Clippings and Notes
I've never paid attention to the clippings feature, even though I have been using the software for 20+ years. I took a look at a tutorial.
What is the advantages of clippings over notes? It seems to me that they could be combined into one feature. What am I missing here?
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
Comments
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Jerry Bush said:
What is the advantages of clippings over notes? It seems to me that they could be combined into one feature.
Please don't wish for Clippings to be combined with Notes
Clippings is for studying topics whilst Notes is for for studying verses. Each clipping has its own notes section but I usually have only one set of notes. per topic. If studying a bible book, a clippings document will cover the chapters that will be presented at each meeting for a small group.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Please don't wish for Clippings to be combined with Notes
For me they should be combined under the hood, at least.
Dave Hooton said:Clippings is for studying topics whilst Notes is for for studying verses.
Interesting as this is not how I use them although I can see why they might be used in that way. I use clippings for text elements I might want to actually use as quotations and for materials of a sequential nature where I want a string of excerpts kept in a fixed order. Otherwise I use notes.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Dave Hooton said:
Please don't wish for Clippings to be combined with Notes
For me they should be combined under the hood, at least.
I understand that given your use of Clippings. But there is no hood for my use in Small Group studies as I use their notes and handouts (Print/Export). I do not use the Notes tool.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Please don't wish for Clippings to be combined with Notes
I'm with Dave on this! I pray Clippings and Notes Never Ever be combined! Please Logos don't consider combining them!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Dave and Xnman - from the perspective of IS data modeling, there is no question that they should be combined - it would greatly simplify the code maintenance and the resilience of the code. That is the "under the hood" engineering position. Whether this combination should or should not be visible to the user is a separate question. Only if you can provide a reference to a data scientist that provides a convincing data storage and retrieval argument OR if you can provide a convincing argument that Logos should abandon all SQL (relational database) storage and retrieval technology at this time will I change my mind.
I make an issue out of this only because one of the weaknesses and sources of inconsistencies in Logos is the lack of a cohesive modeling of data. Instead, unrelated data is shoe-horned into existing structures or data is twisted to almost fit (think the dual datatypes for some Bible/pseudepigraph e.g. Enoch). Supporting the use of industry best practices except in unique circumstances will help everyone. Especially when the best practices have been industry standards since the mid 80's ... as early as late 70's in cutting edge shops.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Martha,
My preference concerns the user interface. Your "data modelling" perspective should more logically insist that Clippings and Sermons be combined. But that sort of thinking can lead to a situation where all apps/functions with 'notes' would be combined!
Data modelling (in theory) ensures that data flows and processes (apps/functions) are consistent with an overall data architecture for the enterprise/project e.g. should bible commentary milestones be distinct from bible book milestones. System design ensures that processes satisfy user needs (remember the customer), the data modelling should simplify the coding, and peer reviews should ensure the maintenance and "resilience" of the code. It should follow that duplication of code is more important than the amount of code needed for additional processes.
MJ. Smith said:if you can provide a convincing argument that Logos should abandon all SQL (relational database) storage and retrieval technology at this time will I change my mind.
Alas, your logic for my position is baseless and Logos' "data modelling" does not support your assertion. Sermons, Clippings and Notes are vastly different at the data level. Notes in Clippings are binary data whilst user Notes in the tool are part of a binary CompressedContent that includes much of the discrete data that is available to the user! Sermon 'notes' are split into a number of text/HTML Data Blocks with different attributes. It shows that the data was modeled around the function
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
System design ensures that processes satisfy user needs (remember the customer), the data modelling should simplify the coding, and peer reviews should ensure the maintenance and "resilience" of the code.
On this we agree but I'm having trouble understanding what you mean re: data modelling - a mathematically based discipline as I think of it. The main reason that notes, highlights, and clippings are subtypes of a single entity is the key data - the difference in the subtypes' storage affects what? Or are you not making a distinction between the data model and the data implementation? I am arguing for the standard 3rd normal form or the Boyce-Codd normal form for SQL implementation - nothing more, nothing less. I know there are more recent studies that argue for other standards in specific instances, but I know little about them. I am willing to educate myself if the Logos implementation justifies considering the newer options. In my experience data modeling is independent of function except during the testing of the completeness of model i.e. that it contains paths to support all intended functions.
I should note that in the mid 1990's I used some data modeling software from Australia that took a very different approach than the ER diagrams popular in the US. Unfortunately, I couldn't convince others on the team that it was an option worth pursuing. It may be that we aren't using the vocabulary to mean the same thing.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
The main reason that notes, highlights, and clippings are subtypes of a single entity is the key data - the difference in the subtypes' storage affects what? Or are you not making a distinction between the data model and the data implementation?
Again, it is your assertion that they are subtypes. I can only state that "notes" are not the same entity between the 3 features. But functionally, Clipping notes have more in common with Notes notes. So it makes more sense to use Notes' text editor in Clippings than combine the features. Sermons has a a more sophisticated document editor.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Again, it is your assertion that they are subtypes.
We are obviously talking past each other as the modeling as subtypes is the result of the mathematical processes of data modeling not a matter of opinion or assertion. But as it is not a matter where Logos looks to users for advice, so I'll not pursue it further.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Jerry Bush said:
I've never paid attention to the clippings feature, even though I have been using the software for 20+ years. I took a look at a tutorial.
What is the advantages of clippings over notes? It seems to me that they could be combined into one feature. What am I missing here?
I use clippings to gather other people's thoughts. I use my notes for my thoughts. There is no advantage of one over the other. They both work seamlessly together when studying a Bible passage or topic.
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I'd the same feature...to be able to add clippings to notes. It gives liberty and flexibility to users to configure the feature(s) around their way of studying Scripture.
There's an overwhelming consensus that the notes feature is clunky and could use some updating.
Why wouldn't that be a valid request to happen in an upcoming release as a step in the right direction?#scratchingmyhead
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I'd the same feature...to be able to add clippings to notes. It gives liberty and flexibility to users to configure the feature(s) around their way of studying Scripture.
There's an overwhelming consensus that the notes feature is clunky and could use some updating.
Why wouldn't that be a valid request to happen in an upcoming release as a step in the right direction?#scratchingmyhead
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Dave Hooton said:Jerry Bush said:
What is the advantages of clippings over notes? It seems to me that they could be combined into one feature.
Please don't wish for Clippings to be combined with Notes
I beg PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE don't combine them!!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Matt Hamrick said:Jerry Bush said:
I've never paid attention to the clippings feature, even though I have been using the software for 20+ years. I took a look at a tutorial.
What is the advantages of clippings over notes? It seems to me that they could be combined into one feature. What am I missing here?
I use clippings to gather other people's thoughts. I use my notes for my thoughts. There is no advantage of one over the other. They both work seamlessly together when studying a Bible passage or topic.
This essentially summarizes the uniqueness of Clippings and Notes. The reason I don't use Clippings (after dabbling with it for some time) is that it it only accessible as far as I know only under Documents. I wish I can include the Clippings as one item in the Notebook. Keeping a Clipping document for a Topic and a Note for the same Topic is cumbersome.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Ps. Jasper Williams, III said:
I'd the same feature...to be able to add clippings to notes. It gives liberty and flexibility to users to configure the feature(s) around their way of studying Scripture.
There's an overwhelming consensus that the notes feature is clunky and could use some updating.
Why wouldn't that be a valid request to happen in an upcoming release as a step in the right direction?The right direction is definitely to overhaul the Notes interface, but clippings can already be included by copying and pasting text! If you want to add a Clippings document (with its own notes) you can include an L4 hyperlink to it.
To shoehorn Clippings into Notes ignores the fundamental that Clippings are not Notes, not even a subtype of Note, as they do not leave any identifying marks in the source text, nor have isolated Anchors.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
To shoehorn Clippings into Notes ignores the fundamental that Clippings are not Notes
From the perspective of IT data modeling clippings, notes, and highlights are all subtypes of a single entity.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Dave Hooton said:
To shoehorn Clippings into Notes ignores the fundamental that Clippings are not Notes
From the perspective of IT data modeling clippings, notes, and highlights are all subtypes of a single entity.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/219849/1279949.aspx#1279949
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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