What do you use to supplement Logos/Verbum?

Logos/Verbum does not do everything every user wants it to do and for some things, they don't do things they way users want to do them. Over time, I have noticed that what I supplement Logos/Verbum with changes over time, sometimes because of the projects I am working on, sometimes because of changes in technology. I am very curious as to where you feel you have to go outside Logos/Verbum to meet your needs.

Some common examples I have seen over the years:

Zotero Zotero | Downloads for reference management
Bible Mapper Bible Mapper - Gallery of Maps for customizable atlas
Vici.org Archaelogical Maps of Antiquity Archaeological Atlas of Antiquity - Vici.org (online service)
ORBIS - ORBIS: The Stanford Geospatial Network Model of the Roman World (online service)
The Brain TheBrain: The Ultimate Digital Memory memory maps
Anki anki (software) - Search (bing.com) flashcards
Raycast Raycast (keyboard extensions)
Biblearc Biblearc
Rationale Rationale - online argument mapping (rationaleonline.com) (online service)
OneNote, EndNote and other note systems ....

Then there are the G-whiz new AI toys:

Google Bard Bard (google.com)
Chat GPT from Open AI ChatGPT (openai.com)
Magesterium AI (Catholic documents) Magisterium AI
Kagi https://labs.kagi.com/ai/sum (summarization)

There are the sites embedded in Logos/Verbum

Wikipedia Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Perseus Perseus Digital Library (tufts.edu)
Google maps (from Atlas) 32°06'45.0"N 34°01'06.3"E - Google Maps
Bing maps (from Atlas) Bing Maps - Directions, trip planning, traffic cameras & more
Holding institution and online manuscripts links (Septuagint Manuscript Explorer, Hebrew Bible Manuscript Explorer, New Testament Manuscript Explorer)

There are the sites that are the background for Logos datasets:

Cultural concepts Human Relations Area Files | Cultural information for education and research (yale.edu)
Bible sense lexicon WordNet (princeton.edu)
Semantic roles/case frames Martha Palmer | Projects | Verb Net (colorado.edu)
Canvas draw.io Documentation (drawio.com)
The NASSCAL Handbook of Christian Apocryphal Literature e-Clavis: Christian Apocrypha – NASSCAL

There are the sites in support of major translation and critical editions:

NETS NETS: New English Translation of the Septuagint (upenn.edu)
Trilinear Targums Peshitta Aramaic/English Interlinear
Andersen-Forbes andersen-forbes.org
USB semanticdictionary.org MARBLE and semantic dictionaries

Data not overtly supported within Logos/Verbum

Chiasms BIBLICAL CHIASM EXCHANGE | "rightly dividing the word of truth" (chiasmusxchange.com)
Classical rhetoric Silva Rhetoricae: The Forest of Rhetoric (byu.edu) (yes, I love this site)
Hebrew name meanings Why you want to study the Bible, and transcend religion (abarim-publications.com)

Not to mention the various sites in support of hymn tunes, chants, religious art, parabiblical texts, training, and denominal resources.

What I would like to do it build a list of the software and sites for other users to consider if what you use would provide the information that they need, and to share each other's discoveries. My list is deliberately not exhaustive in any area.

I would really like to hear how you use Logos/Verbum:

Do you use any other Bible software for things Logos/Verbum doesn't do well?
What other software do your use to augment Logos/Verbum etc. another note system, a reference manager, and flash card application ...
What web sites do you go to most often to supplement Logos? Yes, Google counts ...
What data do you most often wish Logos/Verbum showed you that it doesn't?
How would you like to see the data presented that you can't currently do?

Thanks, in advance.

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Comments

Rosie Perera

The software I use most often to supplement my Logos Bible study is Google. Yep, good old Google. Advanced Search. It often can find what I'm looking for faster and more accurately than Logos.

I have occasionally used ChatGPT to ask a specific question, but I don't trust its answers and will follow up with Google and/or Logos.

And, alas, I sometimes have to turn to Kindle/Amazon to find books I want digital access to that Logos doesn't have in its ecosystem. [:(]

Or if it's a journal article I want access to when Logos doesn't carry that journal (which is most of the ones I'm interested in; their journal offerings tend to skew conservative evangelical), I can often find it through my alumni library access through my undergrad university or Regent College (seminary).

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283588#Comment_1283588

Rosie said, "I have occasionally used ChatGPT to ask a specific question, but I don't trust its answers and will follow up with Google and/or Logos."

I was just talking to another friend about that yesterday. Right now, the only way someone can really use AI is if they already know the correct answer so they can check what AI answers! [:D]

I'm sure that will change with the years, just like Google Translate has become more and more accurate as time passes (I am bilingual English and French and can commend that translation aspect to everyone), but right now, I don't trust AI for information I don't know as far as I can type it...

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283596#Comment_1283596

When i want that niche of quick, capable, simple, easy navigation, it's ESword. After all these years, I wish Logos would compete.

I sincerely believe that one thing would do more to increase Logos users than a hundred other bells and whistles. Once in...away they buy.

And: Google / AI

Sean

I use Google for searches and fuzzy Bible verse lookups. Logos's fuzzy search is nearly there, but nothing is faster than "alt-tab/jab a couple words/enter."

I use Wikipedia for noncontroversial topics and curiosity itches not scratched by some of my standard Logos reference works.

I use PowerPoint for sermon and lesson presentations.

I use Nota Bene's Lingua Workstation for taking notes, writing articles and other academic works, and reference management. The interface is quite clunky and dated, but it's what I used years ago for my post-grad studies, and it does nearly everything I want. It handles other language scripts flawlessly and gives you complete control over how it displays.

I have a few books in my Kindle app but never use them and barely ever remember that I have them.

Geo Philips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283598#Comment_1283598

I used to pay for Scribd's subscription till a few months ago due to the library of Christian works they have in their catalog. Of course, its a hassle to incorporate into a Logos workflow but for a wide variety of works like "5 views on..." etc., I valued having such titles even without the Logos workflow for a guaranteed monthly fee.

Rick Mansfield (Logos)

A citation/reference database I didn't see mentioned above is Bookends, which integrates really nicely with the academic word processor, Mellel. In addition to coming to work for Logos last year, I also enrolled in a new degree program. I really have enjoyed the combination of Logos, Bookends, and Mellel for writing papers.

DMB

Can't say I'm supplementing Logos/Verbum ... for the first time in almost 20 years I'm an ex-Logosian! Accidentally deleted my big-boy Verbum, and took a pass on re-install (for now).

But my 3 supplements are my own Bible software (strangely designed just for me). Then, Kindle (90% of my Bible-related reading), and Accordance/Bibleworks for OL, plus Accordance graphics.

Rick

Although I don't use it, I know a lot of people are using Obsidian for note taking.

HJ. van der Wal

On Bible-related topics I can usually find all of the information I need in Logos/Verbum.

I have Accordance installed on my desktop but I hardly ever use the software. On my smartphone I have only three religious apps: the Verbum app, the Logos Webapp and a Genevan psalter app (in Dutch).

In general I'm using Qwant, Bing with ChatGPT and also Google. Often these search engines will lead me to Wikipedia.

The websites that I visit to supplement Logos/Verbum give access to denominal texts or hymns. Almost every week I visit www.kerkliedwiki.nl which has information on most hymnals in the Netherlands.

I wish that Logos would offer more hymnals or at least a Genevan Psalter. Even though English is a foreign language for me (and my congregation) a lot of hymns and worship songs have been translated into Dutch. The passage guide has a small section on music but usually there is very little data.

David Thomas

What web sites do you go to most often to supplement Logos? Yes, Google counts ...

ATLA & ERIC for Academic Theses through https://www.mbts.edu/current-students/library-databases/

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283608#Comment_1283608

My two big ones are Evernote (I do everything in there) and Bibleworks. Or at least, former Bibleworks user. I can't get it to run on my Mac anymore (m1), but BW crushed Logos hands-down for original language searching. It was extremely easy, detailed, and crazy fast. Logos is so cumbersome, I've effectively been shut out of even asking those kinds of questions/searches anymore.

I've recently started using Anki for language study and review (German, Italian, Greek, Hebrew, Akkadian)

Christian Alexander

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283608#Comment_1283608

I use the following resources.

Google and its suite for researching titles and abbreviations.

ATLA & ERIC for Academic Theological and Biblical Studies

JSTOR for journal articles

STEPBible https://www.stepbible.org/

Reading Plans on Bible Gateway www.biblegateway.com

Michael Ransom

As already mentioned above and in this thread https://community.logos.com/forums/t/220457.aspx, I use Obsidian to supplement the Logos notes tool.

I also use a spreadsheet (Apple Numbers) in an attempt to map out an author's reasoning across verses, paragraphs, pericopes, and chapters. Every verse of Hebrews, for example, went into a spreadsheet with one verse per row. Then I break up each sentence/verse into logical pieces that are distributed across columns and rows in the spreadsheet. The result is a macro-level logic map of scripture. I use the spreadsheet borders and cell shading tools to annotate things of interest in the text. For example, I can draw a line from verse 2 to verse 40 if those two verses have some relationship to one another. I suppose this is a poor man's version of arcing, propositional outlining, and Canvas.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283639#Comment_1283639

.
I also use a spreadsheet (Apple Numbers) in an attempt to map out an author's reasoning across verses, paragraphs, pericopes, and chapters.

Nice, Michael! I try similar in my software.

EastTN

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283588#Comment_1283588

The software I use most often to supplement my Logos Bible study is Google. Yep, good old Google. Advanced Search. It often can find what I'm looking for faster and more accurately than Logos.

100% agree. I flip over from Logos to Google far more often than I do to anything else.

David Paul

Is there a Bible program (or other work-around/app) that allows users to insert notes in the Bible text that have sizable pop-ups such that the note content is viewable? L3 used to do that, but...[a novel's worth of gripes].

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283647#Comment_1283647

I use Finnish "Kirkon Aarteita" app which contains some Finnish Bible versions, and Lutheran and Patristic book translations. Has an unfriendly user interface. Would like to have that material in Logos.

In order to access Bibles in many languages in the world, specific apps are often necessary, all having different user interface and pushing various kinds of annoying offers and graphics. For example "YourVersion" Holy Bible for Farsi (Persian) language, and another app "Dari Bible" (with audio and video) for Dari language. It would be nice to have all known Bible translations in various languages available in Logos.

GregW

Obsidian - for note taking and bringing together notes and Kindle highlights. I also use it for managing my reading more flexibly than I can on Goodreads or Librarything.
Anki - for memorising vocabulary.
Nota Bene - for writing papers and citation/ bibliography management. Also for managing/searching PDF journal articles, web pages, etc for writing papers and research.
Zotero - for citation/bibliography management in short papers.
ATLA on Ebscohost for journals.
JSTOR for journals.
Academia.edu for papers (occasionally).
Kindle - for reading books I can’t get or don’t need in Logos.

My preference would not be for Logos to attempt to add the functionality of these apps, but to make access available through an API or similar, so that Logos can interoperate with other apps. This could, I think, open up an active plug-in community, like those that exist for apps like Obsidian. I’d probably revisit my own coding skills. For example, it would really add value if I could search my Logos library in Nota Bene alongside the PDFs it already indexes, and if I could connect my Logos notes and highlights to Obsidian in the way I can sync my Kindle highlights to it.

Frank Hodges

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283601#Comment_1283601

Can't say I'm supplementing Logos/Verbum ... for the first time in almost 20 years I'm an ex-Logosian! Accidentally deleted my big-boy Verbum, and took a pass on re-install (for now).

But my 3 supplements are my own Bible software (strangely designed just for me). Then, Kindle (90% of my Bible-related reading), and Accordance/Bibleworks for OL, plus Accordance graphics.

I don’t know if it would be in the spirit or within the rules of the forum, but is there any chance you could share your Bible software name with me? I’ve often wondered about it, and have been intrigued to ask.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283693#Comment_1283693

I don’t know if it would be in the spirit or within the rules of the forum, but is there any chance you could share your Bible software name with me? I’ve often wondered about it, and have been intrigued to ask.

Well, it's name is dbBible only because that's the name I gave it ... apologies if I implied someone elses.

It began back in 2005 as neural analyses of author syntax consistency, and identification of inconsistency, with expected author behavior (greek, and then hebrew). Then, I trained it for estimated dating patterns, theological structure patterns and so forth. It grew and grew, to include Bible texts, notes, imagery, logic mapping and so on today.

When I see the AI tools recommended for Logos (largely high-level querying and result summarization), I'd argue there's as much value in OL analytics using AI, especially with access to the New Orleans type greek databases.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283701#Comment_1283701

When I see the AI tools recommended for Logos (largely high-level querying and result summarization), I'd argue there's as much value in OL analytics using AI, especially with access to the New Orleans type greek databases.

While I agree with DMB, my interests are complementary -- while she digs into the details of the manuscripts, I prefer to dig into the paraBiblical parallels tracing the history of concepts which I can only do because of people with interests like hers.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283596#Comment_1283596

Rosie said, "I have occasionally used ChatGPT to ask a specific question, but I don't trust its answers and will follow up with Google and/or Logos."

I was just talking to another friend about that yesterday. Right now, the only way someone can really use AI is if they already know the correct answer so they can check what AI answers!

I don't need to know the correct answer, but I need to know enough about the subject matter that I can then take bits of what the AI spits out to me and go Google them for more information.

For example, I found ChatGPT helpful in planning a trip to France. I asked it what it would recommend for an itinerary in such-and-such a region. I'd probe it for what was interesting about cities X, Y, and Z. It would list all kinds of stuff, which I could then go and google to find fuller articles about them and the venue websites with actual info that would be helpful in planning a trip, such as what hours it was open, and reviews to help me decide if I really wanted to see it or not.

Mal Walker

This is a great list of resources MJ, thanks for compiling it together. As for, resources used to supplement Logos included:

Resources listed by MJ:

Anki: This is the big one. It's the current gold standard for flash card applications, and is used to memorise pretty much whatever I want, but the majority of the content is Greek vocab right now. Logos is nowhere near this. Free and open source.
Zotero: Slightly less important to me than Anki, but only by a little. The ability to export citations from logos as RIS data via clipboard into Zotero is a great time saver. It is even possible, though requires a few steps, to exports ones entire library into Zotero. Free and open source.
Microsoft Word/OneNote/Excel: All my documentation, essays, sermons, bible studies etc - both notes and full manuscripts etc are compiled using these programs. Tempted to play around with Obsidian, I love how it visually links your notes etc together.

Resources not listed my MJ:

STEP Bible: Great tool for doing work on a bible text, especially laity who have no formal training or access to bible software. This, along with bible arch, is often what I imagine a stripped down Logos experience could be like without all the extra 'features.'
NA28: Free online access to the NA28 edition of the Greek New Testament. Used it before buying on logos.
Keyman: Free and open source software for using alternative keyboard layouts, use this everyday to type in Greek. If you want biblical Greek or Hebrew keyboards, the suggested one is 'Galaxie Greek/Hebrew Mnemonic"
Xmind: Mindmaping software. I use this regularly particularly while researching to visually display all the information I am gathering. Very helpfully, and can export ot PGN, PDF etc for sharing with others. I'd love to see a mindmapping feature in Logos with similar exportation options.

Alternative worth mentioning that I've seen in action if Mindnode, but it is iOS only I believe.

CCEL: If I want to read the early church fathers (Ante-Nicene to Post-Nicene etc), or any other classical christian text (such as Calvin's Institutes etc), this is the site to go to. Excellent online navigation and display, PDFs etc.

New Advent: Online access to the Aquinas's Summa Theologiae.

The Gospel Coalition (US and Australian sites): Their essays are almost always the first place I go if I want to get a brief introduction to any topic/doctrine, even better then Wikipedia half the time! See here. Additional content or conversations that are happening in articles, course content etc is a wonderful resource.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283673#Comment_1283673

Nota Bene - for writing papers and citation/ bibliography management. Also for managing/searching PDF journal articles, web pages, etc for writing papers and research.

I recall this name for a software 40 years ago. I thought it does not exist anymore. Do you know how many users there are today?

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283751#Comment_1283751

Nota Bene - for writing papers and citation/ bibliography management. Also for managing/searching PDF journal articles, web pages, etc for writing papers and research.

I recall this name for a software 40 years ago. I thought it does not exist anymore. Do you know how many users there are today?

I don’t know how many users there are nowadays, but it’s currently on version 14, with a new version every couple of years. Currently on sale at 25% off. It often gets mentioned by academics I know.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1283693#Comment_1283693

For myself..... I use Logos Notes, Bible Books Explorer, The Outline Bible, Clippings, Exegetical Guide, Passage Lists, Thompsons Chain Reference and Sermon Builder the most and among other functions. I do make use of Favorites to keep track of url's I visit a lot.

As to outside Logos sources....

1. Ultra Search - Searches my past Word docs and PowerPoint (which I have too many years of).

2. Claude AI - I find Claude AI to be better than Google. I have compared many searches between the two and find Claude AI to be more to my liking.

3. I use Remember Me on my phone for memorization.

4. I do use Logos Search more since it's re-work in Logos 10.

Personally, I make extensive use of Notes, Clippings and Passage Lists as they work on the mobile app. The mobile app is one thing that sold me on Logos.