Coptic texts and their usability in biblical studies
What is a good source or method in Logos to find out the usability of Coptic texts in biblical studies?
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Logos basically has the Sahidic and Bohairic for the NT, minor prophets, Nag Hammadi, and gospel aprocrypha.
Good discussion at: https://www.logos.com/product/5965/sahidic-coptic-collection on usefulness. "Lastly, while English is related to Latin, in some important respects it is quite similar to the Sahidic. Where Greek has the definite article (the) but no indefinite article (a, an) and Latin and Syriac have no articles at all, Sahidic has both the definite and indefinite articles. Moreover, Sahidic article usage is quite similar to English."
I mainly use the 2 coptics in my NT layout, primarily how coptic worked off the koine. Not nearly as useful as the syriac resources. The english from the coptic can't be really trusted ... really need to know coptic (I don't).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Christian Alexander said:
find out the usability of Coptic texts in biblical studies?
This is not a well thought out question. The methods used are not language dependent - Coptic, Gothic, Sogdian, Aramaic, Greek ... - texts are all studied using the same methods. Their applicability is dependent upon the texts that a preserved/that you have access to and the questions you are trying to answer.
Did you look at the Coptic Scriptorium referenced in If you don't own a book and can't afford it, do this - Logos Forums?
Did you look for Coptic in the Factbook? That would tell you that there are New Testament apocrypha, early Bible translations, early church fathers writings which you would use like any other texts in those categories.
Did you use Google to see if the Coptic pope maintained a web site? e.g. Introduction to the Coptic Church - CopticChurch.net
Did you check Coptic subjects and texts in Wikipedia? (it is throwing an error for me at the moment).
What did a chat bot tell you? [quote]
Coptic texts are valuable resources for Christian studies, offering unique insights into the early development of Christianity and the diversity of thought present during that period. Here are some of the most studied Coptic texts:
- Coptic Bible: The Coptic translation of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, is one of the oldest and most extensively preserved versions. These translations, dating back to the 2nd century AD, were made from the Greek Septuagint (LXX) and offer scholars a way to compare and contrast different manuscript traditions.
- Nag Hammadi library: Discovered in 1945, this collection of Gnostic texts from the 4th century offers a window into a Christian movement that emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) as the path to salvation. The Nag Hammadi library contains various Gospels, Acts, and letters, providing scholars with a deeper understanding of early Christian diversity.
- Church Fathers: Writings by early Christian leaders like Saint Athanasius, Saint Cyril of Alexandria, and Saint Shenoute of Atripe are available in Coptic. Studying these texts sheds light on theological debates, church practices, and the development of Christian thought in Egypt.
- Monastic literature: A rich tradition of monastic writings in Coptic exists, including lives of saints, ascetic treatises, and liturgical texts. These writings provide valuable information about the practices and beliefs of early Egyptian monasticism.
The study of Coptic texts continues to shed light on the early Christian world. These resources offer unique perspectives on biblical interpretation, theological controversies, and the lived experience of Christianity in ancient Egypt.
Did you look for academic bibliographies? Kammerer-Bibliography.pdf (coptica.ch)
So what did you really want to know?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
This is not a well thought out question. The methods used are not language dependent -
I was taught differently. Different languages had different ways of analysis that were the norm. Is that an incorrect notion?
Did you check Coptic subjects and texts in Wikipedia? Yes error.
Factbook is not loading for me on the web app. My desktop is out of order.
I tried looking at google but got frustrated with all the different sects.
I wanted to see how a Coptic manuscript different from a koine Greek or Hebrew manuscript.
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Christian Alexander said:
I was taught differently. Different languages had different ways of analysis that were the norm. Is that an incorrect notion?
Linguistics and philology are single fields for all human languages. Philology has been very influential in scripture study.
Christian Alexander said:I wanted to see how a Coptic manuscript different from a koine Greek or Hebrew manuscript.
It is written in Coptic as opposed to Greek or Hebrew. Some are translations of Greek or Hebrew. Some are original works. What sort of difference were you expecting to find? You have likely used data from Coptic sources - Bible translation, Nag Hammadi texts, or church fathers - without noticing the footnote was to a Coptic text. You will find some sources say the Copts consider 1 Clement to be canonical. They do not say it is canonical but use it as if it were canonical - IIRC only on one day.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I am looking at the Gospel of Thomas. “Coptic” means “Egyptian." I have never done anything other than Greek or Hebrew. I want to know how the Gospel of Thomas is used in historical Jesus studies in the Gospel of John.
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Christian Alexander said:
I want to know how the Gospel of Thomas is used in historical Jesus studies in the Gospel of John.
In Logos Evans, Craig A., Robert L. Webb, and Richard A. Wiebe, eds. Nag Hammadi Texts and the Bible: A Synopsis and Index. Leiden; New York; Köln: E. J. Brill, 1993. is one essential resource. outside Logos, I have a five gospel harmony for which I can't remember either the exact title or the author that was where I started. Funk as an author may be a helpful source. Gemini is prone to incorrect titles but says:
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There are many scholars who have studied the relationship of the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of John to the historical Jesus. Here are a few prominent names:
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Bart Ehrman: A prominent New Testament scholar, Ehrman has written extensively on the historical Jesus and the development of early Christianity. He compares and contrasts the Gospels of Thomas and John in his book "The Gospel of Thomas: Summary and Why It's Not In the Bible" https://ehrmanblog.org/the-gospel-of-thomas-an-overview/.
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Helmut Koester: A German scholar who focused on early Christian texts and their historical context. Koester's work, "Thomas and Jesus" [ المصدر الذي تمت ترجمته من Koester, H. (1990). Thomas and Jesus. Sonoma, CA: Polebridge Press. ], explores the Gospel of Thomas as an independent source for understanding Jesus' teachings.
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James M. Robinson: Another key figure, Robinson was involved in the discovery and translation of the Nag Hammadi library, which includes the Gospel of Thomas. Robinson, along with Koester, co-edited the influential volume "Trajectories Through Early Christianity" [ المصدر الذي تمت ترجمته من Koester, H., & Robinson, J. M. (1971). Trajectories through early Christianity. Philadelphia: Fortress Press. ], which explored the diversity of early Christian thought as reflected in texts like Thomas and John.
These are just a few examples, and there are many other scholars who have contributed to this field of study. You can find more information by searching for these scholars' works or exploring resources on the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of John, and the historical Jesus.
Hint: try Logos, Google, bibliographies, and chat bots for a couple of hours before asking on the forums.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christian Alexander said:
I want to know how the Gospel of Thomas is used in historical Jesus studies in the Gospel of John.
One problem you run into, is that any Thomas <-> John comparison has to also account for synoptic matching. Logos has Hermeneia's Critical Q. It's interesting since it's matching up the synoptics along with John, Thomas, and OT/LXX matches ... in greek.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Christian Alexander said:
I tried looking at google but got frustrated with all the different sects.
Since I knew of only two churches - the Oriental Orthodox version: Coptic Orthodox Church and the Catholic version: Coptic Catholic Church - your comment made me curious. It took serious effort to find two smaller independent churches: a Protestant leaning Evangelical Church of Egypt and a social justice leaning National Evangelical Church - both of which are of modern origin. You might want to re-evaluate your Google search results.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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