object to. (a) I want to be informed as to what their issue is not what I guess it might be and (b) I figure knowing they increased the sales of the book is a deterrent to continue trying to shape Logos to their beliefs.
I was bombarded in Fatihlife messages by a forum participant with regards to a recommendation that had "mysticism" in its title. If the word "mysticism" meant what he thought it meant, his concerns would have been legitimate. Unfortunately, his definition was a highly idiocentric definition; nothing would convince him that the dictionary definition was what I meant and the author meant. I react poorly to anti-mysticism, anti-meditation posts as I tend to assume the definitions are similarly idiocentric.
I agree with the original poster that there is a difference between Christian meditation and Buddhist meditation -- one sits quietly in front of a God that reaches out to us; the other sits quietly in front of a radical recognition of impermanence. That doesn't mean we don't share methods and experiences in the "sitting quietly" part. However, I do object the misrepresentation of church history that implies that Centering Prayer is a borrowed tradition, or that the use of "spiritual formation" rather than "faith formation" is anything more than a vocabulary difference. Some traditions may have scuttled Centering Prayer or made a distinction between faith and spiritual formation ... but don't apply that to a whole block of authors who don't. Read the authors and figure out what they mean by the terms.
My definition of "being quiet and listening to God" is accurate for all Abrahamic religions - what happens beyond that is at the initiative of God not man. If it were the latter, I would be slipping into magic in which the actions of man can force a specific action by God.
So, yes, while what I said was accurate and succinct, I probably should have applied more diplomacy... he's new enough to the forums to not know that isn't my forte. At the very least, I should have let him define what he meant by his terms. I'm glad you enjoyed it.[;)]

Sean

FYI, don’t make the mistake of assuming/speculating like many have done in the past — FL is in the business of selling religious books for research purposes, not to be promoting whatever it is that you or others think FL is promoting. When you keep that in the forefront of your mind you’ll stop worrying and speculating about those things or assuming too much.

This. Threads like this that try to restrict what Logos does and does not put out irk me to no end. While I no longer teach at a seminary (I'm now a mega church pastor instead--I've been one thing or another that will offend everyone!) I still research and write academically. We HAVE to have primary resources* in order to study and speak about them competently. We can't just say, "Oh, such-and-such discernment blog says they're bad; avoid!" For example: I had to read Mary Daly for one class I taught. I wouldn't necessarily recommend you (generic) read her, but I had to in order to represent her fairly.

Another example: a huge lack in Logos is Bultmann; there's practically nothing of his, but try to find a work of NT scholarship from the 20th century that doesn't reference him--you'll be looking a long time. Any serious student of the NT needs access to Bultmann, but I can imagine the outrage that would come if Faithlife offered a collection of his works. I likely wouldn't buy it now for lack of need, but I would have loved to have something like that when I was doing my PG studies.

We need more stuff in Logos, not less.

*Whether it is financially viable for FL to offer all the resources niche academics need is a separate (and fair) question.

Lew Worthington

There are a couple Bultmann volumes available. But iirc, there was a discussion about getting his commentary on John and like the decades long search for Barth's Romans commentary, I thought I remembered some kind of copyright issue. But I may be remembering incorrectly.

Gregory Lawhorn

So for the purposes of the forum, I don't care that you don't believe in being quiet and listening to God. This is not the place to discuss it.

And yet that's exactly what your first sentence does, doesn't it?

Jan Krohn

i'm not saying that list is perfect

That list declares people like Albert Mohler, WL Craig, JP Moreland, to be false teachers. I have the suspicion that they add every author to it who isn't in their own camp. I can't take it seriously. No-one should.

Sean

i'm not saying that list is perfect

That list declares people like Albert Mohler, WL Craig, JP Moreland, to be false teachers. I have the suspicion that they add every author to it who isn't in their own camp. I can't take it seriously. No-one should.

Yeah unfortunately I went back and clicked it and that list and website are rubbish. No one should trust the "discernment" of people who make a blacklist of authors so long that it would take them several lifetimes to read them all, which is what it would require to give anything remotely resembling a fair "judgment."

(I went back to check if I'm on it. Nope! But probably only because I'm not famous enough.)

Gary Osborne

i'm not saying that list is perfect

That list declares people like Albert Mohler, WL Craig, JP Moreland, to be false teachers. I have the suspicion that they add every author to it who isn't in their own camp. I can't take it seriously. No-one should.

I traveled in "discernment" circles in the past and I know full well what animates the majority of them. They are way too quick to paint with broad brushes and dismiss most anyone that has written or said anything resembling what they believe is serious false doctrine. I've often seen these folk turn on one another (discernment vs discernment). It's a sad state of affairs.

Having said all that, I do wish Logos would carry all of Dave Hunt's books. He had a true servant's heart and was a gentle man even when dealing with what he believed was serious doctrinal errors. He ran a legit discernment ministry for decades. He passed away a number of years ago, and I'm betting he'd be grieved to see how far afield many of the current "discernment ministries" have drifted.

Brian Kent

I think it's worth noting that all of these books (well, at least the first half a dozen, I didn't look at them all) are from the same publisher. This is common for free books/heavily discounted books. That has changed a bit over the years as there is more often a mix of publishers in a single month, but it still helps explain the similarities. But if you look at the last 6-7 years of this offerings history, it actually was almost exclusively aligned with the monthly publisher for many years.

I would also point out that the thought process behind how this promotion was built when it went from just a single free book to multiple offerings was that if someone wants the free book, they probably would like this other similar book for $2, and this one for $5... so on and so forth. And it works! I've bought loads of books of this page back to when the free book +1 started. I say this to point out that the intent here is sales, not theology.

And if I can speak from my time at Logos, the idea that someone is being sneaky with their picks for the free book of the month is farfetched. If I can speculate as a former employee why this specific trend was chosen; someone noticed that these types of books have not historically been pushed in pairs and thought it would be a good idea.

David Wanat

most if not all of the authors are on this list (a list of authors to avoid):
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/2nd-edition-booklet-directory-of-authors-three-not-recommended-lists/

So, a list of authors that this website doesn’t like. That’s hardly authoritative. 🙄

GregW

I recall a leader in our church network telling us we shouldn’t read Brian McLaren’s books. Within a day of hearing this, I had bought three of them and read them all within a week. All my friends did likewise. I found things that were refreshing, some that were thought-provoking, and things I disagreed with.

Our leader’s banning of an author actually sold several hundred copies of his books. I hope this guy’s list has the same impact. Setting yourself up in judgment over some of the world’s best spiritual writers, theologians and biblical scholars might - just might - be a symptom of pride, and we all know how serious that is.

Rosie Perera

most if not all of the authors are on this list (a list of authors to avoid):
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/2nd-edition-booklet-directory-of-authors-three-not-recommended-lists/

So, a list of authors that this website doesn’t like. That’s hardly authoritative. 🙄

I hadn't bothered to click on this link when I saw this thread and wasn't going to chime in, just thinking 🤦‍♀️ to myself.

But then David's comment got me to click. And ugh. Anyone that thinks "contemplative spirituality" and "Spiritual Formation" are the same thing doesn't understand either. Logos's blog "Grow" has a good article on what spiritual formation is: https://www.logos.com/grow/what-is-spiritual-formation-and-why-does-it-matter/

And what a wide net this organization casts in the authors they would ban. Many of them on their list are among my favorite authors, and some I know or knew personally (Eugene Peterson was a professor of mine and a dear friend).

Also some of these people have strong conservative evangelical bona fides: Carl F. Henry, Timothy Keller, Albert Mohler, John Piper. Anyone who would ban these authors as being too "contemplative" or "universalist" or "liberal" or "new age" or whatever is carving for themselves a very small window of possible reading indeed. Might as well just read the Bible and not use a Logos Library at all then.

Sure, I wouldn't recommend all the people on that list. Mark Driscoll is one I wish people wouldn't read, for example. But I'm not going to request that Logos not carry his books.

Also "ecumenism" is what we have here on the forums; people of different denominations getting along together (for the most part) because we share the common goal of studying the Bible and using Logos to do it. So thinking that "ecumenism" is bad and to be avoided is misguided. That results in separate sects cutting themselves off from all others who think differently from them, because they think they are the only ones who have it all right.

MJ. Smith

That results in separate sects cutting themselves off from all others who think differently from them, because they think they are the only ones who have it all right.

I always assumed it was because they were afraid they couldn't support their own point of view. A friend of mine in Arizona ran into a church where the pastor made them leave their Bibles on their seat rather than taking it home because the pastor thought they'd go astray if they read the Bible on their own. I've always held that you were indoctrinated rather than believed if you didn't know the other possible positions -- which, if you look at Medieval education, is actually a very conservative position.

MJ. Smith

Sorry, I know I said I wasn't going to teach ... but I just ran into a great paper Gregory Palamas and Hesychasm (csbsju.edu) that is in the context of the Hesychast Controversy (Eastern Orthodox church history) which in some ways parallels the contemplative prayer controversy.

And please, everyone (including myself) be careful of the language you use to describe what you don't agree with. The OP should be comfortable in the forums, not feel attacked.

GaoLu

this months free e-book deals page has a lot of authors that i would put in the Contemplative Prayer / Spirituality camp.

https://www.logos.com/free-ebook

most if not all of the authors are on this list (a list of authors to avoid):
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/2nd-edition-booklet-directory-of-authors-three-not-recommended-lists/

Whether or not someone chooses to reactively purchase contested books to prove some ethereal point is of little interest to me on these forums and is probably outside Phil Gons famous guidelines.

What does interest me on these forums is learning about Logos Resources from the perspectives of others. Thanks David, for sharing your views.