Working out your salvation
I am going back to my study on salvation vocabulary. I do not think salvation is worked out by people. I did what MJ said in this forum. https://community.logos.com/forums/p/219474/1277739.aspx#1277739
- determine the passages in the Gospel and in Paul that deal with salvation
- use word frequencies in these passages collectively to identify the key terms that relate to salvation
- take each of these terms and identify the frequency of use in the salvation passages of Paul and separately of the Gospel
- if the frequency is similar, this is not a word of interest; if the frequency is dissimilar, you have identified a word that indicates a difference in vocabulary.
Is working out your salvation considered santification? How can I usee Logos to find depth and breadth on this topic?
Comments
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You might want to read The Word “Hesed” in the Hebrew Bible (Bloomsbury Academic Collections) | Logos Bible Software as an example of how to go from the data you have to the meaning of the term.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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When it comes to salvation, I find no better book than a good bible. All one has to do is read what Jesus said is needed to do to get into heaven. For this I would suggest the book, The New King James Version Bible, Or the New American Standard Bible, both of which Logos does sell.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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When it comes to salvation, I find no better book than a good bible
I doubt anyone in the forums would disagree with you except, perhaps, on preferred translations. However, given that Christian likes to create papers that meet academic citation standards, can you fill in some details as to how to achieve his objective?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Is working out your salvation considered santification? How can I usee Logos to find depth and breadth on this topic?
One way--and certainly not the only or a complete way--to research this is to right-click on Phil. 2:12, the text you allude to, and search on the Systematic Theology Guide. This will lead you to passages that cite it in your theological resources and give you some insight as to how different theologians have worked through the text.
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--to research this is to right-click on Phil. 2:12, the text you allude to,
Then, the other verse from Paul, where working out salvation can go badly wrong.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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This is great and that book is great MJ. I have read it before and just did some more reading in it. I just did not think we "humans" can work out our own salvation. I thought that was something that was given by God alone. This whole spur of research came from a sermon I watched on Philippians 2. Then I read the MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Philippians 2. The suggestion of the Theology Guide was magnificent. Is this a correct line of argumentation? No one, in my opinion, will ever be able to enter Heaven by their works. The Bible teaches that we are saved because of what Jesus did for us on the cross, not because of anything we can accomplish (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, obedience and works are proof that we are saved. Not perfect obedience, because Christians continue to sin (1 John 1:8). But if we are rescued, our lives will change (1 John 2:3). If you truly repent and accept Jesus as your Savior and Lord, He will enter your heart, save, forgive, and give you eternal life. We are saved because of what Jesus did for us on the cross, not because of our deeds. Thanks everyone for querying me. Blessings
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Then, the other verse from Paul, where working out salvation can go badly wrong.
What verse are you refering to here, DMB?
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Is this a correct line of argumentation? No one, in my opinion, will ever be able to enter Heaven by their works. The Bible teaches that we are saved because of what Jesus did for us on the cross, not because of anything we can accomplish (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, obedience and works are proof that we are saved. Not perfect obedience, because Christians continue to sin (1 John 1:8). But if we are rescued, our lives will change (1 John 2:3). If you truly repent and accept Jesus as your Savior and Lord, He will enter your heart, save, forgive, and give you eternal life. We are saved because of what Jesus did for us on the cross, not because of our deeds.
Sorry but checking logic for other's theological thought is outside the topic of Logos software and resources no matter how broadly I interpret it. Not to mention that exactly how we are saved seems to be a favorite topic of theologians to quibble over
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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2 cor 7:10
But you'll need to untangle the greek to see it.
The problem with your 'works' theory, is you don't know what 'works' are. You do know what Luther thought they were. Or conceivably what James thought they were. And Jesus was pretty clear about one's future temperature levels, absent 'works'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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When it comes to salvation, I find no better book than a good bible
I doubt anyone in the forums would disagree with you except, perhaps, on preferred translations. However, given that Christian likes to create papers that meet academic citation standards, can you fill in some details as to how to achieve his objective?
Sorry, didn't see your request till today.... 12/9/23.
Welll.... consider I now think of your request as being a "set up" for me to get in trouble... If I was writing a paper this is a brief outline I would follow on salvation.......
First, show that Jesus is the only one that can give salvation - Hebrews 5:8-9.
1. I might follow this up about how Jesus is the Son of God and as such authorized to offer salvation to mankind.
Second, How did Jesus teach salvation?
1. Jesus taught one must follow His (Jesus) word - John 8:31.
2. Jesus taught one must believe in Jesus - John 11:25.
3. Jesus taught one must confess Jesus before men - Matthew 10:32-33.
4. Jesus taught one must repent of sin - Luke 13:3.
5. Jesus taught one must be baptized - Mark 16:16.
Of course each point can be expanded on with other verses such what Peter and Paul and other taught also. and I would show how what they taught did not and does not contradict what Jesus taught. I might use Matthew 28:18-20 to show that the apostles were to teach what Jesus had taught them and then show the apostles actually did that.
As I said, all one has to do is study the words of Jesus to understand salvation. But as always, it takes man to mess it all up and come up with so many ways to be saved.... when really what Jesus taught was simple, to the point and enough.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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As I said, all one has to do is study the words of Jesus to understand salvation. But as always, it takes man to mess it all up and come up with so many ways to be saved.... when really what Jesus taught was simple, to the point and enough.
Sorry for not being clear. What I was trying to ask politely was that you point him to Logos books that he could cite - Christian's question was "my study on salvation vocabulary" i.e. a question of vocabulary not of theology.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Sorry for not being clear. What I was trying to ask politely was that you point him to Logos books that he could cite - Christian's question was "my study on salvation vocabulary" i.e. a question of vocabulary not of theology.
And I answered that in my first response.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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All one has to do is read what Jesus said is needed to do to get into heaven.
What verse(s) do you have in mind in this regard?
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Interesting that I came across this Logos article just a couple of hours ago.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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When it comes to salvation, I find no better book than a good bible. All one has to do is read what Jesus said is needed to do to get into heaven. For this I would suggest the book, The New King James Version Bible, Or the New American Standard Bible, both of which Logos does sell.
One very interesting book I have been spending a lot of time with in recent months is N.T. Wrights "Surprised by Hope".
One of his major points in this book is that the "salvation" taught in the New Testament was never a platonic-like view of a separation from bodily existence into a heavenly disembodied existence which is reflected in your words "get into heaven".
I find his insights to be brilliant in taking us back to the authorial intent of the New Testament authors.
The Logos description page contains a few quotations from the book:
[quote]
“But the language of heaven in the New Testament doesn’t work that way. ‘God’s kingdom’ in the preaching of Jesus refers, not to post-mortem destiny, not to our escape from this world into another one, but about God’s sovereign rule coming ‘on earth as it is in heaven’.” (Page 25)
“‘Salvation’, then, is not ‘going to heaven’, but ‘being raised to life in God’s new heaven and new earth’.” (Page 210)0 -
All one has to do is read what Jesus said is needed to do to get into heaven.
What verse(s) do you have in mind in this regard?
Still curious about this...interested in hearing your reply. In an above comment, you quoted a few verses related to salvation, but I'd like to hear specifically (in terms of verses) about how this relates to "getting into heaven".
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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I agree with you David Paul. This is an important point.
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All one has to do is read what Jesus said is needed to do to get into heaven.
What verse(s) do you have in mind in this regard?
Still curious about this...interested in hearing your reply. In an above comment, you quoted a few verses related to salvation, but I'd like to hear specifically (in terms of verses) about how this relates to "getting into heaven".
Sorry, missed your post. Not trying to avoid it. If you will scroll back up just a bit... I listed the verses I would suggest. But to be specific... Jesus was all about the salvation of man - John 1:29. So what Jesus taught was about what His kingdom on this earth was to be like and how man would get into that kingdom. (All I know is what I read in my bible).
As to "working out your salvation" ----- I would put forth the thought... there are 2 parts to salvation.... 1. God's part and 2. man's part.
God's part is shown in grace... which is shown through Jesus.
Man's part is shown in man's accepting God's part. --- God will never override man's free will.
Both parts have to be done.
Philippians 2:12 - "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"
I could go on.... but I am treading on thin ice now by getting into "ideological theology". I was just trying to put forth some thinking that might go into writing the paper Alexander ask about.
My apologies if I misunderstood.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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God will never override man's free will
I wonder if Jonah would agree with that? [;)]
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God will never override man's free will
I wonder if Jonah would agree with that?
LOL.... Remember.... God let Jonah do whatever Jonah wanted to do.... it just seems that Jonah didn't like the consequences of some of his decisions.... [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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When it comes to salvation, I find no better book than a good bible. All one has to do is read what Jesus said is needed to do to get into heaven. For this I would suggest the book, The New King James Version Bible, Or the New American Standard Bible, both of which Logos does sell.
One very interesting book I have been spending a lot of time with in recent months is N.T. Wrights "Surprised by Hope".
One of his major points in this book is that the "salvation" taught in the New Testament was never a platonic-like view of a separation from bodily existence into a heavenly disembodied existence which is reflected in your words "get into heaven".
I find his insights to be brilliant in taking us back to the authorial intent of the New Testament authors.
The Logos description page contains a few quotations from the book:
[quote]
“But the language of heaven in the New Testament doesn’t work that way. ‘God’s kingdom’ in the preaching of Jesus refers, not to post-mortem destiny, not to our escape from this world into another one, but about God’s sovereign rule coming ‘on earth as it is in heaven’.” (Page 25)
“‘Salvation’, then, is not ‘going to heaven’, but ‘being raised to life in God’s new heaven and new earth’.” (Page 210)NT Wright has been invited to some church of Christ’s universities to speak on his view of New Heavens and New Earth. He’s got some good points, so does Randy Alcorn. The thing with Randy is he lets his imagination run way too wild, but I guess we’ll know when we die.
DAL
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Post deleted by xnman. I fogotted that I had answered earlier. Sorry.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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