Best Starter Package, Slant: Mainline Protestant/Liberal/Historical-Critical/Progressive-ish

Hi guys!

I'm a 51-year-old parish minister in the Swiss state Reformed church. We belong to the world Reformed family, but by way of Zwingli rather than Calvin. We generally align with academic German protestant theology and progressive theology and politics - US folks might compare us to the UCC. (Though we ALSO enjoy a high degree of personal theologically autonomy.)

I've been thinking about buying a Logos package for over 20 years now, and I've decided to FINALLY make a purchase - I figure, I still have 15-20 years of preaching left, so it's not too late!

The question is: Which starter package makes the most sense?

In terms of basic criteria, I have around 2.5k USD to spend, and I use English and German interchangeably (I could combine English and German packages). But what I need most HERE is some advice about ending up with commentaries suited to my theological priorities.

As far as I can tell, the Logos Packages tend to skew toward a US Evangelical readership, which is something I already have covered. (I got my first Masters at US Evangelical schools.) What I'm missing are approaches that grew out of "mainline" or "historical critical" theology.

I.e., if I'm preparing a sermon on Isaiah 65, I'm looking for commentaries more likely to read the text as written for a post-exilic readership. If I'm writing a sermon on any text in the pentateuch, I'm looking for commentaries that don't have basic theological objections to the documentary hypothesis. Etc.

Are there any starter packages that skew more in this direction? (I don't think a US-based "Reformed" package is going to be a good fit - it'll skew more conservative than I need - and probably more Dutch, too!)

Lutheran or Methodist, maybe? Or "academic" (whatever that happens to mean ... )?

I'm not going to throw a tantrum if my collection includes stuff edited by D.A. Carson & Co. - but that's not what I want to emphasise.

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Comments

Mike Binks

New year's greetings Mike and welcome to the forums.

Here you will find users like yourself perhaps with more experience of using the software.

My own purchasing strategy is to find resources I want. To look at the page on which they are for sale and then which packages they are included in.

I inspect the contents of that package to find if there are other items that I will be likely to need in the short term.

I then decide whether to buy just the resource on its own or a package that contains it based on my calculations about the relative value.

I almost never* buy a package without first knowing it contains a specific resource that I need.

*actually I do upgrade packages when the cost of doing so is trivial.

Mike Gray

Thanks for the welcome, and happy new year!

Usually, I'd agree with you completely - I've always bought books as a I need them. (And partly because I've been planning to buy a logos package for about two decades now, I've hardly bought any commentaries!!) But as far as I can tell you get the contents of the basic logos software packages for orders of magnitude less than you'd pay if you log in and buy the individual books or series separately.

Presumably, with any of these starter packages, you're always going to end up winnowing out the stuff you really want - I'm just trying to figure out which package makes the most sense.

NOTE: I may be misunderstanding how this works. FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME!!

Graham Criddle

Hi Mike

This search string - https://www.logos.com/compare/libraries?productIds=228276,228283,228290,228297,228304,228311,228317,228324,228331,228265 - compares 10 starter packages side by side.

I suggest opening the Biblical Commentaries section so you can see what commentaries are available in Starter Packages and see if any match what you are looking for.

Then you can scroll through the different packages (the page only shows three at a time but you can scroll horizontally using the arrow keys) to see which packages contain ones you might be interested in.

Does this help at all?

Graham

Sean

I agree with what others have said: identify some commentaries you really want and then look at all the available packages to see what offers the best combination regardless of denomination label. Also: look at the legacy libraries--some of the previous years have offered exceptional combinations that did not carry over into the later library versions.

Context: I'm denominationally Pentecostal but am an ecumenical systematic theologian whose tastes lie primarily among continental theologians with the initial "B." My all-time favorite Logos library package was Logos 6 Reformed Gold. For Logos 10, I bought an Orthodox package; for L9, I got an academic one. At this point, I have libraries from most of the denominational families, though I have not yet bought a Pentecostal-Charismatic one, simply because what is offered in them does not suit my interests.

I can't make a recommendation for a specific needs, but my guess is that you're most likely to find what you among the Lutheran and Anglican packages. As far as I can tell, however, all Logos packages tend to have an overall conservative and evangelical flavor even if they do contain some critical works. And you are not, for example, going to find many works by Bultmann on logos.com in either English or German.

Joseph Sollenberger

Given your preferences, check this page for the Hermeneia and Continental commentaries. Collections containing them are listed on the page: https://www.logos.com/product/197368/hermeneia-and-continental-commentaries

Look for commentaries of interest in the store, and note on the detail page for that commentary which collections contain that commentary. You will soon discover some helpful patterns.

Given your interests, I would also check the Anchor Yale Bible Commentary series: https://www.logos.com/product/210711/anchor-yale-bible-commentary-aybc

Viel Glück,

—Joseph

Kiyah

I am progressive and ecumenically minded. I tend to hang out in the Methodist/Anglican/Orthodox/Verbum/Academic packages. I'll get some of the Lutheran packages if they have specific things I want in them. Sometimes the Lutheran packages will have more classically Reformed resources in them than the Reformed packages. You've rightly observed that the Reform packages are basically US.-based "new Calvinism" in their focus.

This time around (Logos 10 upgrades) I've gotten mostly Verbum (Standard Bronze, Ordinariate Gold) and Academic (Verbum Professional and Logos Premium). I did get an Anglican Bronze and Methodist Bronze package as well because they were cheap for me and had a few resources I wanted. I got a lot of Verbum packages this time because they had a lot of the Oxford Handbooks. But in the past my best commentaries and other books have come from the Methodist Platinum and Anglican Gold/Platinum packages. I've gotten a Lutheran Bronze or Silver package here and there for specific resources (Pannenberg, Bonhoeffer, some resources on Reformation history, etc.).

The way Logos does things, usually if they have any progressive stuff in the base packages they're at the higher levels (Platinum and up). You just have to use the comparison tool to examine all the packages and pick the ones that have the books and resources you'll find the most useful.

I wish I could afford Collector's edition this time around. There are a lot of books on my wishlist in that package. Speaking of wishlists, that's another good way to pick a package. Click on items in your wishlist and see if they show up in any base packages. If you see the same base package showing up, maybe consider getting that one since it has multiple items on your wishlist. Don't forget to look at the Legacy Libraries, some of the older legacy libraries had better commentary options.

Don't overlook the Messianic packages, they actually have a lot of Jewish Publication Society and other Jewish studies resources in them, including early and rabbinic Judaism. They're not exclusively messianic Jewish, and it's easy enough to sort through the different kinds of Jewish resources by publisher if you don't want the messianic Jewish resources.

Mike Gray

Thanks SO MUCH to all of you people for the helpful input!

One question: Am I understanding correctly that a lot of you people buy multiple packages? I HAVE seen that they subtract the amount you would have spent on resources you already own - but does this really work out in practice?

Also ... yeah: I found it a bit ... surprising ... that the Messianic Jewish packages keep showing up with commentaries I'd be interested in. Not what I was expecting, but if it's good stuff, it's good stuff. (And yeah: an academic Jewish take on biblical texts would be super interesting.)

Right now, I'm tending toward German Diamond. It turns out that they have A LOT of English language resources, and the selection seems pretty well suited to where I am and what I do. (Odd, that. Who'd a thunk it?)

Kiyah

but does this really work out in practice?

Yes, it does work in practice.

Right now, I'm tending toward German Diamond. It turns out that they have A LOT of English language resources, and the selection seems pretty well suited to where I am and what I do. (Odd, that. Who'd a thunk it?)

[Y] I noticed after I posted that you had said you read German and thought, "well he should just get one of the German packages then." Which one are you getting, German Diamond or German Academic Diamond?

Also ... yeah: I found it a bit ... surprising ... that the Messianic Jewish packages keep showing up with commentaries I'd be interested in. Not what I was expecting, but if it's good stuff, it's good stuff. (And yeah: an academic Jewish take on biblical texts would be super interesting.)

Yep. That's how I ended up with several Messianic packages over the years. They very frequently have good scholarly resources that I want in them.

Mike Gray

I noticed after I posted that you had said you read German and thought, "well he should just get one of the German packages then." Which one are you getting, German Diamond or German Academic Diamond?

I'm still trying to figure out whether the pastoral or academic version would work better - the differences seem to be smaller than with the English versions. Either side has a lot to offer.

OTOH, the German language issue isn't cut and dried.

I'm not anti-German at all - I live and work in (Swiss-)German, and I got my last two degrees in Fribourg and Zurich. Still. TODAY'S cutting edge religious studies research is in English, not German. For instance, my pastoral team did a series on Revelation, and my colleagues didn't lack for critical material. Like, the idea that Revelation might (or might not!) be anti-Pauline was not new. But they were kind of flabbergasted when I showed up with Heather Macumber's Recovering the Monstrous in Revelation - which combines a critical reading of Rev with contemporary Monster Theory.

You need English for that kind of stuff. I feel like German theology has kind of been resting on its laurels since the mid 1900's. OTOH, it doesn't look like I'm going to find much of that in an English Logos package either, so ... shrug.

Rosie Perera

Usually, I'd agree with you completely - I've always bought books as a I need them. (And partly because I've been planning to buy a logos package for about two decades now, I've hardly bought any commentaries!!) But as far as I can tell you get the contents of the basic logos software packages for orders of magnitude less than you'd pay if you log in and buy the individual books or series separately.

I think he meant you look for the commentary series you want and not that you buy it directly, but scroll to the bottom of the product description page to see what base packages they are included in. If you can find a base package that includes more than one good commentary set you want, that would be a good one to go for.

One question: Am I understanding correctly that a lot of you people buy multiple packages? I HAVE seen that they subtract the amount you would have spent on resources you already own - but does this really work out in practice?

Yes, and yes.