Huge Libraries

Hello fellow pilgrims,

Even though Logos on my current system is a bit sluggish, I recognize Logos is the program of the future in bible study. For my current investment in the Leader’s Library edition of Logos, I have 342 titles. To me that is reasonably ample, but I certainly wouldn’t mind having a library in the two or three thousands, or even in the upper nine thousands that some have shared about in other threads, which brings me to my question. When I look at the list of resources that one can buy, my mind spins at the numbers available. As a newbie, I am not familiar with the vast majority of the authors available, and unfortunately, the descriptions are not in enough detail to educate me about these writers. How does one make educated choices in selecting further resources? I certainly don’t want to purchase anything from someone who holds a completely different theology. Rather than cut-and-dried answers about Logos resources, I am looking for people to share about how they approach new sources in general.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Scot Jefferies

How does one make educated choices in selecting further resources?

Welcome to the Forums David.

I started with the Scholar's Edition quite a few years ago. Price and original language studies were important in that determination. I'm on a small budget most of the time so Community Pricing has been a great benefit in obtaining classic titles and collections at extremely low cost.

I look at the Logos description and sometimes do a bit more Google searching on the author to know more about their background and perspective.

I certainly don’t want to purchase anything from someone who holds a completely different theology.

I've found that the offerings from Logos are generally mainstream in theology although varying in perspective. It isn't a mistake to obtain and read authors who have a different take on a subject or Bible text. This has brought some very good balance for me and helped me to better grasp the "whole counsel of God".

Rosie Perera

I have gone about building up my paper library slowly, over many years, becoming familiar with names of authors along the way as pastors, other authors I've read, and professors I've studied under have referred to them. I'm able to jump ahead more quickly in my Logos library because I'm already familiar with so many authors' names from the years of reading and collecting knowledge and books. So I suggest you not be in a rush to get up to many thousands of titles in your library.

I actually find it beneficial, once I've become quite well-versed in my own theology, to read books by those with other positions. It expands my horizons, helps me to see whether what I hold near and dear about some other viewpoint is really a fair representation of what they believe, and helps me know how to address the real errors I encounter in other perspectives if and when necessary (which is rarely; I rarely can claim to know more about some subject than a fellow believer does, and in a context where pointing out their errors is really going to be helpful to us both and to the world out there looking in on us to see how Christians behave amongst themselves).

One thing you could do is look for places where some of the pastors and authors you already know and trust have written up lists of recommendations of books and authors. Perhaps an article in a church newsletter or magazine, or a blog post, or a bibliography for some paper they've written. Or in the rare case you might be lucky if someone you respect has written a whole book of recommended literature, such as Eugene Peterson's Take and Read: Spiritual Reading: An Annotated List. I happen to know Eugene personally (he was a professor of mine) and trust his judgement immensely, though he might not be your cup of tea.

The other thing to do is look at book reviews. Some of the user reviews (both positive and negative) on Amazon.com are outstanding and can help you decide whether you'd want to own a book or not, whether you'd learn anything from its contents, whether you'd agree with its slant or not, etc. For reviews of commentaries, check out http://www.bestcommentaries.com. For scholarly reviews of other books, you might consider purchasing in Logos format The Review of Biblical Literature, a periodical which contains thousands of book reviews. The Logos resource contains 9 volumes of this journal, covering the years from 1998 - 2006.

Another helpful group of resources are book-length bibliographies and books specifically aimed at helping people build up a good theological library. New Testament Commentary Survey by D.A. Carson, Old Testament Commentary Survey by Tremper Longman (unfortunately not in Logos format yet), An Introductory Bibliography for the Study of Scripture by Joseph A. Fitzmeyer (from a Catholic perspective), Multipurpose Tools for Bible Study by F.W. Danker (apparently still only available on CD-ROM), An Annotated Guide to Biblical Resources for Ministry by David Bauer (also not available in Logos format), and Biblical Counsel: Resources for Renewal by Steven Kettler (the Amazon book description is much more informative than the Logos one).

Also, scour online bibliographies and resource guides put out by seminary libraries, churches, denominations, para-church organizations, or other institutions that you trust. For example, the Bibliographies and Reference Tools page of the SBTS Research Guide wiki (put out by Southern Baptist Theological Seminary), Religion and Theology Resources and Biblical Studies Links (Regent College Library; evangelical / transdenominational), Internet Guide to Religion (Wabash Center for Teaching and Learning in Theology and Religion; ecumenical / interfaith). Some of these are merely links to other online resources but some of the latter contain bibliographies of recommended books.

Finally (actually you might want to make this your first stop): Logos has put together a number of really good Product Guides which are excellent places to look for book suggestions in any of several categories.

Oh, one more thing, Google the phrase "build* theological library" (that'll pick up all variations of "build[ing] {a/your} theological library") and see what other suggestions people out there in the blogosphere have made, assuming you trust them as much as you trust me... [;)]

Whenever you do decide to buy more resources in Logos, it is far more cost-effective to upgrade to one of the higher libraries, such as Scholar's or Gold or even Platinum, than to buy the individual books, even if there would be a lot of books in those higher base packages that you'd never use. Saving are truly substantial. For the same price as the few books you might want to order, you can generally get five times that many by upgrading to the next package which includes them all. Some you might not care to ever look at, but you'll find a few surprising gems in there, and lots of useful reference material.

Using all the methods I've mentioned above, you will no doubt encounter books that are not available in Logos format yet wish you wish you could get. Then is the time to suggest them to Logos by emailing suggest (at) logos (dot) come.

UPDATED: Several edits above at 6:11 AM (GMT-8).

spitzerpl

I have often simply Googled their names. This usually gives some tidbit of information, true or not :-) I usually check out the Amazon reviews as well. There are some resources in my Logos library that gives biographical information, such as 131 Christians everyone Should know and Who's Who in Christian History. I've also done global searches of my entire library for their name and since I have the Theological Journals that can bear good results.

I would love to see Logos include user reviews on their website as well. If you are ever looking for a commentary, check out bestcommentaries.com, that's a great website.

Allen Browne

Hi David.

Good question. First thing is to become familiar with what you already have. You are probably already using a couple of bibles, a couple of commentaries, and one or two Bible dictionaries. When you want to study a book of the Bible, take a look at your Bible Introductions/Surveys, and see which ones give you a good overview of the book, so you know what to make of it. Discover the maps/photos (right-click places and things), and the parallel passages/harmonies.

As you do, you will, in time, discover things you need that you haven't got yet. For me (starting with Scholars pack), I didn't have commentaries to the depth I wanted, so I added a few (Bible Speaks Today, Tyndale, and then Word Bible Commentary.) I've also bought particular books because I wanted them (e.g. N.T. Wright's Christian Origins & Question of God series.) Then I wanted a better Bible Dictionary, so bought the ISBE.

Over the last 3 years, I've added some books on church history, theology, OT and NT studies, preaching, apparatus, hermeneutics, apologetics, journals. It's a bit scary really! :-) But I do enjoy my purpose-built library.

Watch the pre-publication specials and Community Pricing, and other specials (from the blog or Facebook.) Buy only what you need, but these are are good way to pick up additional resources gradually.

To find out what you want, read reviews, and get to know authors. While you don't want authors whose presuppositions are radically opposed, it can be useful to consider views other than what you already hold. I'm unlikely to buy an author who rejects the divinity of Jesus, but I did enjoy being informed by Ben Witherington's summary of current trends and thinking in The Jesus Quest.

The biggest mistake I've made has been buying something that's currently cheap but isn't what I need. Sometimes I've bought a resource only to discover that it's not as good as something else I already have. In general, I'd encourage you to stretch for quality resources you need rather than buy lots of things just because they are bargains.

To summarize, my approach is pretty simple: a) What do I need that I don't already have? b) Is it a good price at present? c) How often will I use it?

Hope that's of some use for you.

Steve Maling

Greetings, David,

To all the other excellent advice I add a suggestion to check out www.ntgateway.com, a site hosted by Logos.

Best wishes,

Steve

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164612#Comment_164612

Thanks for your comments Steve. I noticed that the site you referred to has full length dissertations available.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164614#Comment_164614

Thanks for your comments Steve. I noticed that the site you referred to [www.ntgateway.com] has full length dissertations available.

Oh, very nice! I wish that all the open access dissertations around the web could be available and searchable in Logos too (though Logos probably couldn't get permission to charge money for making them searchable that way [:(]). In the meantime, there are several searchable archives of digital theses online. Following the links from www.ntgateway.com will lead you to some of them. Here are a few I found: Theses Canada, Australasian Digital Theses Program, University of Notre Dame Electronic Theses & Dissertations, University of Edinburgh Divinity PhD Thesis Collection, University of Pretoria Electronic Theses and Dissertations, etc. Some of those have some open access theses and others available only to members of the institution. I wish there were one universal search engine to search through all these thesis only for fully available ones. There's sort of no point in doing a full search in theses you'd have no access to anyway. There's the Theological Research Exchange Network (TREN), but it doesn't include any of the above mentioned universities nor many others that surely would have online theses available and have some people writing them on theological topics. And besides, you have to pay for many of the TREN thesis, though there are some free e-docs.

Randy O'Brien

I have been helped by the Denver Journal from Denver Seminary. They keep up-to-date annotated OT and NT bibliographies posted at http://www.denverseminary.edu/resources/the-denver-journal// I have tried to get the recommended resources in the most important areas. This has been a great tool to evaluate potential purchases.

Randy

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164745#Comment_164745

I have been helped by the Denver Journal from Denver Seminary. They keep up-to-date annotated OT and NT bibliographies posted at http://www.denverseminary.edu/resources/the-denver-journal// I have tried to get the recommended resources in the most important areas. This has been a great tool to evaluate potential purchases.

Randy

What and excellent site, Randy! Thanks so much for sharing it. It will most certainly help me spend my dollars more wisely in the future. Peace to you! *smile* And Joy in the Lord!

HJ. van der Wal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164626#Comment_164626

there are several searchable archives of digital theses online.

And here's another one: http://www.narcis.info/?Language=en

Google the phrase "build* theological
library"

The Reformed Union (an orthodox/puritan organization within the Protestant Church in the Netherlands) has on its website a list of recommended resources for building a theological library: http://www.meetingpoint.org/gb/index.php?page=boekenbrochures#lit

(the list is in Dutch, but contains also many titles in English). Although I'm a member of the Reformed Union, I want to mention this list as an example that you always have to be critical: this list mentions just about every Bible software available, except the best Bible software in the world. [:(][:'(]

EDIT: I can't get the link http://www.meetingpoint.org/gb/index.php?page=boekenbrochures

to work. If you copy it and paste it in your browser, it should work properly.

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164808#Comment_164808

I purchased the Portfolio package when Logos offered it, mostly in order to get full access to all the tools. I'd thought I might be nearing retirement and having the opportunity to study things in depth that I've always sped by. However, a promotion ruined that [;)]

I've augmented my collection with some of the pricier commentaries, but have noticed that as my library grew I tended to use less and less of it more and more...for example, I've taken a liking to the NICNT commentary's style and tend to use it as a primary source when I use commentaries. Having watched some of the videos I'm cognizant that I could better use collections to filter the library searches/etc, but that's more effort than I have time for, sadly.

I leapt at the Zondervan bundle since I have a lot of their print material...the idea was to get rid of the print duplicates, but the hoarder in me just won't let go.

The earlier responses were great, and gave me things to consider...I'd point out that sometimes the Forum posts have vectored me to resources and once or twice from resources (usually when they were in a non-English language and I'd not figured that out at first).

I will usually bid on all community pricing material, and will bid on pre-pubs when (1) my wife is asleep [6] and (2) the topic is a reference that would be helpful when chasing rabbits in an area that catches my fancy or helps with greater context for the period.

All this said, I'm finding it harder and harder to find resources that I "need." There are some publishers who are not represented (well) like Lifeway, David C Cook, etc that I really wish would publish in a Logos format. I've undertaken a kind of Logos publishing evangelism ministry to track down editors of things I wish I could get electronically and ask them to check out Logos. It is amazing how resistant many are to selling their wares in a different way.

Mike S.

I had the problem of starting to read articles in dictionaries (e.g. ABD) that I really liked, but all of a sudden something comes out of left field and it becomes very clear they were not believers but had a lot to offer in historical or cultural background. The same became even more evident as I did a deep study in Revelation... I wanted to understand where the author stood before reading some rant on why their view is the only valid view for an hour. That's when I started my own (personal) "Annotated Bibliography".

I created a note and added links to resources with their titles, identified the author(s) and added links to external sites that sometimes helped (e.g. Bios from their university's web site, wikipedia for dead fellows is helpful, theopedia for some, etc.) and then I add my own notes on what they've written. I suddenly discovered that I really enjoyed and have been edified by authors who, given their theological and denominational backgrounds, I never would have purposefully chosen. I also avoided paying for packages that just weren't right for me because of the author's voice or style who technically fit quite well with my personal theology (some are quite arrogant, obstinate, and utterly snotty while clearly taking a very debatable position on a minor subject).

To be fair, I started this using a different bible software and have transferred the work over to Logos... it's taken me years to develop it over time. I've also tried to work on something together with others, but little to no fruit has come of repeated efforts to this effect.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164966#Comment_164966

That's when I started my own (personal) "Annotated Bibliography".

That's really a great idea -- the only way to go on stuff like this, since each one of us is unique in our experiences, knowledge, beliefs, and viewpoints. In a similar vein, I usually find that other people's anthologies of poetry or whatever never quite "do it" for me. I have to pick my own favorite poems and make my own anthology as I go, which I've been doing slowly. I'm doing that for favorite hymns and praise songs, too. A personal annotated bibliography would be most useful! It sounds like a lifetime endeavor. Kind of like the old tradition of keeping commonplace books, which I'd love to implement in my own life as I meander through all kinds of great books. I sort of do it in bits and snatches, with a file of favorite quotes, a growing Zotero bibliography of a few narrow interdisciplinary topics I've studied, my Notes files in Logos, etc.

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/164949#Comment_164949

I've augmented my collection with some of the pricier commentaries, but have noticed that as my library grew I tended to use less and less of it more and more...for example, I've taken a liking to the NICNT commentary's style and tend to use it as a primary source when I use commentaries. Having watched some of the videos I'm cognizant that I could better use collections to filter the library searches/etc, but that's more effort than I have time for, sadly.

I know this is a really old post, but for anyone who is new to Logos or who might be struggling with organizing your tools or trying to get more out of the books you already have. I have about 2000 items in my library at the moment, 800 of which are either background (datasets) or not really useable "on the front end" or are general/historical works in Greek or Latin that were free. So removing those I have about 1200 which there is simply no time to read or interact with like typical books. Not to mention I have about 200-500 more books and journal articles to somehow deal with for my dissertation.

When I was using TW5, I found the same issue that Ward above was having. Most of the tools for that program were free and the more I gathered together the less I used them. Once I switched to Logos and got the package I currently have, I made the decision I needed to learn how to use it before spending any more money. Between the free videos online and the MPSeminars courses (I'm on the subscription), I've found tagging to be the very best solution to organization (rather than collections and especially more so than trying to keep everything on my screen).

But I really wanted to address the time it takes to set up an effective structure. There were about 6 videos from MPSeminars that deal with organizing books by tags. So it took about 30 minutes to watch them all. Then it took about 2 hours (while watching television) to go through my library and tag all like books together. Tagging 1800 books might seem like alot, but (thankfully) you can batch tag however you want and as many as you want, which makes it go very quickly. The biggest challenge for me was going through and picking all the english translations of classic books that were spread out through their Greek and Latin equivalents. But, once that's done it really opened up a whole new world of resource referral.

I have subject tags (philosophy, systematic theology, etc) but then have a few broad tags like !Theology, !Knowledge (I use the ! to put these tags at the top of the list in the search dropdown). These two tags incorporate subgroups of the other regular tag groups and !Knowledge incorporates all of my resources in every tag group except for the non-tagged items (including all the classsic english texts and historical texts that I will never read if I had a million years).

Now I primarily focus on keyword searching and proximity searching with keywords. The search results sorted by rank are quite interesting, but sorting by Resource provides every result in that given text for the given criteria. Combine this with a customized guide that incorporates elements of the exegetical guide with the passage guide, including every one of my tag categories, as I'm studying through a particular text in the Bible I can pull from each category any reference those titles contain. If I'm in Genesis 1:1, the Systematic Theology tag shows quite a few, focused results but the Philosophy tag often will show nothing. But in the few instances where there are references they do pop up. The only way to do anything similar to this without Logos and the organization scheme would be to actually read through 1800 books and take copious notes on each one.

Morris Proctor made the comment in his video that if you simply buy a book in Logos and that's all you do, you'll most likely never see it again. But if you put a system in place that organizes and automatically retrieves information from all your titles then you maximize what you already have. I think this is crucial given that with every passing generation the amount of knowledge available grows exponentially. It is already too much for one person to simply read.

So if you happen to be fortunate enough to have a large library (>10,000 titles) but don't feel like you're using it, take a little bit of time (it takes just a few hours, maybe a day if you have a lot of books) to set up a tagging system that will really work for you. I really think it's going to reduce my research time by half or more in the future.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155426#Comment_1155426

I've found tagging to be the very best solution to organization

2016 Thread => Organize Your Books Tagging rules includes a Tagging System example with 2018 update => tips on tagging plus includes an idea from Rosie Perera about Rating so personally use No Stars to find new Library resources for Tagging, Title Customization, ...

Thread => Creating a New Series of Commentaries includes Title customization ideas (can be helpful when have many commentaries)

Personally use a mixture of MyTags and Collection rules. MyTags are very useful for resource attributes not visible in Library: e.g. Interlinear

Due to collection cache refresh time, have migrated a number of dynamic rule collections to MyTag (so Library Catalog update takes less time)

Keep Smiling [:)]

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155438#Comment_1155438

And this is an 11 year old thread that got resurrected! Wow back when Mr. Milford was alive. We’ve done so many things since 2010, but have y’all ever wondered what do those who are gone are doing right now? Are they just chilling waiting for judgement day or do they have some sort of responsibility? No one is in heaven yet, but I’m sure something is being done in paradise! How does time go by there if there’s any time at all? Hmm 🤔 very intriguing!

DAL

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155456#Comment_1155456

have y’all ever wondered what do those who are gone are doing right now?

They have access to Logos Cloud.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155484#Comment_1155484

As to obtaining resources... This may seem old hat... but I like resources that bring out biblical truth. I don't mind a resource that challenges my thinking into an area that I have not studied...

But I do think a good grasp of God's word is needed to help determine what resources you might want. I.E. "The Bible sheds a lot of light on commentaries".

I am finding (maybe I am wrong) that Logos tends to use a "shotgun" approach to making resources available. They try to have something for everyone so to speak. And that makes me cautious about what to buy. Some things... well... I just don't believe that way.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155585#Comment_1155585

Well, seeing that this is an old thread and so we are unlikely to upset the OP by straying into other area's...

I am finding (maybe I am wrong) that Logos tends to use a "shotgun" approach to making resources available.

I will say, though, that despite the care and caution one has to exercise in selecting resources, it is worth it overall for the additional features Logos has over TW5

It does depend on your mindset as you appoach the concept of Logos.

Is it a pile of useful books that I know and love?

Is it a library of books, that I hold in case I need to refer to one (even if just to disagree with it?

If the former then one will be very careful and only purchase resources that will be well used.

If the latter then one will scour for big bundles of books so that the depth of the library is increased at the risk of never using some of the resources.

My take on it is that 'Logos is a reference library nor a statement of faith'.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155598#Comment_1155598

My take on it is that 'Logos is a reference library nor a statement of faith'.

Good point. Yesterday, an LXX commentary author translated in Jeremiah, 'copper', instead of the usual 'bronze'. I already knew hebrew strangely didn't distinguish ... context. But Logos stepped up to the plate, as to why. But the 'why' came from early 1900s books, hops into Pliny, and side-steps into Akkadian.

Years ago, Bob (Faithlife) referenced the value of a 'curated library'. I think someone at FL planning ahead has been quite valuable ... it's tremendously hard to make sure authors agree with me. Better, they answer my questions.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155602#Comment_1155602

[Y]

Josh Hunt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155598#Comment_1155598

I'd give some thought on how to save money on Logos books. I did this video a couple of years back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGd6OogfVvY

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156273#Comment_1156273

I'd give some thought on how to save money on Logos books. I did this video a couple of years back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGd6OogfVvY

Ah, yes. Josh. I remember this video! I watched it about a year ago when I was hand-wringing over switching from TW5 to Logos (made a short wrong turn with Accordance, but wised up pretty quickly). I will put your tactic #1 to the test (sales > bundles = savings). I will check out the ebooks but I'm not certain I would find those books useful. I'm more interested in research/academic titles. I don't have much interest in devotional or spiritual books, and can get most of those free through my online academic library access anyway.

Commentaries are the biggest issue for me at this point. What I've seen so far is only partials go on sale or when full sets (OT/NT) go on sale, they still price me way out of my comfort zone. Right now the NIC OT/NT is on sale for $1000. Yes, that's 40% off, but it's still $1000. Right now my wishlist has:

Yale Anchor Commentary - $1500 on sale?
ICC - $1800 on sale?
WBC - $1200 on sale?
OTL/NTL - $1400 on sale?
Eerdmans - $1100 on sale?
NICOTNT - $1000 on sale?
EEC - $750 on sale?

These are all priced WAY out of my reach. My hope is I will one day be able to snatch one of them if they ever fall down into the $500 price range. But I'm not holding my breath. ;-)

For those I can maybe afford (but still hurts to think about):

UBS Handbooks - $540 on sale?
NAC - $425
Tyndale $300 (but reviews say it's not academic, which is what I need).

For those that I can definitely afford but....

Cambridge for Colleges - $180 - I had this in TW5. It's pretty good, but there are some issues with it. Not much of an improvement from what I currently have now.

I would REALLY like to get my hands on the UBS Handbooks, but $540 for a series that I have not really laid my eyes on and haven't been able to look at in-depth makes me uncomfortable. Morris Proctor recommends this set, but not sure how credible that is. I managed to get my hands on a few different volumes of the Tyndale and the NIC, and the ICC. They were okay. I'm not sure I understand the price point for the ICC since it's pretty ancient. I found a few volumes of the WBC to look at and, while it appears okay, not sure how it compares to the UBS Handbooks.

I saw one comment that the UBS Handbooks were much like the NET Bible Notes only a great deal more in-depth. Then again, that could really mean anything.

I'm hoping the UBS Handbooks (full set, not this half set stuff) will make the matchup in March and will be discounted significantly (I'm hoping for around $300 for the entire set). To be honest, If I could add that one set to my library, that would really be all I needed. When added to my current Logos library, features, and personal book library, I have pretty much everything else.

But I will try your technique and will let you know how it turns out. I'm really looking for an academic full set (OT/NT/Deut) commentary that handles in depth the exegetical NT Greek, the OT Hebrew AND the LXX Greek, provides detailed analysis on EVERY verse in the Bible (stop skipping controversial sections), and provides a balanced approach between the TR/CT issues (not siding one way or the other). I don't really think a commentary like this exists.

Or, how about all the commentaries listed above for $1000? Hey, I can dream, right?

[:P]

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156273#Comment_1156273

Way to go, Josh, on maybe changing my mind.....

So, out of all the commentary sets, the UBS Handbooks stand out. I check their page and they are $539. The first package it's in is the Academic Professional Package at $680. Not necessarily less than the single item, but I looked a little closer. This package comes with the UBS Handbooks, the ICC, and the Hermeneia Commentary.

Technically, if dividing that price between the two (UBS and ICC) it comes out to = $340 for each + all the other stuff included. There are some extra English Bibles, a few additional Greek NTs. Some dictionaries; I'm sure the TDOT/TDNT would come in handy. But, really, it's a commentary set that I want with a lot of other stuff that I don't necessarily want. It's a cheaper price per item, but an overall more expensive total.

If it were five titles that I really wanted for the same price, that might motivate me a little more. I'll have to think it over.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156310#Comment_1156310

I'll have to think it over.

1. Those sales numbers on commentaries don't look right. WBC for sure. Maybe others have better memory than me. I'm talking lowest sale price you can get; not current.

2. You sure about UBS Handbooks?? I don't remember your earlier posts (your job), but they're more about other language translational struggles. Even Net Bible Notes has more info (as an example).

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156315#Comment_1156315

2. You sure about UBS Handbooks??

Logos Wiki => Logos Resource Reviews includes:

UBS New Testament Handbook Series Key concepts to translate plus cross cultural comments and textual criticism
UBS Old Testament Handbook Series Key concepts to translate plus cross cultural comments and textual criticism

FWIW: UBS Handbook Series is my highest prioritized Commentary series followed by custom Top Two => https://www.bestcommentaries.com/topcommentaries/ Thread => Creating a New Series of Commentaries

Keep Smiling [:)]

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156315#Comment_1156315

1. Those sales numbers on commentaries don't look right. WBC for sure. Maybe others have better memory than me. I'm talking lowest sale price you can get; not current.

Meaning, you think they are asking too much or too little. Those are the current sale prices with my Academic Discount. From a quick rundown, looks like its about 40% off on average. My sale price shows how much the percentage they are off in the Wishlist, but on the product page it just shows the discounted price as if it were the standard price. Not sure if these are dynamically priced based on my discount or if the wishlist discount are showing up simply as a marketing ploy to entice purchase. The prices I listed above are what they are quoting me in my wishlist at the moment.

2. You sure about UBS Handbooks?? I don't remember your earlier posts (your job), but they're more about other language translational struggles. Even Net Bible Notes has more info (as an example).

No, I am not at all sure about the UBS Handbooks. That's the problem. I've seen a few pictures of a few pages. I've seen a short video that shows a few pages. But when I check a commentary out I like to check multiple locations, trouble passages, just to see how the authors handle themselves. I don't mind necessarily if they disagree as long as they present a balanced and unbiased explanation of the issues. I especially want them to dig into the underlining text, the Greek (TR/CT), Hebrew (LXX).

One issue I have with the Cambridge for Schools commentary is there are too many blank verses or one line entries. I don't care if it's a list of names. There is a reason its there. The more mundane the verses appear the more important they tend to be. But, I can't judge the UBS Handbooks adequately at this point, which is why I'm very hesitant on spending $500 on them.

As far as language, I'm not a translator. But I do use commentaries and research tools to uncover and "solve" or at least "inform" on issues that typically either arise from transnational or interpretative choices. I don't want a commentary to talk at length about application. That part is my job. I want the commentary to lay out the possible options or at least the majority of possible positions taken.

I looked again at the Word Biblical Commentary - Job and it looks like they took the time to preserve the Hebrew script but transliterated the LXX Greek. Is that correct? If so, how odd. It is certainly oriented toward the Hebrew Bible.

But, there is no way for me to compare the WBC with the UBS. When you say "other language struggles" are you referring to issue when translating into modern languages like French or Swedish or does it deal with the underlining Greek and Hebrew texts (and has a balanced handling of the LXX/Hebrew)? If the Net Bible Notes truly has more info than the UBS then it is not worth $100 let along $500. Yet, then the next responder here says the UBS is is top commentary in his lists. Without seeing it for myself I cannot make an informed decision. The risk is too high that I spend the money and the UBS sits on the digital shelf (like Everett did in the TW5 - thankfully it was a free download).

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156336#Comment_1156336

I looked again at the Word Biblical Commentary - Job and it looks like they took the time to preserve the Hebrew script but transliterated the LXX Greek. Is that correct? If so, how odd. It is certainly oriented toward the Hebrew Bible.

I don't see the transliteration on a quick look - are there specific places where you saw this?

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156339#Comment_1156339

Yeah, I looked at another online preview and I think the first one had a faulty font rendering or my computer didn't have the font or something. On Amazon it has the Greek just like the one you posted.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156336#Comment_1156336

If the Net Bible Notes truly has more info than the UBS then it is not worth $100 let along $500. Yet, then the next responder here says the UBS is is top commentary in his lists. Without seeing it for myself I cannot make an informed decision. The risk is too high that I spend the money and the UBS sits on the digital shelf

Thankful for Faithlife having a 30 day return policy.

Thankful for Logos Blog on 29 Aug 2011 => https://blog.logos.com/logos-4-quickly-access-the-ubs-handbooks/ (and noticed current UBS set has dropped in price from $800 while adding some volumes)

Faithlife Feedback => NET Bible, 2nd ed. has 22 votes with "In Progress" status (have a NET Bible 2nd Edition bound in leather so know volume of notes is substantially less than UBS Handbooks).

For grins, compared NET Bible Notes First Edition in Logos with Online Second Edition Notes for Psalms 2:1-7

UBS offers more to ponder: (while not requiring original language reading ability)

Missing from NET Bible Notes & UBS is Acts 4:25-26 about David being the Second Psalm author.

Keep Smiling [:)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156341#Comment_1156341

The title of this thread is driving me nuts. The research library at which I have library rights as a retiree (and graduate) is huge:

[quote]The University of Washington Libraries have a collection of more than 9 million books, journals, millions of microforms, thousands of maps, rare books, film, audio and video recordings.

But it doesn't even rank among the largest libraries in the world. Okay, it's the 16th largest research library in the US. My local public library is the 13th largest in the US. My Verbum library is not "huge" although it is larger than many -- no one's is.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156336#Comment_1156336

Meaning, you think they are asking too much or too little. Those are the current sale prices with my Academic Discount.

Oh, ok. Again, against my memory, WBC as an example, is discounted to around $800 ... the others similarly lower ... meaning you'd save with patience. Of course, if you're in school, you need it when you need it.

No, I am not at all sure about the UBS Handbooks. That's the problem. I've seen a few pictures of a few pages. I've seen a short video that shows a few pages.

My comment about UBS is relative to what you (with a limited budget) want for you learning-investment. I have UBS ... bought it from Olivetree for my Windows Mobile (that old!). It's a good quick-ref. Recently, I re-bought it for Logos, just for quick lookups. But your want-it list (WBC, Herm, etc) and UBS aren't in the same arena. My reference to Net Notes was an example ... even those limited notes have more similarity to the commentaries you listed, than UBC.

One issue I have with the Cambridge for Schools commentary

No, no, no. Old. But excellent. Cambridge is after you have your basics. Cambridge is good for strange subjects more modern authors have forgotten about.

When you say "other language struggles" are you referring to issue when translating into modern languages like French or Swedish or does it deal with the underlining Greek and Hebrew texts (and has a balanced handling of the LXX/Hebrew)?

UBS was intended for language translation ... rather than demand every translator be a hebrew/greek expert. As you read the comments, you'll see a generally high-level reference to hebrew or greek, without much discussion of the details. But it has a good awareness of other language problems. Let's say you get into a discussion with your friends on a specific verse reading. UBS isn't going to help too much ... not its goal.

I guess it works out to whether you need something now, or wait for sales (or affordable packages).

Josh Hunt

Oh, one more thing... as to the sluggishness, Logos was always sluggish for me until I got a computer with a ssd

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156341#Comment_1156341

Thankful for Faithlife having a 30 day return policy.

So, they would let me take a 30 day test drive and if I don't like it they would refund my money, even if I did this for multiple commentary sets until I found one that worked? I guess a jaded over the years of 30-day return policy claims that it didn't even register Logos had one. I've always found there is a catch with this policies. Lifetime limits. Processing times, etc.

Thankful for Logos Blog on 29 Aug 2011 => https://blog.logos.com/logos-4-quickly-access-the-ubs-handbooks/ (and noticed current UBS set has dropped in price from $800 while adding some volumes)

I'm leaning toward Proctor's opinion on this, the little bit of the Handbook I've seen. Thanks, by the way, for the screenshot of the UBS Psalms entry. They seem to provide a thorough review of the verse issues. It does appear as if they do not address the underlining languages (at least not in a direct way) but paired with the exegetical guide and the word-for-word feature, I think you and Proctor might be right about this set.

Faithlife Feedback => NET Bible, 2nd ed. has 22 votes with "In Progress" status (have a NET Bible 2nd Edition bound in leather so know volume of notes is substantially less than UBS Handbooks).

For grins, compared NET Bible Notes First Edition in Logos with Online Second Edition Notes for Psalms 2:1-7

I never understood why they reduced the notes in edition 2. This is why I opted to stay in edition 1. Plus, in TW5, edition 1 was two modules, the bible text and then the notes. In edition 2 they combined them and did not provide the notes in a separate module. This meant you could only use the notes with the NET bible (which I really don't do). I use the NET notes as a quick running commentary with the NKJV.

Thanks again for the screenshots. They were very helpful.

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156375#Comment_1156375

That probably explains my sluggishness. My drive is HDD.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156455#Comment_1156455

That probably explains my sluggishness. My drive is HDD.

Yep, that is likely to be a significant factor. Unfortunately Faithlife do not do 30-day trials on SSDs [:(]

However, there are many folks here who will attest to the effectiveness of an upgrade.

Apple has a 14 day returns window you could try one of their M1 things. You might even be able to use your existing monitor.

Steven Veach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1156302#Comment_1156302

I'm hoping the UBS Handbooks (full set, not this half set stuff) will make the matchup in March and will be discounted significantly (I'm hoping for around $300 for the entire set).

So they must have been reading this thread (or just my mind). UBS Handbooks (full set) just dropped to exactly $300 today. It is downloading now. I will take it for a 29 day spin and if it's not what I hope I will test out the 30 day return policy.

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1158101#Comment_1158101

Yes, there is a catch with the 30 day return policy. You can only use it once per resource. If you return a resource and then purchase it again, it's non-returnable. I've used it several times and never had a problem.