ὅχλος v. πλῆθος

George Battey

Hi. I'm studying Rev 19:1 ("I heard a great voice of much people in heaven" KJV). The "much people" (ὄχλου) leaves the impression that human beings compose the "multitude" rather than angelic beings.

My limited skills and knowledge with my Logos program and lexicons leaves the impression that ὅχλος is used only of human beings whereas πλῆθος us used of any number of things (fish = Jn 21:6; angels = Lk 2:13; as well as humans = Mk 3:7). Can anyone speak authoritatively on this? 

Is ὅχλος restricted only to human beings?

Do any extra-biblical writings use ὅχλος for other things besides humans?

Any help offered would be appreciated.

Best wishes.

Dave Hooton

George Battey said:

My limited skills and knowledge with my Logos program and lexicons leaves the impression that ὅχλος is used only of human beings

A query like lemma.g:ὄχλος NOT INTERSECTS (crowd OR multitude)  shows that SBLGNT uses only those word as glosses.

Modern English Translations use a variety of words like (rabble OR many OR number? OR mob OR group OR people OR crowd? OR multitude? OR throng OR company), but only (crowd? OR multitude? OR throng) are used in Revelation 19, with "multitude" being the most popular. Only  KJV bibles use "people".

lemma.g:ὄχλος in LXX bibles shows Dan 11:8 with "And their gods he will overturn along with their molten images and their hosts". That phrase comes from "καὶ τοὺς ὄχλους αὐτῶν" which Logos LXX shows was inserted i.e. is not present in the MT (Hebrew). That is the only clear example of its application to spiritual beings.

George Battey said:

πλῆθος is used of any number of things (fish = Jn 21:6; angels = Lk 2:13; as well as humans = Mk 3:7).

Agree. And it is applied similarly in the LXX.

So the use of ὄχλος in Revelation is open to interpretation. Time to consult the commentaries and decide if it applies to angels and/or redeemed humans!

EDIT:  Bible Word Study can can reveal the use of these lemmas, using Septuagint Translation as well as Translation section. The spark graph (top right) can show you their distribution and you can use that to filter the Guide for books where their usage is low  e.g. Revelation. Where you see "No equivalent" in the Septuagint graph, click to expand the sector and open the passages in LES to see their translation.

The Lemma section will show lexicons and their gloss.

George Battey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1286217#Comment_1286217

Thank you Dave!

This was only my second time to post a question on the forum and both times I have been "wowed" that anyone even read what I asked and then even took time to reply. In both cases my questions were answered and I am ... wowed! Thank you so much.