son of man
I am looking at Ezekiel 21:12. It refers to "son of man" and I want to see how it is used in context of the New Testament. A few questions. 1. How does the New Testament use Ezekiel 21:12? I used the NT use of OT explorer and found nothing. 2. Who is this "son of man" in Ezekiel? I read commentaries and found nothing other than a scant reference to the New Testament. It seems to be as a form of address. But I am not sure how that can be. I am not very good in the Greek Old Testament AKA LXX. Ezekiel was a godly priest, but Jesus Christ is the “great high priest, that is passed into the heavens” (Hebrews 4:14). Is there anything I can do in Logos Bible Software to address my questions?
Comments
-
MJ recommended yesterday for you to try your Factbook (Son of Man). Or me, your Lexham Bible Dictionary.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Yes. I took the thoughts of both of you all in my research and did that. That way of methodology was good and it gave me general information on who, what, when, and where but the how, why, so what and to what extent was not answered in materials nor answer my questions. Any further book suggestions or research queries are appreciated.
0 -
Well, if you did your Factbook, and maybe some dictionaries ... plus your commentaries, you're pretty much out of fuel. I'm assuming your library size.
Basically, you're looking at several problems: (1) aramaic 'son of man' / human, (2) prophesied 'son of man' in post-exilic writings, and interaction with earlier 'messiah' prophesies. Then, the typical thing you read is context and arguing this and that, taking into account when written, over-writes, and on and on.
Basically, it's speculation. By and large, Ezekiel speaks to aramaic 'person'/human, and corporate Israel, which mostly lands in the NT in Revelations prophesies. Daniel is the primary source of the cosmic 'Son of Man'.
In the library, you can get a good taste of opinion-ing:
And my favorites:
The Son of Man in the Parables of Enoch and in Matthew
The Messiah: A Comparative Study of the Enochic Son of Man and the Pauline Kyrios
As you can see, not a good answer.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Christian Alexander said:
I am looking at Ezekiel 21:12. It refers to "son of man" and I want to see how it is used in context of the New Testament. A few questions. 1. How does the New Testament use Ezekiel 21:12? I used the NT use of OT explorer and found nothing. 2. Who is this "son of man" in Ezekiel? I read commentaries and found nothing other than a scant reference to the New Testament. It seems to be as a form of address. But I am not sure how that can be. I am not very good in the Greek Old Testament AKA LXX. Ezekiel was a godly priest, but Jesus Christ is the “great high priest, that is passed into the heavens” (Hebrews 4:14). Is there anything I can do in Logos Bible Software to address my questions?
Run a search for "son of man" in Ezekiel? You'll find God addressing Ezekiel as "son of man" more than 90 times. Hint: Son of man is the human serving Sovereign LORD, even in exile.I've written about this here: https://allenbrowne.blog/2017/07/26/son-of-man-in-ezekiel/
As to how this related to Jesus' use of "son of man" in the NT (if at all) there's a lot of debate that will require you to look at Daniel 7 and Enoch as well. For a summary of the views, see:
- Hurtado, Larry W., Paul L. Owen, and Mark Goodacre, eds. “Who Is This Son of Man?”: The Latest Scholarship on a Puzzling Expression of the Historical Jesus. Vol. 390. Library of New Testament Studies. London; New York: T&T Clark, 2011.
For a recent study re Enoch (excellent, but not an easy read):
- Bauckham, Richard. “Son of Man”: Early Jewish Literature. Vol. 1. Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2023.
And for an older perspective on this issue:
- Zenos, Andrew C. The Son of Man: Studies in the Gospel of Mark. Edited by John Adams. The Short Course Series. New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1914.
If you search the topic index on my blog (link above), you'll find lots more on Jesus' usage of the term too. I'd suggest that the priestly link between Ezekiel and Jesus is only indirect (through Adam), not direct (through Levi). The temple is falling, so God doesn't call him son of Levi. The nation is falling, so God doens't call him son of Israel. But the exile doesn't mean God's rescue project for the world is over. When Sovereign LORD calls Exekiel a Human Descendant (son of man), he's referring to the authority God gave humantiy in the beginning.
Can you see how that might link to the heavenly authority over the earth extended to the Christ when God raised him out of death?
HTH.
0 -
All of these are available in Logos. Allen, it's helpful if you include links to the product description pages when this is the case. I've included them below. I know that Christian has limited funds so it might not help him, as he might not be able to buy any of these, but someone else perusing this thread might be interested. In fact, I've just bought the one by Bauckham, as I didn't know about it, and he's a good author I've read before.
Allen Browne said:As to how this related to Jesus' use of "son of man" in the NT (if at all) there's a lot of debate that will require you to look at Daniel 7 and Enoch as well. For a summary of the views, see:
- Hurtado, Larry W., Paul L. Owen, and Mark Goodacre, eds. “Who Is This Son of Man?”: The Latest Scholarship on a Puzzling Expression of the Historical Jesus. Vol. 390. Library of New Testament Studies. London; New York: T&T Clark, 2011.
For a recent study re Enoch (excellent, but not an easy read):
- Bauckham, Richard. “Son of Man”: Early Jewish Literature. Vol. 1. Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2023.
And for an older perspective on this issue:
- Zenos, Andrew C. The Son of Man: Studies in the Gospel of Mark. Edited by John Adams. The Short Course Series. New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1914.
0 -
Christian,
If you happen to have this resource: https://www.logos.com/product/16107/dictionary-of-bible-themes it will give you a fairly large number of scripture links that may give you some ideas to pursue.
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
All of these are available in Logos. Allen, it's helpful if you include links to the product description pages ...
Yes, I should have linked to the relevant pages. Was rushing this morning. Thanks for including the links.
0 -
Christian,
Another way to do this...If you have a LOGOS base package of Silver of above, you have access to The Bible Books Explorer (Interactive).
Using this tool I choose the "Intertext" option.
Clicked on Eze for Ezekiel.
This opened up a search window and automatically input this search string intertext:source:bible:Ezekiel.
I changed the range to only show the Gospels.
Then exported the found scriptures to a verse list (which I posted below).
[quote]
Mt 7:27 “The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
Mt 9:36 Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd.
Mt 23:12 “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
Mt 24:29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mt 25:32 “All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
Mt 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Mt 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
Mk 8:18 “Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember,
Mk 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light,
Mk 13:25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Lk 13:19 “It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and threw into his own garden; and it grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air nested in its branches.”
Lk 15:4 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?
Lk 19:10 “For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
Lk 21:25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
Jn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Jn 9:2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?”
Jn 10:8 “All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
Jn 10:11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Jn 10:16 “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
Jn 12:34 The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard out of the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?”
Now this is obviously NOT every place in the Gospels where "Son of Man" is mentioned, but it is (according to this tool) every place where any verse in Ezekiel is either Cited, Quoted, Alluded To, or has an Echo Of in them.
Then again, I may not be using this tool in the correct manner.
Does this help? If it does do you understand what I did?
Cheers!
0 -
Also note that the verse list will show a few different verses depending on which translation you choose to search through.
An example is if you choose to search the KJV you will also find Matt 18:11 which reads
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
However, this tool (the LOGOS tagging?) seems to not consider this to be a reference back to Ezekiel.
0 -
Spiritual speculation is a fun and (sometimes) rewarding preoccupation. I believe that you'll find that "son of man" was used as a Messianic title as far back as the book of Daniel, and that Jesus frequently referred to Himself as "the son of man" since, obviously (at least to me) he is the Messiah. Also, we are inherently, in a purely human way, sons of man. So, yeah.... none of that refers directly to Ezekiel's son of man reference.
"I read dead people..."
0 -
This is all very helpful. Thanks everyone. Why did Ezekiel receive the title "son of man" when Jeremiah and other prophets did not? Have there been any studies to that effect? I would like to see the theological ramifications of the meanings of 'son of man'. Jesus is now referred to as the "Son of God" and the "Son of Man." Even in Reformed circles, up until the late 1800s, the idea that He was the "Son of Man" alludes to His humanity. The title "Son of God" alluded to His deity. Today, the idea of the "son of man" is drawn from Daniel 7; nevertheless, the idea of the "son of man" in Daniel 7 refers to a divine, not a human, figure; hence, the term "son of man" is a reference to Christ's lordship and divinity. I believe that Ezekiel is alluding to his humanity. In addition to being a prophet, he is a man. It serves as a reminder of his depravity. Is there any academic efforts to this idea?
0 -
Christian Alexander said:
It serves as a reminder of his depravity
Be careful ... a Calvinist vocabulary does not help keep a question neutral. Your questions fit into the guidelines better when you don't offer your opinion or give a long background to your question but rather just ask the question.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Christian Alexander said:
... I believe that Ezekiel is alluding to his humanity. In addition to being a prophet, he is a man. It serves as a reminder of his depravity. Is there any academic efforts to this idea?
You're right in recognizing that son of man in Hebrew/Aramaic = human descendant = human. But human = depravity? That may be importing a specific theology into the text. Careful with that. The Sovereign LORD is calling for the help of his human servant, not reminding Ezekiel how evil he is. So no: I don't think you'll find much support for view that academcially.
Most of the scholarship is focused on Jesus' use of the phrase. If you really want to survey what scholars are saying, Delbert Burkett did his PhD on surveying and evaluating scholarship at the end of the century: Burkett, Delbert. The Son of Man debate: a history and evaluation. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1999.
Maurice Casey, Barnabas Lindars, and Geze Vermes are names you need to know (different opinions).
If you just want a quick overview, Hurtado's final chapter in ‘Who Is This Son of Man?’: The Latest Scholarship on a Puzzling Expression of the Historical Jesus (Library of New Testament Studies | LNTS) is ideal.
0 -
Can I ask for the quick overview section in Hurtado's final chapter in ‘Who Is This Son of Man?’: The Latest Scholarship on a Puzzling Expression of the Historical Jesus (Library of New Testament Studies | LNTS) to be pasted? I would like to see this in action?
0 -
Christian Alexander said:
Can I ask for the quick overview section in Hurtado's final chapter in ‘Who Is This Son of Man?’: The Latest Scholarship on a Puzzling Expression of the Historical Jesus (Library of New Testament Studies | LNTS) to be pasted? I would like to see this in action?
Hurtado’s final chapter begins on p 159, “Summary and Concluding Observations,” in “Who Is This Son of Man?”: The Latest Scholarship on a Puzzling Expression of the Historical Jesus, (London; New York: T&T Clark, 2011):
Part of my task in this concluding chapter is to note where we are in discussion of the thorny issues connected with ‘the Son of Man’ expression in the Gospels, especially in light of the foregoing contributions to this book. I will also offer a few observations of my own, and conclude by indicating what I think is the most reasonable proposal as to origins of this expression.
Towards the end (pp.175-176), he says:
We have already noted the proposal that ‘the son of man’ originated through Jesus identifying himself with the human-like figure of Dan. 7:13–14, and I have indicated why this seems to me unlikely. I propose, instead, that the expression simply reflected Jesus’ sense that he had a particular, even unique, vocation in God’s redemptive purposes. … I emphasize that this is a historical, and not a confessionally based, claim. …
The specifics of Jesus’ own sense of his vocation need not detain us, and it would require much more space than is available to explore adequately and defend any proposal about what it was. For the purpose of accounting for his use of the expression ‘the son of man’, it is sufficient to posit here that Jesus thought of himself as having a particular, probably even unique, divine vocation and mission, and that this sense of being a particular mortal called to a special role in the coming of the kingdom of God found expression in the use of that distinctive way of referring to himself.
When Larry spoke at a seminar I attended years ago, I had the opportunity to ask him if he had more detail on this proposal that would “require much more space.” It wasn’t something he’d pursued, so I took a few years (part time) to nut something else for myself.
I think he’s right: Daniel 7 is a part of it, but there’s a deeper reason, the meaning of the phrase even before Daniel 7. As you have already pointed out, what it meant to be a human descendant in Hebrew thought is markedly different from some theologies today.
0
